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Recurring Opportunities coming soon

First post
Author
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2461 - 2016-05-30 18:55:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
SpartanXZero FoxNova wrote:



While I can understand the issues of what I can only assume come from the longer term veteran players who may in some way feel cheated of some sort of committed effort by this new addition to the game.

As a relatively new player to EvE, an speaking on behalf of the couple players that joined me in this venture. Having this little prompt both for game interaction as well boosting early skill progression to help those players focusing such. Is a welcoming addition, for myself an I'm sure many newer players just joining EvE.



Except new players who don't play every day are now training even slower than vets.Roll

If you want to boost early skill progression they can do what they used to do, just have sp train faster until a certain threshold is met.

SpartanXZero FoxNova wrote:

I'm looking forward to further incentives to this feature. I hope they're not huge bonuses, although I could see large bonuses for 1 time only achievements for things like attainment of set security status, faction standings, or 1st time completion of epic arcs.


I bet all the no-life-grinders are...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#2462 - 2016-05-31 04:09:01 UTC
Also relevant.

Building for instant gratification might be just a little nearsighted.

A signature :o

Cyrus Tybalt
Blap n Pew
#2463 - 2016-06-01 13:15:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyrus Tybalt
Change the bonus SP to be more similar to the Dust 514 model, where you get a set pool of bonus SP to earn every week or month doing certain acivites. (like killing rats)

You're already fine with players possibly earning 300.000 bonus SP per month with the current model.

So instead of forcing people to log on every single 22 hour period to acquire these bonus skillpoints, set up a "pool" of 300.000 SP for each account for a 30 day interval.

That way we at least have a choice if we want to do an intensive 1-day grind to get all 300.000 bonus SP at once (earning 10.000 SP per killed NPC), or spread the grind out over several days if we so choose.

I think most players can agree that being forced to log on every 22 hours or get completely left out kind of sucks, and it's also an artficial way of forcing players to change their daily eve activites (some of us don't earn or isk through ratting, missions or incursions but rather through industry and trading after all)
Ronin Stasarik
Original Gentlemen
#2464 - 2016-06-01 14:57:41 UTC
In my opinion.....
Getting new players into EVE creates content for all of us. Either directly as in more contact with players via PVP or chatting; or indirectly as in more players subscribing equals more money for CCP which means more development in game.
I think most of us can agree more players makes the game better.

Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually:
Can't compete with much higher SP players.
Can't compete with much higher ISK players.

New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues.
So, how to get new players ISK and SP commensurate with their efforts and keep them coming back, without upsetting Bitter Vets. Well that is impossible to do but here is the attempt CCP has made. Bless them for trying rather than resting on their laurels.

Have activities that low SP characters can do to make ISK.
Have activities that low SP characters can to do to get bonus SP.

The Vets take a lot for granted that rookies just don't know about , can't afford, or can't be botherd with...... The +5 training implant clone alt whatever that you use to get SP on an engineered skill training plan maximizing neural remaps , etc. That clone is making WAY more SP than any player with a blank clone who gets in his ship and goes to do missions or rat in space.
10k SP isn't forcing anyone to do anything. If you feel that way you need to go breathe some fresh air, maybe talk to a live person.

If you crawl onto the EVE forums just to post "No, Stupid, No." You've not helped anyone and made yourself look like a child.
Cyrus Tybalt
Blap n Pew
#2465 - 2016-06-01 15:59:14 UTC
Ronin Stasarik wrote:
In my opinion.....
Getting new players into EVE creates content for all of us. Either directly as in more contact with players via PVP or chatting; or indirectly as in more players subscribing equals more money for CCP which means more development in game.
I think most of us can agree more players makes the game better.

Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually:
Can't compete with much higher SP players.
Can't compete with much higher ISK players.

New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues.
So, how to get new players ISK and SP commensurate with their efforts and keep them coming back, without upsetting Bitter Vets. Well that is impossible to do but here is the attempt CCP has made. Bless them for trying rather than resting on their laurels.

