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Which Battleship should I train in to for missioning?

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Author
atomic killer
The DARK TROJANS
#21 - 2016-05-24 21:19:26 UTC
SweetLips Shayiskhun wrote:
Klymer wrote:
Arjar Skord wrote:


I was planning on just clearing since I usually mission while watching tv shows/movies/streams so I get distracted way too often for blitzing to be efficient.


This is a recipe for getting ganked in Lanngisi , especially if your sitting there in a Marauder.

I'd say start with a Dominix and drones and work up from there.


Ganked? he is in high sec safe space so this is not possible.

But yes he needs not marauder but hyperion which is best missions ship


Yes....ganked. In hi sec. Even freighters get ganked in hisec.
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#22 - 2016-05-24 21:27:28 UTC
SweetLips Shayiskhun wrote:
Klymer wrote:
Arjar Skord wrote:


I was planning on just clearing since I usually mission while watching tv shows/movies/streams so I get distracted way too often for blitzing to be efficient.


This is a recipe for getting ganked in Lanngisi , especially if your sitting there in a Marauder.

I'd say start with a Dominix and drones and work up from there.


Ganked? he is in high sec safe space so this is not possible.

But yes he needs not marauder but hyperion which is best missions ship


Quoted for lols.

Either "worst troll" contender, or "most misguided player" applicant.

Either way, this person's comments can be safely disregarded.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2016-05-24 22:42:56 UTC
The Bigpuns wrote:
SweetLips Shayiskhun wrote:
Klymer wrote:
Arjar Skord wrote:


I was planning on just clearing since I usually mission while watching tv shows/movies/streams so I get distracted way too often for blitzing to be efficient.


This is a recipe for getting ganked in Lanngisi , especially if your sitting there in a Marauder.

I'd say start with a Dominix and drones and work up from there.


Ganked? he is in high sec safe space so this is not possible.

But yes he needs not marauder but hyperion which is best missions ship


Quoted for lols.

Either "worst troll" contender, or "most misguided player" applicant.

Either way, this person's comments can be safely disregarded.


I guess you've never heard of level 4 mission runners getting ganked by people who bait by shooting the mission runners MTU.
This has lead to many unsuspecting battleships destruction.
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#24 - 2016-05-25 04:53:41 UTC
Sweetlips, I'm going to act as though you aren't a troll for now... You CAN be ganked in hisec, and Hyperion is NOT the best mission running ship. It is NOT bullying to point out how wrong you are so that new players don't fall foul of following your advice...
SweetLips Shayiskhun
Doomheim
#25 - 2016-05-25 05:21:30 UTC
The Bigpuns wrote:
Sweetlips, I'm going to act as though you aren't a troll for now... You CAN be ganked in hisec, and Hyperion is NOT the best mission running ship. It is NOT bullying to point out how wrong you are so that new players don't fall foul of following your advice...


To make gank on high sec player who only play to pve is bullying and grief to player. This is crime in many country so you make bully you pay crime.

[Hyperion, l4]
Large Armor Repairer I
Armor EM Hardener I
Armor EM Hardener I
Armor EM Hardener I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I

Large Micro Jump Drive
100MN Afterburner I
Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger I

425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Ogre I x5
Hobgoblin I x5
Hobgoblin I x5
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#26 - 2016-05-25 07:46:14 UTC
And that fit right there is why people can disregard your suggestions.

Bullying might be a crime, but in Eve, ganking and griefing is known as "content". Learn this, it will serve you well. A lot better than that poor hype at least...
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#27 - 2016-05-25 14:41:44 UTC
SweetLips Shayiskhun wrote:
The Bigpuns wrote:
Sweetlips, I'm going to act as though you aren't a troll for now... You CAN be ganked in hisec, and Hyperion is NOT the best mission running ship. It is NOT bullying to point out how wrong you are so that new players don't fall foul of following your advice...


To make gank on high sec player who only play to pve is bullying and grief to player. This is crime in many country so you make bully you pay crime.

