Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Just make it so that it nullifies cap recharge while active and super slowly drains it. In such a way its easy to balanced based on ships cap level.

I have no idea why people are talking about cynos in this thread - as it is clearly about AFK cloaking. There are only two solutions

1) Make cloak time based ( drain or reactivation )
or
2) Bring "Away From Keyboard" kick into play.

You mean well, but everyone should have the obligation to ensure their own safety. What you propose isn't a counter to the cloaked camp, merely tolerance of it with a higher bar to entry on its success.

That includes the guy hiding under the cloak.

If people actually are ignoring hostiles and making no effort to deal with them, then the permanent cloak isn't needed to hunt them. If they are making those efforts, then your point is invalid and they don't deserve to have those efforts made meaningless by a newbie ship with two modules fit.

The issue isn't just about null, nor about ratting. That's just one exceptionally egregious symptom- the perfect storm where things align on both sides of the issue to make for exceptionally bad play. People want to drag all of the attention to that to hide other issues it causes and protect their pet gameplay from effort and risk.

Lol, ok.

Perhaps you missed the vital uses they are put to in keeping titans alive? How about the vital fleet functions served in all areas of space by uncounterable scouts. The wormhole shenanigans?

It's not just about null, not just about ratting. It's really not even about being afk. 'afk' cloaking is symptomatic of the bad design inherant in cloaks being both 100% effective and unbreakable (within their specific design parameters), and eternal.

I would say to go read the thread, where all of this was discussed exhaustively, only to have it all dragged right back to 'screw balance so long as null ratters die'.

Oh Mike, the reason we keep talking about nullsec ratting is because in all of these 300 pages, only people doing ratting in nullsec (especially sov-null) seem to have problems with cloaks. I haven't seen anyone who lives in highsec or lowsec complaining about cloaks. Neither has anyone from w-space. So somehow this "huge" problem only affects the minority of players? Or maybe the problem isn't in cloaks at all...

Your list shows you didn't read.

Every point on it was brought up in defense of cloaks. Can't change cloaks because someone logging in a titan for the first time in 3 years might die- they need the cloak to evade hunters that have waited literally years for them. Apparently.

Wormholes- every ship. *every* ship has a cloak as a mandatory part of its fit.... You don't see that as a sign of something broken? In a PvP focused game where flipping weapons can be optional. Cloaks come even before a probe laujcher. Ships are modular to enable and support diverse tactics. When one of those modules becomes mandatory regardless of any other factors in the meta... You really don't see an issue?

3. Those Intel networks that twist so many panties? The backbone is cloaked scouts. Eyes on your wormholes.... Cloaked scouts. Everywhere it's considered important, your Intel is cloaked scouts. Guess what... The enemy should be able to hunt those scouts. Of course, that would just break the game! Not really, but it seems that Intel should stay cheap and easy for those people.

Local isn't a part of the balance on cloaks. It may or may not go to the OA, but that just means that people who 'do it right' don't fly without a confirmed functioning OA in the area... Which will likely be done through the use of a cloaked scout that the enemy can't use because it's not their OA. If anything, it makes it worse for hunters. But whatever.

Are you honestly saying it's ok that a single unsupported ship several jumps from friendly space should have zero obligation beyond pushing a magic button and moving slow be perfectly safe until the moment it chooses to strike? You advocate that every single ship operating outside of high sec have a complete support fleet on standby... *except* the cloaked one that everyone wants to hunt down but is instead forced to tolerate because *reasons*? Which is it? Everyone in fleets all the time, or occasional solo action ok for everyone? If anyone should be ok for a bit unsupported it should be the guy in his home system right? Either they are responsive to threats, or they are not. The defense you seem to be using is that cloaks are needed due to responsive defense, yet locals are undeserving of that defense because there is no responsive defense. Just say what you really mean, which is everyone should be responding to your threat, while you are perfectly safe from theirs....

Sorry, but what? You brought up titans first, not me. They're a non issue given you should have a strong enough fleet and intel when flying something that substantial.

Lets keep using your astounding logic.



Every ship uses a warp drive. You don't see that as a sign of something broken?
Every pilot uses stations to dock, you don't see that as a sign of something broken?
Every pilot outside of WHs uses local chat, you don't see that as a sign of something broken?
Every pilot in null alliances use out of game forums/websites, you don't see that as a sign of something broken?
Every ship repairs damage *EVERY SHIP* every ship does it, so something must be broken!!!

You will never, NEVER die to a cloaked ship if you're paying attention to the tools in the game. You're just upset you can't do semi-AFK PvE-ing as well. Sorry kid, I don't support that.

Given that cloaked ships can't hurt anyone, no I have no problem. They are 100% avoidable to anyone paying attention. Scout ships and exploration are parts of this game. Have you ever actually spent a week roaming undocked? If so, I find it very hard to believe you would say that its 100% safe with a straight face.

PvE-ers in nullsec who are actually paying attention, however, are 100% safe. You should be upset about that.

To which I offered:


AFK cloaking is a symptom of the bad design of cloaks. They are problematic in many ways, this is just one very annoying one because it's an area of space that is supposed to benefit from collaborative efforts aimed toward empire building. There is a wide gulf between enabling stealth gameplay and making stealth 100% effective and unbreakable with the exception of controlled circumstances.