Have activities that low SP characters can do to make ISK.
Have activities that low SP characters can to do to get bonus SP.

The Vets take a lot for granted that rookies just don't know about , can't afford, or can't be botherd with...... The +5 training implant clone alt whatever that you use to get SP on an engineered skill training plan maximizing neural remaps , etc. That clone is making WAY more SP than any player with a blank clone who gets in his ship and goes to do missions or rat in space.
10k SP isn't forcing anyone to do anything. If you feel that way you need to go breathe some fresh air, maybe talk to a live person.

If you crawl onto the EVE forums just to post "No, Stupid, No." You've not helped anyone and made yourself look like a child.


Actually, more players doesn't make eve better in every regard.

If you've been in- or seen a huge blob fleetfight, you'll see that "more" is not always "better"/more fun.

Until the UI and the game mechanics get better adapted to big fleetbattles, more players joining in certainly won't make the game better.
NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
#2466 - 2016-06-02 00:45:44 UTC
Ronin Stasarik wrote:
In my opinion.....
Getting new players into EVE creates content for all of us. Either directly as in more contact with players via PVP or chatting; or indirectly as in more players subscribing equals more money for CCP which means more development in game.
I think most of us can agree more players makes the game better.

Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually:
Can't compete with much higher SP players.
Can't compete with much higher ISK players.

New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues.
So, how to get new players ISK and SP commensurate with their efforts and keep them coming back, without upsetting Bitter Vets. Well that is impossible to do but here is the attempt CCP has made. Bless them for trying rather than resting on their laurels.

Have activities that low SP characters can do to make ISK.
Have activities that low SP characters can to do to get bonus SP.

The Vets take a lot for granted that rookies just don't know about , can't afford, or can't be botherd with...... The +5 training implant clone alt whatever that you use to get SP on an engineered skill training plan maximizing neural remaps , etc. That clone is making WAY more SP than any player with a blank clone who gets in his ship and goes to do missions or rat in space.
10k SP isn't forcing anyone to do anything. If you feel that way you need to go breathe some fresh air, maybe talk to a live person.

If you crawl onto the EVE forums just to post "No, Stupid, No." You've not helped anyone and made yourself look like a child.

You look like a child that can't read as CCP has already said this isn't a feature targeted at new players.

Just say NO to Dailies

Girdinus
The Ironfist Technologies
#2467 - 2016-06-02 04:28:03 UTC
Why is that my 2nd character that has an active training queue does not get 10,000 SP from the recurring opportunities?
Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
#2468 - 2016-06-02 04:59:23 UTC
Girdinus wrote:
Why is that my 2nd character that has an active training queue does not get 10,000 SP from the recurring opportunities?

You get 10000 SP per account
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#2469 - 2016-06-02 06:40:22 UTC
Cyrus Tybalt wrote:
Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually:
Can't compete with much higher SP players.


Doing what?

You do realize, once you trained mining V we both will mine at the same rate as everyone else? The beauty of EVE is that all skill level are the same for everyone.
If you can over yourself and your envy out of the way, EVE will be wonderful even for you.

Cyrus Tybalt wrote:
Can't compete with much higher ISK players.

New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues...


So can't the "veteran".

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#2470 - 2016-06-02 07:11:31 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Cyrus Tybalt wrote:
Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually:
Can't compete with much higher SP players.


Doing what?

You do realize, once you trained mining V we both will mine at the same rate as everyone else? The beauty of EVE is that all skill level are the same for everyone.
If you can over yourself and your envy out of the way, EVE will be wonderful even for you.


That's a pretty bad example. Even with Mining V there are other skills that go into it, like the ship skills that affect the hull bonus. That's not too bad for mining, but the list of skills that affect performance in combat ships is many months long. You have the hull skill for the bonuses, the skill to use T2 weapons, the support skills to vastly improve the weapons' effectiveness, drone skills for most ships, tanking skills, fitting skills, capacitor skills, navigation skills, possibly Cybernetics for implant, possibly skills for boosters, possibly propulsion jamming and/or ewar skills... You could spend the better part of a year just training to reach maximum effectiveness in one specific ship. And the moment that particular ship isn't what's needed, you either train another set of skills for a ship that is needed or you get left out.