[Hyperion, l4]
Large Armor Repairer I
Armor EM Hardener I
Armor EM Hardener I
Armor EM Hardener I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I

Large Micro Jump Drive
100MN Afterburner I
Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger I

425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Ogre I x5
Hobgoblin I x5
Hobgoblin I x5

Oh where to start so I will start here.
Ganking is not considered bullying and ganking someone is not a banable offense CCP has made this clear in many places and over many years.

Ganking can and does happen and the more popular the mission hub is the more likely you are to be ganked and the SOE systems are the worst because the gankers know that virtually everyone will want to go there at some point in time. So OP if you are looking into missions in the SOE systems I would suggest at most a simple T2 fit ship and preferably a T1 or faction hull as well to minimize your chances.

Now to this crazy best mission Hyperion.
Well let me start by saying that I have standard T2 fit Ravens that will work as well or better than this will.
Then there are the Rattlesnake, Barghest, Machariel, Navy Raven and Nightmare fits and all of them would be as good or better than this fit.
But in reality we end up at the kings of mission ships and those are the Marauder class. Of these a cruise fit Golem is most flexible while the Paladin and Vargur both excel when running against a limited set of NPC races due to some inherent advantages to turret based weapons systems.

Please do not get me wrong here, if you like your Hyperion fit and it works for you then fly on and have fun because this is game and fun iw what this is all about. However we cannot and will not let it pass without comment when you boldly state it is the "best" mission ship because we know that it is not the "best".
SweetLips Shayiskhun
Doomheim
#28 - 2016-05-25 16:21:29 UTC
The Bigpuns wrote:
And that fit right there is why people can disregard your suggestions.

Bullying might be a crime, but in Eve, ganking and griefing is known as "content". Learn this, it will serve you well. A lot better than that poor hype at least...


This is so wrong. You make bully by shooting up non combat character for no reason and take their ships and hard earned items. Now they have very much stress and could have anxiety or panic attack even heart attack from this outrageous play. This is real consequence and must be punished.

Is same as make assault on people in store just to laugh them in face. Both are crime.

Why you play game to only hurt and stress other people this is bad.
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#29 - 2016-05-25 16:58:12 UTC
SweetLips Shayiskhun wrote:
Who's that, trip-trapping over my bridge?


And so you reveal yourself, troll.
ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#30 - 2016-05-27 15:18:33 UTC
Let us do our best to stay on track and help the OP by answering the question he posed. I have removed some off topic and trolling remarks.

ISD Fractal

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-05-27 19:56:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
If you want to maximise isk/hr (which I'm guessing you do from picking a specific LP Store to profit from)
You'll need to blitz a lot, afaik the Machariel is still one of the better options for this
You may want to consider a Marauder as well

FYI I've only ever used 4 ships to run L4 missions
Ishkur, Ishtar, Gila & Tengu





ps
if you stay with a T2 fit and don't use lots of expensive deadspace or faction modules then people who gank for profit will be less inclined to target you, it won't help you avoid the people who will gank you because you are there however


edit
Blitzing & Burner Mission info --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=454677&find=unread
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#32 - 2016-05-27 20:56:05 UTC
ISD Fractal wrote:
Let us do our best to stay on track and help the OP by answering the question he posed. I have removed some off topic and trolling remarks.

Most of us have in fact been doing this, but since the third comment in one individual is trolling...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Lathael
Liga der aussergewoehnlichen Tattergreise
#33 - 2016-05-28 23:13:58 UTC
I recommend the type you like most.
Seriously you spend a lot of time in your ship so you should take one you like and enjoy to watch.

Beside that I choose lasers because you have no cost for ammo. Tech1 crystals never deplete.
So you can min/max a bit more.

But that was my choice and need not to fit in yours.

On the long run you will end up with marauders which halfs your ammo costs regardless which type you choose.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#34 - 2016-05-29 01:20:04 UTC
Lathael wrote:
On the long run you will end up with marauders which halfs your ammo costs regardless which type you choose.

