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[Citadels Release] Capital and Fighter Transition

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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#81 - 2016-04-28 08:05:17 UTC
Michael Bone wrote:
PAPULA wrote:
What about light fighters skill ?
I have fighters to level 4, but after the patch i will not be able to use fighters ? if i understand that correctly ?

Now i have to buy the skill first, earn 100 million isk and then train it to level1 to be able to use the same item as i was before ?
Ugh

That's just wrong.


This. Exactly. What happened to training Destroyers or Battlecruisers skills ages ago and being awarded all the faction skills when that change was made? I try to stay far away from the pathetic "Ohh noooooes ccplease gief us sp because extended downtiem!" but seriously, you owe me Light Fighters V. And everyone else who you screwed over with this bull.

I mean, clearly this is a cool way to see if people will drop some extra USD on skill injectors to get the skill back up after you nuked it. Right on there, and please let me know what percentage rise you see in plex sales, and how many accounts who buy the plex end up injecting sp to cover the new skill needed to fly our decade old ships. That would be an interesting metric.

GabrielFyre wrote:


As has happened many times over the past decade...this doesn't seem like something experience should let you be surprised about.


Naturally. Well, since CCP has taken a dump all over us before, we shouldn't get butthurt about it now. Thanks for your insight.

Sorry but they aren't the same decade old ships - They are far worse with much less usefulness than what we had 24 hours ago.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#82 - 2016-04-28 08:08:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Michael Bone wrote:
PAPULA wrote:
What about light fighters skill ?
I have fighters to level 4, but after the patch i will not be able to use fighters ? if i understand that correctly ?

Now i have to buy the skill first, earn 100 million isk and then train it to level1 to be able to use the same item as i was before ?
Ugh

That's just wrong.


This. Exactly. What happened to training Destroyers or Battlecruisers skills ages ago and being awarded all the faction skills when that change was made? I try to stay far away from the pathetic "Ohh noooooes ccplease gief us sp because extended downtiem!" but seriously, you owe me Light Fighters V. And everyone else who you screwed over with this bull.

I mean, clearly this is a cool way to see if people will drop some extra USD on skill injectors to get the skill back up after you nuked it. Right on there, and please let me know what percentage rise you see in plex sales, and how many accounts who buy the plex end up injecting sp to cover the new skill needed to fly our decade old ships. That would be an interesting metric.

GabrielFyre wrote:


As has happened many times over the past decade...this doesn't seem like something experience should let you be surprised about.


Naturally. Well, since CCP has taken a dump all over us before, we shouldn't get butthurt about it now. Thanks for your insight.

Sorry but they aren't the same decade old ships - They are far worse with much less usefulness than what we had 24 hours ago.

PAPULA; They aren't close to the same item you used before, what you used before was actually useful. You will need to train that new skill to 4 and outlay more isk for T2 light fighters to get anything close to useful - T1 versions only use is in making T2's.

Edit; Seems when "we got ganked" is the server response, it manages to double post and one is even a half post.. Not bad going.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Celly S
Neutin Local LLC
#83 - 2016-04-28 10:13:50 UTC
Michael Bone wrote:
PAPULA wrote:
What about light fighters skill ?
I have fighters to level 4, but after the patch i will not be able to use fighters ? if i understand that correctly ?

Now i have to buy the skill first, earn 100 million isk and then train it to level1 to be able to use the same item as i was before ?
Ugh

That's just wrong.


This. Exactly. What happened to training Destroyers or Battlecruisers skills ages ago and being awarded all the faction skills when that change was made? I try to stay far away from the pathetic "Ohh noooooes ccplease gief us sp because extended downtiem!" but seriously, you owe me Light Fighters V. And everyone else who you screwed over with this bull.

I mean, clearly this is a cool way to see if people will drop some extra USD on skill injectors to get the skill back up after you nuked it. Right on there, and please let me know what percentage rise you see in plex sales, and how many accounts who buy the plex end up injecting sp to cover the new skill needed to fly our decade old ships. That would be an interesting metric.

GabrielFyre wrote:


As has happened many times over the past decade...this doesn't seem like something experience should let you be surprised about.


Naturally. Well, since CCP has taken a dump all over us before, we shouldn't get butthurt about it now. Thanks for your insight.


While I likely wouldn't phrase it and/or speculate as to the reasons behind it in the same way, I do agree with the spirit of the questions and I am curious in this instance what happened to the "if you could use it before the patch, you'll be able to use it after the patch" aspect of things that has long been the standard when changes were made to things, or to the skill requirements for them.

it seems to me that these changes would have followed the same deployment path or refactoring path that previous similar changes have followed.

just my opinion though.

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Cyberstrike2027
Atlas Capital
#84 - 2016-04-28 11:21:44 UTC
This whole Fighters/Light Fighters thing seems totally ridiculous, when they should really be ONE SINGLE skillbook.