Sure, there's a limit on how much SP can improve your ability to do any one thing, but that limit is very high and most players want to do more than one thing.
Cyrus Tybalt
Blap n Pew
#2471 - 2016-06-02 09:46:04 UTC
elitatwo wrote:

Cyrus Tybalt wrote:
Can't compete with much higher ISK players.

New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues...


So can't the "veteran".


quoting the wrong guy there mate. Blink
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2472 - 2016-06-02 10:00:01 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Cyrus Tybalt wrote:
Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually:
Can't compete with much higher SP players.


Doing what?

You do realize, once you trained mining V we both will mine at the same rate as everyone else? The beauty of EVE is that all skill level are the same for everyone.
If you can over yourself and your envy out of the way, EVE will be wonderful even for you.


That's a pretty bad example. Even with Mining V there are other skills that go into it, like the ship skills that affect the hull bonus. That's not too bad for mining, but the list of skills that affect performance in combat ships is many months long. You have the hull skill for the bonuses, the skill to use T2 weapons, the support skills to vastly improve the weapons' effectiveness, drone skills for most ships, tanking skills, fitting skills, capacitor skills, navigation skills, possibly Cybernetics for implant, possibly skills for boosters, possibly propulsion jamming and/or ewar skills... You could spend the better part of a year just training to reach maximum effectiveness in one specific ship. And the moment that particular ship isn't what's needed, you either train another set of skills for a ship that is needed or you get left out.

Sure, there's a limit on how much SP can improve your ability to do any one thing, but that limit is very high and most players want to do more than one thing.


The point is, you can only train a skill to level 5... So when people say "you can never catch up with older players", this simply is not true. If you pick any ship and decide that you want to have perfect skills for that ship and its fit, that is an achievable goal.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#2473 - 2016-06-02 12:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
Ronin Stasarik wrote:
Everyone who starts EVE nowadays has the same issues eventually:
Can't compete with much higher SP players.
Can't compete with much higher ISK players.

I've started playing EVE in 2011. Mind you, there were high SP players and high ISK players as well. Five years later, I still dont have skills to fly a Titan, nor do I have ISK to buy one. That's how EVE works.

Ronin Stasarik wrote:
New players are likely to quit the game because of these issues.

New players are likely to quit for the same reason as veterans - lack of content.
Markets suffer with general glut. Years ago, I had to sell 2 PLEX to buy myself a Machariel, and some more ISK to fit it. Now I could buy two of them for 1 PLEX, fit included.
Logistics in the largest game universe employs... like 1% of its population? That's so wrong.
Exploration is non-existent. I mean, you can explore something for yourself. Or you can open dotlan.
Of all the thing only PVP is relevant. Kind of. Wars in highsec are so uneventful. When wardecced, you just leave a corp or sit in dock for a week. Exciting! Btw, about 90% of subscribers live in highsec.

What CCP should do is to add more sand into the sandbox. And they are doing just that. Citadels are an excellent example of how the game should develop. It creates ripple on stagnant markets. It gives you the tools to build your home. The one you will cherish, the one you will fight for.

TLDR:
Citadels - good.
Dailies - bad.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2474 - 2016-06-02 15:18:09 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:

That's a pretty bad example. Even with Mining V there are other skills that go into it, like the ship skills that affect the hull bonus. That's not too bad for mining, but the list of skills that affect performance in combat ships is many months long. You have the hull skill for the bonuses, the skill to use T2 weapons, the support skills to vastly improve the weapons' effectiveness, drone skills for most ships, tanking skills, fitting skills, capacitor skills, navigation skills, possibly Cybernetics for implant, possibly skills for boosters, possibly propulsion jamming and/or ewar skills... You could spend the better part of a year just training to reach maximum effectiveness in one specific ship. And the moment that particular ship isn't what's needed, you either train another set of skills for a ship that is needed or you get left out.

