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What The H-E-Double Hockey Sticks Happened to Mining?

Author
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#241 - 2016-05-23 15:30:06 UTC
1 word, -> procurer. <- here is your solution
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2016-05-23 15:36:52 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
The problem is not the ganking but that ALSO the criminals are protected by CONCORD.

...I'm in a BS full with Deadspace modules to the brim and some lousy catalyst with the most notorious ganker flys by. What do you do? Do you engage him and loose you blinky ship to concord or do you just leave him alone?
Really? Are you truly so ignorant of the crimewatch mechanic, the security status mechanic and how flagging works, that you believe this? Gankers, especially those who do it regularly receive no protection from Concord, are generally flagged either as criminals or as outlaws, both of which mean you can shoot them in the face and Concord won't bat an eyelid or leave the doughnut stall.

If they're notorious gankers they generally have a sec status that reflects that; which means, as above, you can shoot them in the face without intervention from Concord.

March rabbit wrote:
try to shoot that 'peaceful' destroyer sitting on gates waiting for pod to kill. You will find new mechanics for you: concord. And it does not help if you digged killboard and found out that this pilot kills 10 pod each day. He is protected until he aggressed.
You should know better, if he kills 10 unflagged pods a day his sec status is pretty much fixed at -10, no matter how many tags get bought and redeemed.

Lisbeth Riraille wrote:
CODE says 'defend yourselves, miners!', hides behind skirts of Concorde.
How? Once they hit a certain sec status Concord don't give two tosses if you shoot them in the face; most gankers wear their low sec status as a badge of honour in my experience. Their PvE and other alts, while Concord will visit retribution upon whomever attacks them without the appropriate flags, the players themselves will probably be taking active steps to avoid predators and thus don't tend to get caught; gankers know what it takes not to be ganked, they follow their own advice.

Lisbeth Riraille wrote:
The ones who rely on Concorde as enablers for their crimes, of course. James and his roleplay group in CODE won't try it in null because there's no concorde to protect them from being killed in their shieldless cats before they can start roleplaying.
For Concord to be enablers they would have to be that which makes ganking possible; which they are not as ganking also happens in places where Concord don't exist. The enablers of ganking are CCP, they put in place the basic gameplay mechanic that allows you to shoot anybody in the face, at any time, anywhere in space (The Martini Option?)

You're correct in that their hisec ganking tactics are extremely unlikely to work in nullsec; rumour has it that they often go to low and null on roams albeit it using a different play-book, where they shoot at stuff that (gasp) shoots back.


'The Martini option' is an absolutely fantastic coinage :D


Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#243 - 2016-05-23 15:37:29 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
That's not hiding behind Concord though is it? That's using game mechanics such as clones and bookmarks to minimise risk.
Sure it's not, but it's makes the whole "shoot them in the face" suggestion a bit of a moot point. You'd literally spend more in ammo that they'd lose from losing their pod.

Quote:
I specifically mentioned alts, I've underlined it in the quote above especially for you as you appear to have blithely replied to my post without actually reading it.

Logistics wise, 3rd parties or unassociated alts are used... duh.

Roll
You did, which is why I thought it was weird that you still question how they were hiding behind concord. I certainly did read it, and I'm well aware that they follow their own advice and know how to not get ganked, but that still doesn't change the fact that they are flying in highsec with concord protection.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#244 - 2016-05-23 16:00:24 UTC
Areen Sassel wrote:

March rabbit wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:

If that doesn't work (or you tag up), a single act of highsec piracy still puts you at risk by giving a trade-able killright to your victim that also can 'turn off' CONCORD making you free-to-shoot.

what does killright worth if ganker alt is in space only between undocking and getting concordokken?

It's hardly remarkable that it's hard to shoot someone who's willing to spend almost no time in space, but you started by complaining about the unshootability of a destroyer sitting on a gate.