I have Fighters V, and what was Fighter Bombers I, as of now, my carriers sit teethless because I can use Heavy Fighters if I had a super, but I can't use Light/Support Fighters, despite having Fighters V! How stupid!

They already scrapped the Force Auxiliary skill, now they just have to come to their senses and merge Fighters and Light Fighters into the same book and refund anyone who has trained both. That would then satisfy the "If you can use it before, you can use it now" mantra, but still allows the support fighters to use a support fighters' skillbook, since they're completely new.
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#85 - 2016-04-28 11:59:00 UTC
So, rather than put the drones into the station that your carrier is docked in, you put them in some station that you can't even dock at, without an option to reset the "Home" system of your character? What was that even based on?
Cyberstrike2027
Atlas Capital
#86 - 2016-04-28 13:07:29 UTC
Laendra wrote:
So, rather than put the drones into the station that your carrier is docked in, you put them in some station that you can't even dock at, without an option to reset the "Home" system of your character? What was that even based on?


This still confuses me. Luckily my home station was just the system next door. But I've had ships that get altered in an update and have an overfilled cargohold or something and it just doesn't let me undock till I sort it out.

Why couldn't this have been done with carriers fighter bays? Multiply all the fighters, overfill all the fighter bays, and then make the players sort out their drones ON BOARD their carriers before they can undock. Why on earth take all the drones to a different station potentially the other side of the galaxy??
Michael Bone
Viper-Squad
Pandemic Horde
#87 - 2016-04-28 17:01:19 UTC
Cyberstrike2027 wrote:
Laendra wrote:
So, rather than put the drones into the station that your carrier is docked in, you put them in some station that you can't even dock at, without an option to reset the "Home" system of your character? What was that even based on?


This still confuses me. Luckily my home station was just the system next door. But I've had ships that get altered in an update and have an overfilled cargohold or something and it just doesn't let me undock till I sort it out.

Why couldn't this have been done with carriers fighter bays? Multiply all the fighters, overfill all the fighter bays, and then make the players sort out their drones ON BOARD their carriers before they can undock. Why on earth take all the drones to a different station potentially the other side of the galaxy??


This too. I was silently cursing the powers that be when I couldn't find the thousands of drones which were in my suitcase. Fortunately, my clone was set to Jita because of some sov shenanigans, so that saved me a run to drop off a load of Geckos which are no longer worth using.

If not for the good fortune, I'd have screamed about that too. I haven't been on eve for a week and a half, and come to find out I was given a whole 24 hours notice!!!!
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#88 - 2016-04-28 18:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
For what it is worth ...

It would have been a lot more convenient to have shoved them all into the redeeming system.

I should have logged-out / set my clone to Jita. I now have several billion ISK worth of drones and fighters to move.
Michael Bone
Viper-Squad
Pandemic Horde
#89 - 2016-04-28 18:48:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Bone
Tau Cabalander wrote:
For what it is worth ...

It would have been a lot more convenient to have shoved them all into the redeeming system.

I should have logged-out / set my clone to Jita. I now have several billion ISK worth of drones and fighters to move.


Agreed, though I'm not sure that's possible with their tools. Really anything other than what they did would have been better.
IraS PL
Halliburton Heavy Industries
#90 - 2016-04-30 16:50:41 UTC
I posted this in the issues but did not get a response. Let's see if this helps:

You reduced the material requirements but not the construction time for the fighters, it takes 12 hrs to make a squadron....
Please consider reducing this accordingly...
MaverickScot
Diminishing Returns.
#91 - 2016-05-01 18:25:09 UTC  |  Edited by: MaverickScot
What you can fly before, etc. While this is true why would I fly my Thanatos without weapons. I have to train to use my firblogs again and I have to pay for the privilege to do so. I'm assuming this is to force people back into sub caps as after the nerf to jump range then the added jump fatigue I might just sell the carrier.

Hate what has happened to carriers and I just returned to the game after an 18 month sabbatical. Next you'll be taking my POS's off of me.... Oh wait.

What happened to all my drones? Did they just turn into firblogs that I can't use? They are not in the station with my carrier.

Edit. Found the drones as pre the original post. Begs the question. Given my carrier is in low sec where it is based out of why would you move all my drones to hi-sec. Now I need to make another hi - lo transition to get them back to where they are needed, geez.
Michael Bone
Viper-Squad
Pandemic Horde
#92 - 2016-05-02 21:18:21 UTC
MaverickScot wrote:
What you can fly before, etc. While this is true why would I fly my Thanatos without weapons. I have to train to use my firblogs again and I have to pay for the privilege to do so. I'm assuming this is to force people back into sub caps as after the nerf to jump range then the added jump fatigue I might just sell the carrier.