Sure, there's a limit on how much SP can improve your ability to do any one thing, but that limit is very high and most players want to do more than one thing.


This is a very misleading statement. Almost every skill you cited is used across multiple hulls or every single hull. Tanking skills work for half of all ships at all times. And in a pinch, every bit of shield, armor, and structure buffer is a good thing, regardless of which one your primary tank is. Capacitor and navigation are used on every ship.

Heck, even racial ships are very useful. Caldari cruiser V works for their entire line of cruisers, it's half the requirement for their tech II cruisers, and half the requirement for a chunk of pirate vessels.

Turret optimal range, tracking, and falloff work across all turret sizes for three different races of turrets.

Even specific weapons work across multiple ships. Medium hybrids work for a selection of Caldari AND Gallente vessels, both cruiser and battlecruiser. Even for turrets that aren't shared by multiple races, you're talking about a weapon platform that can be used by a wide array of tech I and tech I cruisers AND battlecruisers.

Truth is that yes, you can spend a lot of time perfecting your skills for a specific vessel. But most, if not all of those skills will carry over to your next chosen hull. And not all skills absolutely need to be at level V immediately either. You can let some slide to level IV until you have a larger selection of vessels to chose from. When you have enough choices to keep you entertained, you can pick one to start getting V's in and go from there.


All that being an aside, however, to the primary discussion about recurring opportunities. The fact of the matter is that CCP can spin any logic to justify or amplify them. "Not enough logins, we should bump up the rewards". Or, "Logins went up (we won't ask what the actual reason was for this), so mission accomplished and RO are here to stay!"

I still say the best advice is to build a game people want to login for. That's the only viable long-term solution. Whether there's a real problem or if it's just perceived, that's up for debate. But in either case, the solution is "make sure people enjoy this experience".
Chatarina DeBeers
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2475 - 2016-06-02 17:35:14 UTC
I'm not part of the "powerblock". I'm just a low end player who likes to blow things up in wormhole space. Well, used to be, more like it. I'm just keeping tabs atm.

If there's one good thing about skill injectors and WoW XP dailies, it must be that noobies will buy shiny stuff sooner. And I do love that shiny stuff! ;)
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#2476 - 2016-06-02 22:18:00 UTC
Maybe some new Opportunity Skill Points would involve the first salvaging of the day or having the first Quafe of the day.
Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2477 - 2016-06-03 13:30:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Yun Kuai
Yun Kuai wrote:
The more I think about the prospect of "daily opportunities" the less I like the idea applying to the entire player base and I'll explain why in a moment. However, I do want to call out my support for this idea of rewarding players, but obviously in a different format.

Instead of delivering daily opportunities for the entire player base, evolve this program to better help with the NPE. When I first started playing this game almost 8 years ago, the appeal was in the difficulty of the game and that it was such a vast game with so many options to explore compiled with the thrill of learning how to do them. Fast forward to the new player experience and you have a system that better teaches new players how to get involved with the game, but for no actual reward to them. Thus, enter the opportunities reward system that rewards new players with ships, modules, isk, and skill books like the old tutorials of the past with the addition of SP.

Why would this help the NPE? The NPE is designed to get new guys learning the game at their own pace and giving them the option to get involved where they want to get involved. This means the new guys are going to try out different things; i.e. different aspects of the game. By giving them freebies that are useful like a venture for mining, a racial frig for pve/pvp, a racial frig for exploration and some basic supporting modules to actually give new players the ability to try the activity, you're setting them up to stick around as they can find something that they enjoy in the game and get started doing it much faster than previously before.