Basically, yeah. It's not just the savings in ammo costs, but the ability to loot and salvage as you go since Marauders have significant cargo capacity. Even though they have less projected DPS than most Pirate hulls they have superior damage application. And even if you're not going to salvage, having a 48km tractor for mission objectives is definitely handy.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#35 - 2016-05-29 06:08:22 UTC
SweetLips Shayiskhun wrote:
The Bigpuns wrote:
Sweetlips, I'm going to act as though you aren't a troll for now... You CAN be ganked in hisec, and Hyperion is NOT the best mission running ship. It is NOT bullying to point out how wrong you are so that new players don't fall foul of following your advice...


To make gank on high sec player who only play to pve is bullying and grief to player. This is crime in many country so you make bully you pay crime.

[Hyperion, l4]
Large Armor Repairer I
Armor EM Hardener I
Armor EM Hardener I
Armor EM Hardener I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I

Large Micro Jump Drive
100MN Afterburner I
Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger I

425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge L
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Ogre I x5
Hobgoblin I x5
Hobgoblin I x5


This is an obvious troll fit. There are so many things wrong with this fit, its astounding. You could get better dps and better tank out of a drake for 1/3 the cost of this fit ..and better range... and better application of DPS.

But to the OPs question:

The golem doesnt impress me. Rattlesnake has both better DPS and better tank at about 1/3 of the cost. You wont see golems running around null doing anoms and plexing but you will see a lot of snakes and there is a reason for that.

Regardless of which ship you choose just remember the more bling you have in highsec the more people with try to gank you. My snake fit ( for anoms and plexing) is all x type deadspace and faction where deadspace isnt available and the snake fitted ( including t2 rigs) only cost 300 mil more than a golem hull.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#36 - 2016-05-29 06:18:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
The golem doesnt impress me. Rattlesnake has both better DPS and better tank at about 1/3 of the cost. You wont see golems running around null doing anoms and plexing but you will see a lot of snakes and there is a reason for that.

Regardless of which ship you choose just remember the more bling you have in highsec the more people with try to gank you. My snake fit ( for anoms and plexing) is all x type deadspace and faction where deadspace isnt available and the snake fitted ( including t2 rigs) only cost 300 mil more than a golem hull.

EHP perhaps, but nothing can touch either a shield or armor tank on a Marauder. The reason you see a lot of Rattlesnakes in anoms is probably no different than why you see a lot of Nightmares in Incursions (best tool for the job). The Rattlesnake has great specs on paper but you need a lot of V skills or it won't peform better than most T1 battleships. My torp Golem can and does keep up with any Rattlesnake for mission grinding (not blitzing, as the Machariel is still king), and in terms of an "all-in-one" platform to grind, clear, blitz, salvage, etc. Marauders are the ticket.

At the end of the day fly what gets you excited to play. Just not a Hyperion...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#37 - 2016-05-29 07:50:01 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
[quote=SweetLips Shayiskhun]The golem doesnt impress me. Rattlesnake has both better DPS and better tank at about 1/3 of the cost. You wont see golems running around null doing anoms and plexing but you will see a lot of snakes and there is a reason for that.

Regardless of which ship you choose just remember the more bling you have in highsec the more people with try to gank you. My snake fit ( for anoms and plexing) is all x type deadspace and faction where deadspace isnt available and the snake fitted ( including t2 rigs) only cost 300 mil more than a golem hull.

EHP perhaps, but nothing can touch either a shield or armor tank on a Marauder. The reason you see a lot of Rattlesnakes in anoms is probably no different than why you see a lot of Nightmares in Incursions (best tool for the job). The Rattlesnake has great specs on paper but you need a lot of V skills or it won't peform better than most T1 battleships. My torp Golem can and does keep up with any Rattlesnake for mission grinding (not blitzing, as the Machariel is still king), and in terms of an "all-in-one" platform to grind, clear, blitz, salvage, etc. Marauders are the ticket.

At the end of the day fly what gets you excited to play. Just not a Hyperion...