Hate what has happened to carriers and I just returned to the game after an 18 month sabbatical. Next you'll be taking my POS's off of me.... Oh wait.

What happened to all my drones? Did they just turn into firblogs that I can't use? They are not in the station with my carrier.

Edit. Found the drones as pre the original post. Begs the question. Given my carrier is in low sec where it is based out of why would you move all my drones to hi-sec. Now I need to make another hi - lo transition to get them back to where they are needed, geez.


Clearly, you ought to be penalized for taking a break from EVE. This isn't a game, it's a full time job. Didn't you get that memo? Anyone who isn't watching the forums for upcoming changes and playing on the test server is a pleb and deserves to take it up the tailpipe.
~~ CCP Nopoors

(Dramatization)
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#93 - 2016-05-02 23:57:31 UTC
Michael Bone wrote:
MaverickScot wrote:
What you can fly before, etc. While this is true why would I fly my Thanatos without weapons. I have to train to use my firblogs again and I have to pay for the privilege to do so. I'm assuming this is to force people back into sub caps as after the nerf to jump range then the added jump fatigue I might just sell the carrier.

Hate what has happened to carriers and I just returned to the game after an 18 month sabbatical. Next you'll be taking my POS's off of me.... Oh wait.

What happened to all my drones? Did they just turn into firblogs that I can't use? They are not in the station with my carrier.

Edit. Found the drones as pre the original post. Begs the question. Given my carrier is in low sec where it is based out of why would you move all my drones to hi-sec. Now I need to make another hi - lo transition to get them back to where they are needed, geez.


Clearly, you ought to be penalized for taking a break from EVE. This isn't a game, it's a full time job. Didn't you get that memo? Anyone who isn't watching the forums for upcoming changes and playing on the test server is a pleb and deserves to take it up the tailpipe.
~~ CCP Nopoors

(Dramatization)
Funny that, it was after using carriers on the test server I decided to just sell all the ones I owned. So far it looks like I made the right decision.

Shame about all the wasted SP

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#94 - 2016-05-03 15:23:04 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Funny that, it was after using carriers on the test server I decided to just sell all the ones I owned. So far it looks like I made the right decision.

Shame about all the wasted SP


I hear Skill Extractors are a thing.

On-topic, it seems to me that the Fighters skill is now the capital equivalent of Drones. You want to use 5 drones you have to train Drones 5, right? So if you want to fly 5 squadrons of fighters, you train Fighters 5.

It isn't so much taking something away. But rather more like adding a new prerequisite.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
MaverickScot
Diminishing Returns.
#95 - 2016-05-04 13:45:18 UTC
Michael Bone wrote:
MaverickScot wrote:
What you can fly before, etc. While this is true why would I fly my Thanatos without weapons. I have to train to use my firblogs again and I have to pay for the privilege to do so. I'm assuming this is to force people back into sub caps as after the nerf to jump range then the added jump fatigue I might just sell the carrier.

Hate what has happened to carriers and I just returned to the game after an 18 month sabbatical. Next you'll be taking my POS's off of me.... Oh wait.

What happened to all my drones? Did they just turn into firblogs that I can't use? They are not in the station with my carrier.

Edit. Found the drones as pre the original post. Begs the question. Given my carrier is in low sec where it is based out of why would you move all my drones to hi-sec. Now I need to make another hi - lo transition to get them back to where they are needed, geez.


Clearly, you ought to be penalized for taking a break from EVE. This isn't a game, it's a full time job. Didn't you get that memo? Anyone who isn't watching the forums for upcoming changes and playing on the test server is a pleb and deserves to take it up the tailpipe.
~~ CCP Nopoors

(Dramatization)



An interesting dilemma indeed. Now if this is a full time job then it should be paying me for such things as housing, cars, food, etc. Can I be given the relevant forms to make these expense claims? ;-P
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#96 - 2016-05-15 06:05:33 UTC
Any word on when you are going to refund the Force Auxiliary skills?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Ixazaluoh
SatchTek
#97 - 2016-05-15 12:03:50 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Any word on when you are going to refund the Force Auxiliary skills?

Yes, I too would like to know when the skill points and Isk will be returned.
Gaius Clabbacus
Control Alt Delve
Goonswarm Federation
#98 - 2016-05-24 12:28:32 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:


Force Auxiliary Skills
We were planning to refund all isk spent and sp trained in the now defunct Force Auxiliary skills along with this conversion. However we have encountered some complications that mean that we do not feel confident delivering this tomorrow. This will still happen in the coming weeks (Or at the latest by the next release). Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause!


Any timeline on refunding those FAX skillbooks (and SP)?
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2016-05-31 14:30:06 UTC
Shadow fighter bombers were multiplied by 4 if you had any.
My question is why the BPCs weren't changed to drop x4 as well since you'll now need 6x as many shadows as before. Ugh