I know, this is very difficult to spot, but these 2 posts talk about two completely different cases and problems.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#245 - 2016-05-23 16:32:33 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You did, which is why I thought it was weird that you still question how they were hiding behind concord. I certainly did read it, and I'm well aware that they follow their own advice and know how to not get ganked, but that still doesn't change the fact that they are flying in highsec with concord protection.
It was stated that gankers hide behind concord, not their alts; their alts do often fall under the umbrella of Concord, I said as much in my post.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#246 - 2016-05-23 16:59:33 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
You did, which is why I thought it was weird that you still question how they were hiding behind concord. I certainly did read it, and I'm well aware that they follow their own advice and know how to not get ganked, but that still doesn't change the fact that they are flying in highsec with concord protection.
It was stated that gankers hide behind concord, not their alts; their alts do often fall under the umbrella of Concord, I said as much in my post.
But you knew full well what was meant by that. You can't say "Oh I totally don't hide behind concord, but I have all of my ships moved by someone that is so the only time I'm undocked an vulnerable is the 10 second window I'm on my way to gank". Gankers operate in highsec because they are as risk averse as the miners they hate, that's the simple reality.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#247 - 2016-05-23 17:15:52 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Areen Sassel wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
try to shoot that 'peaceful' destroyer sitting on gates waiting for pod to kill.
If that doesn't work (or you tag up), a single act of highsec piracy still puts you at risk by giving a trade-able killright to your victim that also can 'turn off' CONCORD making you free-to-shoot.
what does killright worth if ganker alt is in space only between undocking and getting concordokken?
It's hardly remarkable that it's hard to shoot someone who's willing to spend almost no time in space, but you started by complaining about the unshootability of a destroyer sitting on a gate.
I know, this is very difficult to spot, but these 2 posts talk about two completely different cases and problems.


Ordinarily I don't like deep-nested quotes, but here is the full history. You did in fact start by complaining about dessies sitting on gates and Pedro's mention of killrights was in response to that.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#248 - 2016-05-23 17:53:04 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Gankers operate in highsec because they are as risk averse as the miners they hate, that's the simple reality.

You are like those fat kids who call everyone else fat because that is what they always hear from others and because they think that will hurt them equally.
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#249 - 2016-05-23 18:00:26 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Gankers operate in highsec because they are as risk averse as the miners they hate, that's the simple reality.


If your goal, as ours is, is to control highsec you would have to be some kind of damn fool to go to low or null to fight.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#250 - 2016-05-23 18:12:33 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Gankers operate in highsec because they are as risk averse as the miners they hate, that's the simple reality.

You are like those fat kids who call everyone else fat because that is what they always hear from others and because they think that will hurt them equally.
That would only really work if I were a highsec player. I'm more like an onlooker laughing at how one fat kid is calling another fat kid fat.

Bing Bangboom wrote:
If your goal, as ours is, is to control highsec you would have to be some kind of damn fool to go to low or null to fight.
That clearly isn't your goal otherwise you would restrict yourself to only the easiest kills. Well, I suppose it could be your goal if you are admitting that you are woefully incompetent at achieving it due to your terrible target selection.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#251 - 2016-05-23 18:27:26 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
That would only really work if I were a highsec player. I'm more like an onlooker laughing at how one fat kid is calling another fat kid fat.

Lucas Kell wrote:
You are nothing to worry about. I've done a lot of highsec mining and not once been ganked by a code member, since you are only after easy kills.

Calm down miner.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#252 - 2016-05-23 18:35:33 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
That would only really work if I were a highsec player. I'm more like an onlooker laughing at how one fat kid is calling another fat kid fat.

Lucas Kell wrote:
You are nothing to worry about. I've done a lot of highsec mining and not once been ganked by a code member, since you are only after easy kills.

Calm down miner.
Apparently you don't know what past tense is. Google is your friend, I'll wait.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#253 - 2016-05-23 18:48:12 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:


This is waxing too philosophical now. The game is working more-or-less as intended. Bottom line: CCP purposely makes you content, CCP intends for ganking to exists, CCP has looked hard and has found ganking has no detrimental effect on new players, and carebears, CCP is not going to to save you. Stop your "think of the children" lobbying to be made safe and just play the game, or go play something else where you are not the content on offer for the other players.



pretty much, but still people will waste more energy crying about it than trying to do something about it, like learning how to deal with it.

or they could try to stop being such self centered, self entitled special little snowflakes and as you said go play something else where they can feel all fuzzy and safe and stop trying to make EVE into what she is not.

everyone is on offer as content once you undock.





Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#254 - 2016-05-23 19:01:13 UTC
Lol this thread is still going?!? Victory for the New Order! :D

Hey lucas, great job complaining about how we:

~fly cheap~ and

~have alts~

I'm sure CCP will get right on those glaring issues!

