Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It's like hitting rewind on the whole conversation. Seriously, just go back and read the thread, or we will just do this for another 100 or so pages. Some times it feels like you are a Teckos alt who has had a stroke, sometimes just underinformed because you can't be arsed to read.

I don't want to hunt cloaked ships. That is irrelevant. Cloaked ships should be huntable, because they are in space doing things that people want to keep them from doing. It should be an option. Simply tolerating your enemy until he decides to attack is stupid, and invalidates home defender as a specialized profession for those so inclined.

Yes. You can see probes on d-scan. And it's completely reasonable that anyone operating in system be forced to hit dscan every 5 seconds to maintain their situational awareness and safety.... So long as the cloaked does too. If he just gets to sit there and impose one of the singular most asinine game dynamics ever devised with no cost or obligation of his own, then no. You seem very determined that fitting a cloak exempt a hunter from all the tedious parts of playing EVE while leaving all the parts that involve winning an encounter by default. Why is that?

You are the one confusing and conflating optional modules with universal game conditions. If you have some sort of lesson plan concerning modules, cloaks, and game concepts you might consider reviewing that material before offering to instruct others on it.

If you're in null you should be in a group that's big enough to be in a standing fleet. Words to live by... Now apply that same stance to your camping cloaker. Either the defense is present and active, or it's not. You can't use it's presence to justify cloaks and it's absence to victim shame your targets. Either everyone needs a fleet, or it's ok to create conditions where solo play is viable. Pick a side.

And good job finally understanding how the " cloaked ships are harmless" argument is supposed to work. I knew you would get there eventually. It relies on the idea that Intel is absolutely without value (false), that combat initiative is absolutely without value (really false), and that not doing direct damage with guns justifies unbreakable security (demonstratably false in several whole ship lines or just by voluntarily turning off your guns), but at least it shows you are paying attention.

While you are at it, if you want to have a real conversation you should stick to discussing the subject. Trying to discredit me by calling into question my combat record, where I play, how I play, etc... Just says you can't deal in reason or adequately answer the holes in your own 'logic'. Also, if you had read the thread (yes, that again) you would know quite a bit more about me, including that this is my main and only character. I have played everywhere, but my focus isn't on PvP at all. Your focus on killboards puts the lie to your own claims of being focused on PvE, but that's not really relevant to answering your arguments.

This.

Still this and always this.


They want all the reward and none of the risk as it always has been, as it always shall be.


Has the "local has nothing to do with this" cherry been trotted out yet?

I see... You are still confused.


It. Does. Not. Matter. That. You. Can't. Shoot. While. Cloaked.


You are in space, and someone wants to shoot you. Welcome to EVE. That's all the excuse needed to be hunted down and shot.

More to the point you can do things that others want to stop you from doing, like gathering Intel.

You know what someone in a station isn't going to do? Pop out behind you and start shooting. You know because you can go look. They can't see the grid. They can't run probes. They enter space at a known point, which can be monitored.

You accuse me of having an agenda, but you are the one reaching desperately for straws in an attempt to find some logic to make the situation ok, leaving cloaked ships with a 100% lock on combat initiative and a free ride for all eternity.

The only thing that has ever been proposed is that the cloaked ship be susceptible to some form, any form, of non-consensual hostile action. That it not be able to have its way for all time without effort. For all the yammering about safe ratters and whatever, it's still somehow ok for a cloak in the exact same system to be totally safe while people actively hunt it. Not want to hunt it from 5 systems over- but right there, guns ready, effort expended in futility hunt it.

Don't talk about anything else but that ship. Apply all those arguments you want to spew about how safe the guy you want to shoot is because he spent the effort of at least staying awake and at the keyboard to your cloaker who does not do even that much.

No one is asking for an instant uncontested way to banish cloaks. If he is in a fleet then congratulations! You have found a fight. If he isn't in a fleet then he is no more deserving of safety than the guy afking in an anom, or listening for the gate sound while tabbed, or whatever other afk or semi afk task you want to name.

What a ratter is doing justifies nothing about that cloak. No matter how much you want to not explode justifies nothing about that cloak. Either justify 100% safety in hostile space with active hunters expending time and effort to find you, or admit you just want the free ride.

stuff

The conditions that break a cloak are well known and completely under the pilots control. There is no danger to a cloaked ship that the pilot does not choose to risk.

By every measure cloaked ships do not meet any standards for risking non-consensual PvP.

Third- ships with cloaks die. So what?

This is why it is possible to engage a cloak with 100 active hunters in system and go AFK for the rest of the day in safety.

You know what someone in a station isn't going to do? Pop out behind you and start shooting.

Ahhh this old chestnut.

Yes, no effort. No effort to get into the system. No effort avoiding gate camps. No effort putting the ship together. No effort learning to use the ship effectively. No effort in setting up safes and perches/pings.

Yep, no effort at all.

GMAFB.

WTF? Sure they can. Jesus, try living in NPC NS or LS. Happens all the time.

First I never said anything about keeping local clear. Whether local is clear or not does not negate its usefulness as a source of intel.

Second, I keep talking about ratting and null because that is where AFK cloaking generally takes place AND people whine about it. Nobody cares about AFK cloaking in HS. Some might care in LS, but then again most people who routinely live in LS have already HTFU so they don’t come and whine about it. You keep forgetting this is a thread about AFK cloaking not simply cloaking….although it is abundantly clear you have an issue with cloaks in general even people who are ATK.

And I see we you are still stuck on this notion of “[t]here is still no way to compel a cloaked ship to put itself at risk”. So what? As I have pointed out to maintain that safety means the player in question severely limits his actions in game. To be precise, to maintain this “flawless safety” I have to sit at a safe, and do pretty much nothing other than D-scan, **** up local, maybe play with contracts and that is about it. I warp to a gate, anomaly, station, etc. I increase my risk and in some cases dramatically. If a player wants to be that safe…why should you care? Because he is in space? He has taken measures to obtain that level of safety which come at some cost…so why not? And your claim that a cloaked ship hunting other players is safer than a station. That is just completely untrue.

Now for a few of your more silly statements….



Yes, but like a brain dead nincompoop you keep ignoring the costs that come with that choice.



I’m sorry Mike, but that is just a complete and utter lie. Even you admit it when you write,



If they do not meet the risk of non-consensual PvP how come you wrote that sentence?



Yes, but that player is literally a threat to no one. And once it is determined that he is very likely AFK…go about your business. Use a standing fleet. Get on comms, and call for help if on the off chance he does come back to the Keyboard.