Where does the addition of SP come into play? The addition of SP would be the icing on the cake for new players. As they bounce around different career options in EvE, they're going to be picking up new ships and modules to get them started, but they still have to overcome the time barrier that is so unique to EvE. As in all things in life, the best things are the ones you work for. The NPE would now reward new players with SP so that when they complete the NPE opportunity and find that it's something they want to pursue in EvE they now have some extra SP to add to the skills they picked up; i.e. making them better at the activity which should directly correlate to more fun and the desire to keep logging in to play more. Or if on the other hand they finish a NPE opportunity and decide they don't like that activity, they have extra SP to invest into another activity that they do enjoy; i.e. no lost time and no hard feelings/feelings of wasted opportunities.

Overall what effects would this have on the NPE? You would have new players engaging in the game, setting them up with a very basic "survival kit" in game to get them started. They would have ships, modules, and isk to get them on their feet and also enough SP to get more involved in their preferred activity.

Are there any concerns of rewarding new players like this? The biggest concern would be limiting the SP gained. Lets say to complete all of the NPE Opportunities takes 1 month. The total SP rewarded added to the 1 month training should not be over 5mil SP so that alts can't be rolled and farmed as skill injectors. Regarding the ships, modules, and isk, personally I don't see these as being problematic at all. In fact, supporting new guys so that they stick around should be priority number one.

Now, why do I not like the idea of daily opportunities in EvE for the entire player base? The stated goal of this project is to get players logging in as it was measured that logging in to set skills in the past would lead more players to then stay logged in, undock, and do something in EvE. However, as many have already voiced their concerns, this project will only lead to people feeling this is a chore. The changes to the skill queue only highlight the inefficiency of EvE's non-pvp centric activities: there's not a prolific reason to log in, undock, and create some form of content. I’ve been playing this game now for almost 8 years and there have only been a few moderate changes to the PvE content, but even then the content remains 90% the same. Mining hasn’t changed at all, relic/data sites got a makeover on the UI; read mini game, but the overall concept is still the same, missions haven’t changed at all minus the burner missions that never got filled out, industry and PI are still 100% set up, walk away, finish job, collect, and repeat, and the list goes on. Dailies are not dangling a carrot in front of you; they’re poking you in the back with a sharp point while you’re walking in chains. The point is dailies aren’t addressing the issue why players aren’t logging in. It doesn’t have to do anything with setting skills at this point in the game’s 13 year lifespan, but more in line with the fact that many activities are outdated and haven’t received the updates needed to keep them interesting to the “veterans”.


I'm reposting this here again in the thread because it needs to be seen. I've bolded the final statement that really states why these dailies are such a bad idea. CCP you had a great opportunity here to completely update missions, mining, PI, industry, trading, incursions, exploration, complex/deds, salvage, hacking, analysing, and every other pve experience. Had you done this in conjunction with releasing dailies, you would have finally introduced something that, I dare say, most of your player base would all agree was good/healthy for the game. People would willingly log in for the content and appreciate the reward for being active; read a win win for everyone, but you took the lazy route and just introduced dailies because it's cheap and quick to do Ugh

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Drammie Askold
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#2478 - 2016-06-03 22:27:10 UTC
One thing I had not realised is that the 22hr limit means that after one opportunity you cannot perform the same one until 22 hours are up; not as I had thought that you had 22 hours to complete the task or the opportunity had gone. My objection about this was misplaced.

As the blessed St. Reptilicus said "Some days you can't get a drink on the cuff anyplace."

Circumstantial Evidence
#2479 - 2016-06-04 16:57:36 UTC
Thus far I've managed to avoid participating in this feature, yet I'm still active on various characters, doing whatever it is that they do, but since that stuff does not include shooting NPC's, it goes unrewarded... except for the rewards of the miscellaneous activities themselves.
Tantaris Taron
RHP Mining Company
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#2480 - 2016-06-04 18:14:21 UTC
sorry but this is stupid. It is just like any other random MMORPG now. I wanted to play EVE BECAUSE of the skill training time.
and almost 5H (10,000) Skill per 22 H/NPC Kill? Who's craqsy idea was that. Please quit this. I will see how this is doing and if it couse to mutch trouble in the game balance I dop not know what I will do next. Evil