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#255 - 2016-05-23 19:13:45 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
That would only really work if I were a highsec player. I'm more like an onlooker laughing at how one fat kid is calling another fat kid fat.

Lucas Kell wrote:
You are nothing to worry about. I've done a lot of highsec mining and not once been ganked by a code member, since you are only after easy kills.

Calm down miner.
Apparently you don't know what past tense is. Google is your friend, I'll wait.

I forgot, they did ban your input-broadcasting multibox fleet. hence all the anger... tztz... Maybe you should really take my advice and calm down. I know you think you are some kind of nullsec-hero now and that makes you a better player, but it's clearly the highsec miner in you that speaks on the forums.
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2016-05-23 19:23:17 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Lol this thread is still going?!? Victory for the New Order! :D


If you're posting here, you're not ganking me.

Me, I'm mining afk while I type. Plus I'm posting on my phone while I'm sat on the pot.

No victory for you!

:D
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#257 - 2016-05-23 19:28:37 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
That would only really work if I were a highsec player. I'm more like an onlooker laughing at how one fat kid is calling another fat kid fat.

Lucas Kell wrote:
You are nothing to worry about. I've done a lot of highsec mining and not once been ganked by a code member, since you are only after easy kills.

Calm down miner.
Apparently you don't know what past tense is. Google is your friend, I'll wait.

I forgot, they did ban your input-broadcasting multibox fleet. hence all the anger...



Is THAT what this dude's deal is? You can tell he has something stuck in his craw...

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#258 - 2016-05-23 19:30:42 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Hey lucas, great job complaining about how we:

~fly cheap~ and

~have alts~

I'm sure CCP will get right on those glaring issues!
I'm not complaining, I've stated outright that that's a perfectly acceptable playstyle. Just like highsec mining is.

Ima Wreckyou wrote:
I forgot, they did ban your input-broadcasting multibox fleet. hence all the anger... tztz... Maybe you should really take my advice and calm down. I know you think you are some kind of nullsec-hero now and that makes you a better player, but it's clearly the highsec miner in you that speaks on the forums.
Nope, I never used broadcasting for my fleet. In fact up until that whole thing started I used no software to be on the safe side, but afterwards I used EVE-O preview. You'd now this of course if you actually read post rather than assuming their content. I still have all the accounts up now that SP trading is a thing (48 characters generating SP every month is pretty sweet) but I'm halted on mining for a while until I have more free time. Either way, you don't operate in any of the space I mine in, and if you did you'd be entirely ineffective.

For a moment there I forgot that everyone who has an opinion that opposes yours is obviously a crying miner though, thanks for reminding me.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#259 - 2016-05-23 19:34:31 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Is THAT what this dude's deal is? You can tell he has something stuck in his craw...
No, it's the argument Ima desperately clings to in an attempt to discredit me enough that I stop posting. The reality (that can be seen in the thread) is that I wanted active gameplay mechanics so that multiboxing at scale was incredibly difficult (like how you can't really multibox exploration with broadcasting) rather than blanket bans based on server side data analysis. Apparently though Ima think that miners should be able to operate almost as efficiently AFK as at the keyboard, so he's taken it on himself to disagree with my every post. vOv

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#260 - 2016-05-23 19:44:30 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

Ima Wreckyou wrote:
I forgot, they did ban your input-broadcasting multibox fleet. hence all the anger... tztz... Maybe you should really take my advice and calm down. I know you think you are some kind of nullsec-hero now and that makes you a better player, but it's clearly the highsec miner in you that speaks on the forums.
Nope, I never used broadcasting for my fleet. In fact up until that whole thing started I used no software to be on the safe side, but afterwards I used EVE-O preview. You'd now this of course if you actually read post rather than assuming their content. I still have all the accounts up now that SP trading is a thing (48 characters generating SP every month is pretty sweet) but I'm halted on mining for a while until I have more free time. Either way, you don't operate in any of the space I mine in, and if you did you'd be entirely ineffective.

For a moment there I forgot that everyone who has an opinion that opposes yours is obviously a crying miner though, thanks for reminding me.

Crying on the forums every time something about the New Order comes up plus 48 mining characters really make you look like a crying miner. It actually makes you look like THE crying miner.

Also 48 mining characters and over 200 pages of your tears in that sticky input broadcast thread in GD are not really convincing to anyone if you try to tell us you did not use input broadcasting.