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Incursions - 1b / hr?

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Jacob Storms
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-01-13 18:13:53 UTC
I am curious, I have been away for a bit. Came back and done Mish. Now I am kind of burnt out on mish, same ol same old! What are your skill levels at? I want to get into exploration, just at a loss as to what to train and how high. Noob question I know, But.... anyway grats to you and all of you who rake in Bills.

Thanks,

JS
Why is my Signature not working!!!???!!!
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#42 - 2012-01-13 19:33:16 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
Good god you are dumb as hell.

The difference is that the security offered in null sec is PLAYER DRIVEN. Intel channels, defense fleets, etc. In high sec , hurrrrr Concord. Sure null is safe, because players make it so. And yet, there are still risks (cloakie gangs, fast moving gangs, etc).

The security in nullsec is player driven, the profitability is hard coded in.
The security in highsec is hard coded in, the profitability is player driven.

In null, players have the ability to act as something that increases the risk of isk making there.
In HS, players have the ability to act as something that decreases the profitability of making isk there.

As a rule, PVE that requires coordination and teamwork should pay more than PVE that can be done solo.

Null still pays more than highsec, despite the PVE being done solo.

Why are you still complaining?
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#43 - 2012-01-13 19:40:13 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
XXSketchxx wrote:
Good god you are dumb as hell.

The difference is that the security offered in null sec is PLAYER DRIVEN. Intel channels, defense fleets, etc. In high sec , hurrrrr Concord. Sure null is safe, because players make it so. And yet, there are still risks (cloakie gangs, fast moving gangs, etc).

The security in nullsec is player driven, the profitability is hard coded in.
The security in highsec is hard coded in, the profitability is player driven.

In null, players have the ability to act as something that increases the risk of isk making there.
In HS, players have the ability to act as something that decreases the profitability of making isk there.

As a rule, PVE that requires coordination and teamwork should pay more than PVE that can be done solo.

Null still pays more than highsec, despite the PVE being done solo.

Why are you still complaining?


Oddly enough, I don't think you realize this but I agree with you completely. My problem is with the massive isk flow increase that there has been in this game. I think incursions all around should be nerfed, at least in terms of isk generation.

Why are you having such a hard time understanding inflation?
Gaitrie
MagmaTech Industries
#44 - 2012-01-13 20:03:50 UTC
I do not think it is even chemically possible to hit 1bn/hr for incursions :-)

Mine is Bigger **than **Yours ! <<<
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#45 - 2012-01-13 22:08:44 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:

Oddly enough, I don't think you realize this but I agree with you completely. My problem is with the massive isk flow increase that there has been in this game. I think incursions all around should be nerfed, at least in terms of isk generation.

Why are you having such a hard time understanding inflation?

So, let me get this straight, if I make any mistakes in my explanation please point them out:
You post things about risk vs reward, comparing nullsec to highsec etc.
You then claim to agree completely that the balance between null and high is reasonable, and that the only thing that bothers you about the whole thing is the raw isk increase (which I doubt is quite as big as you seem to think it is).
Dztrgovac
#46 - 2012-01-14 02:36:33 UTC
If you nerf them people wont do them. Uberzombwtfpwn fits like ones that go in fleets are also ones that could go over 100M isk/hr just blitzing L4 for a good corp.
Spineker
#47 - 2012-01-14 07:00:30 UTC
Everyone and their mother knows Incursions are broken. I mean come on do people ever think of the game overall or just their own little pile? It is pathetic to continue defedning the Waterfall of Isk. Oh and LP
Dztrgovac
#48 - 2012-01-14 11:33:02 UTC
What waterfall of ISK? OP's billion is completely out of touch with reality. Say you are in a ideal system with short warps (80AU warps add quite a lot of time); that you don't lose single site to competition (often has more to do with lock times and less with quality of ships and FC) and that during that one hour no one goes afk or bio or runs out of ammo.

You will occasionally get 3 minute tics. But consistent 3 minute ticks simply don't happen. So we are talking 4 minute ticks. That is 160M isk/hr. Without the LP; but its the already greatly undervalued LP.
Equally pimped Mach or Mare can nearly match that money blitzing L4s. If you count LP in incursion profit you maybe get to 200M/hr.

For one flawless hour of running. Add in bio breaks and other downtime and even with shiniest fleets your ISK/hr over total running times (from moment you saw someone go "starting fleet, x-up", to moment where you drop fleet unknown number of hours later).

You get 200-250m raw isk doing anoms in Moms and Ttians in max upgraded systems. 100-150M/hr in best non caps.