What Null Sec is, or what it should be... is supposed to be determined by those who take it. It's player housing on a huge scale. You want some Null to be a risk free PvP hunting ground? Go take a piece and make it that way. Others don't agree, and they have just as much right to strive for their vision as you do yours.




That you can do that is wrong. Not the part where you can damage them by disrupting their industry... The part where you can do it while AFK for a whole week at zero danger to yourself at any time. It is equally wrong that they let it happen--- but be honest, do they have a legitimate recourse other than simply tolerating your presence? Should your mad fitting skills of a utility high and 100 CPU guarantee your safety even when they bring in active hunters and fleet up to deal with your implied threat?

I'm sure it is hilarious to you. Which is the real core of the problem, because the Devs are just like you.

If you disagree with the point about Titans, then you disagree with people who support your position.

I am aware the thread is 300 pages, I was here for almost all of it, and for years previous in the many other threads of similar content.

Sure, I live in HS now, but I have not always. Even in HS, I'd like the ability to hunt, or at least find, cloaked ships. I happen to like using smartbombs, and I can't, because cloaks. I don't want the ability by default or for free, I'm happy to pay the same cost the cloaker did for his cloak---fitting space and module slot, and even a little extra by having to intentionally look for him.

As it turns out, while the idea that a cloaked ship is harmless is a popular defense argument, there are a few points that break that argument... First, they are capable of seeing the grid and running probes to gather detailed info. If your argument is that info has no value and isn't worth proactively protecting... well... you are wrong. Second, if being harmless is a justification for 100% safety then please explain why Pods, Shuttles, Freighters, and most Industrials are targetable. Even better, as all a cloaked ship has to do is deactivate the cloak, why is any ship that voluntarily deactivates all it's modules not also enjoying some kind of nigh unbreakable defensive effect? Never mind that the cloaked ship is still projecting threat and demanding a defensive response from a 100% safe position. Tactics are a thing, not all danger needs to come directly from a ship's guns.

As to defense fleets... Just because you are in a fleet does not make it instantly available the moment you get attacked. The question is why is it required for the defender to have such a fleet on hand at all times yet the aggressor can remain solo indefinitely and in perfect safety? Why is a cloaked ship 100% immune to aggression of any kind, always being in the position of attacker in any engagement that does not involve careless flying or blind jumps?

There are indeed many ways to be safe. All of them, other than docking and cloaks, require proactive effort on the part of the pilot to stay that way, especially over long periods of time. Docking is that way for very good reasons...and yet despite being a fairly trivial module in terms of cost and fitting cloaks are in some ways even safer than being docked. Go figure.



I am sorry you thought that linking a whole slew of inherent game conditions tangentially to the function of a module was logical, or related in any way to something I wrote. It wasn't, in either case. I will give you points for trying, and for being more original than most who do that by including more than stations and local chat.

In point of fact, the relative power and need for rebalance of almost all modules, and ships for that matter, is determined and decided upon by how commonly it's used. So... yeah... you have a circumstance where a module has reached near complete saturation in every meta present in wormhole space. That indicates a problem just like when all tanks become armor buffers, or all weapons are lasers, etc... We have seen FOTM arguments of this sort for everything over the years, many of which resulted in change, and nothing has ever approached the umbiguity of cloaks in wormhole space.

* You do realize there are more opinions than "all or nothing" right? Come on. Titans should be rare, cloaks don't help them do that. Cloaks on all other ships aren't a big deal.

* Is this your thing? Ignoring what I said? Mike, stop copy/pasting what you wrote for 300 pages and respond to me if you want to be taken as anything more than a whiny 13 year old.

* You want to hunt cloaked ships. You've killed zero ships. You don't want to hunt anyone. Stop bullsh*tting everyone.

* You do realize you can see probes on d-scan, right? Here's a tip for you, since you seem clueless. You see probes on d-scan close to you when PvE-ing, reship or run. You can thank me with some ISK if you want. Just like cloaks, I can send you a link to the basics of how modules work in EVE. It seems like you are completely clueless to them.

* If you're in null (which again, is the ONLY place cloaky campers are risky ATM) you should be in a group that's big enough to be in a standing fleet. Why do you own your own space if you can't defend it 24/7?

* One more time, explain to me how a cloaked ship can hurt anyone. I love how you simply ignore that problem. "If I just ignore the things I can't explain, imma prove my point!" --Mike, "logic king" Voidstar



One more time, respond to what I actually said, mmkay? You seem to be doing nothing but copy/pasting the same responses. Try conversation. I can talk slower if that helps!

Mike, how much time have you spent in wormhole space? And can you start posting on this forum with your main character? zero kills, but you're an expert on PvP. No talk of doing anything in wormholes, but you're an expert on them, yet you talk about having multiple accounts on these forums. Hiding behind this persona to avoid risk like this makes taking you serious simply impossible.

Send me a message in game if you don't want to post your main character here. I'd love to chat with the real you

This.

Still this and always this.


They want all the reward and none of the risk as it always has been, as it always shall be.


Has the "local has nothing to do with this" cherry been trotted out yet?