I will agree that the rattlesnake is a heavy train with two races and two weapon systems, but to max to level v marauders require more SP. Which really only leave drones, which will be useful to train for any race( they just arent as pressing on other ships to max) I will definitely disagree on a golem being able to out tank a snake. My plexing snake, with just swapping a few mods can go from a 1200 dps rat spec tank to a 5000 dps rat spec tank.

Keeping the tanks about the same and using the same meta of mods, my snake puts out 320 more raw DPS( thats about 40% more ) when dealing unbonused damage types and 65%(525 dps) more with bonused damage types.

Lets apply this raw dps in game. Golem gets 50% to target painter effectiveness and 25% to explosion velocity. That is the argument for why the golem is better than the snake at applying dps. that difference. However, half of my snake DPS comes from heavy drones. T2 Ogres have better tracking than Light electron blasters. Ogres do not have an issue taking out small rats. The other factions drones have even better tracking .

Missiles. If you use cruise missiles you have a good reach, but the explosion velocity is still that of heavies. If you use torps, you have to get close but better explosion velocity and damage.

Since i am using heavies, my drones will actually tank quite a bit of aggro so i can free up a couple more slots either for missile guidance, more dps, or tracking.

End result, running missions, IF the golem is running torps and the snake is running cruise the golem might have a slight edge depending on the mission . If both run the same weapon type the snake wiill have a slight edge with unbonused damage and a significant edge with bonused damage.

The snake is superior to the golem at a third the cost, which is why we use it in null and not golems. They are inferior for ratting and plexing.

But as you said fly what you want, really it only matters if you are looking for max isk/hr. Otherwise any ship that will tank an L4 and kill BS will work. Personally if i was doing missions, i would probably have a pirate faction ship for each damage type and just keep switching ships depending on what faction i was shooting, because why not? It would make them less boring( at least to me)
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#38 - 2016-05-29 19:57:01 UTC
I for one do prefer the rs to the golem, but I think you can't say it has a better (active) tank. Put the same modules on them and tell me what figures you get.

As far as dps goes... Rs does do better paper dps. Half in missiles and half in drones (roughly, depending on fit and skills).

Your missiles might not be hitting into primary resist holes (angels, blood raiders and sansha), and won't apply as well as the golems, and don't have as good range.
Heavy drones - you can probably knock a third off their effective dps due to travel times. Sentries - you have to trade off dps with damage type or range.

Don't get me wrong, I love the rs. Neither ship needs more than a two slot shield tank, and both are better at different things or missions. But tank is not where it comes out ahead.

Also, I thought the reason rattles were used for plexes and ratting, when marauders aren't, is because a marauder is easier to scan down and catch? Could be wrong...
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#39 - 2016-05-29 21:58:49 UTC
The Bigpuns wrote:
Your missiles might not be hitting into primary resist holes (angels, blood raiders and sansha), and won't apply as well as the golems, and don't have as good range.
Heavy drones - you can probably knock a third off their effective dps due to travel times. Sentries - you have to trade off dps with damage type or range.

That's a fair assessment.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2016-05-30 19:33:08 UTC
I've been distracted playing other games for about a year but I've used a Macharial for quite a long time. I fit it with large T2 Arties , use quake ammo and keep my distance with a Republic fleet 100mn afterburner. I shield tank it with a faction shield boost amp and a faction Shield Booster and use the t2 hardners the mission calls for. My lowers are a T2 DC, a T2 RCU and a mix of T2 TE's and Gyrostabilizers. Rigs are T1 a large operational solidifier a large EM screen and a large Projectile burst aerator. It can push 580 m/s which at least a year ago would outrun anything in a mission short of an interceptor and with 5 hobs they aren't much of a problem. I have 5 hammerheads if I need the extra dps on cruiser + targets. It ain't cheap when I originally bought it I thought I may one day do incursions in it with a refit but the corp I was in never really got into them. Incursions would have made it an excellent investment but its more than paid for itself in lvl 4's. Are they still as profitable as ever?
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