Do you really want to say that all of 00 doing upgraded anoms and all the RMT bots they allow to rat are not pumping isk into economy, but highsec incursions are. Also; there are always more lowsec and null incursions opened than highsec ones. If it spawns in someone's safe back yard do you think they don't do them; for pure 15M ticks?
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#49 - 2012-01-14 12:22:12 UTC
Dyaven wrote:
So I spent all day today running Incursions for the first time after hearing how lucrative it is.

I would agree that it's more fun than L4s when you have a friendly fleet to keep you company but as far as isk goes I do not see where people are pulling this 1b/hr figure from.

I spent a few hours running Vanguards and a few hours running HQs and a generous figure would be 40m/hr for the Vanguards and 60m for the HQs, not including the hour or two it took to both find a fleet and get everyone in the first site, and then between each site we would always have to replace members that had to leave.

Now, I could have just had bad luck with fleets, but even if I went into the channels and instantly found a fleet that blew through HQs at the fastest possible rate I couldn't possibly see breaking 100 - 120m/hr. Now, I am excluding LP from this, and I am aware that it can make up for a good proportion of the isk gained, but I would be really hard to pressed to believe that CONCORD LPs are worth the~12,000isk/LP they would need to be in order to push that 100m/hr to 1b/hr.

So... where is this 1b/hr figure coming from?



with the changed ccp have made. longer respawn on sites and mostly 2 incursions from 3. the isk per hour in high sec has been reduced. mostly due to compertition for sites.
had to happen imo, just a shame i didnt get to milk that isk cow for as long as some, oh well all good things come to and end

OMG when can i get a pic here
AstarothPrime
Pecunia Infinita
#50 - 2012-01-14 13:11:50 UTC
Incursions are ok IMO, maybe a little too much pay in hisec but hey...

100M / hr is kinda hard to achieve unless you really have true pimped out shiny fleet which costs 10B isk and noone wants to contest it...

Otherwise - if there aint no contest - means you will have problems in finding a fleet due to low player count...

In any case - it requires patience, +far larger risk then 0sec ratting in safe hub...

In my expirience -> incursioning while being contested every other site - yielded us around 5 - 6 VG sites / hour, meaning around 50-60M isk.
Meanwhile ratting in 0sec easily produces 20-25M isk ticks.

So incursions pay: 50-60M / hr
0sec ratting pays: 60-75M / hr

Atleast for me...

I.
Dztrgovac
#51 - 2012-01-14 14:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Dztrgovac
T2 and bare faction Legion fleet, or a HAC/CS/T3/Pirate Cruiser fleet can contest even shiniest pirate BS fleet in NCO or NMC just doe to lock times. Same BS fleet can steal a OTA from above due to faesmelt dps.

Point is that even with shiniest fleet you get sites taken from you. Then you will almost always get a 5 or 10 minute break every hour and a half to two hours. You can hit a "happy hour" where you get 3m ticks and what not and get 120-140 bare isk in one hour. But over 4 or 5 hours of fleeting you will be getting much less than that.

Edit. To shout it louder once again. A nice shiny fleet that does occasional 3 minutes ticks with most being 4 and 5 will still give you only around 100M/hr if you count time from "start x-ing" to leaving the fleet and docking.

Payouts can get high from time to time, but any talk of anything beyond 140 or 160M/hr in highsec, on a consistent basis is absurd.

While I will of course stay adamant in defending my isk source that actually allows me to pew pew and not lose to much sleep about it; I have to say that EVE really didn't need a new massive isk faucet and that CCP might have erred in designing Incursion pay outs.

You cant do prizes trough loot and salvage in highsec; 95% of time it'd be ninjaed away from you. As for LP...
There are so many damn caps and supercaps in game that meta capital modules for LP really isn't bad as a concept. Problem is that supercapts just fit officer gear and dont give a ****; while expendable dread or a carrier might shy away from meta guns. (set of meta guns may cost as much as a entire Rev).
Maybe they should reduce prices of current meta 1 stuff so it can be more attractive to regular caps; and introduce meta 2 (and maybe up to meta 4) for supercaps.

Then you could reduce ISK payout and increase LP; but it will still be fuxzored due to Amarr online when it comes to caps+ fleets. Everyone would (keep) only buying remote cap xfer and remote armor rep BPCs.
Pierre LaFayette
Sin City Enterprises
#52 - 2012-01-14 17:23:34 UTC
Dztrgovac wrote:
T2 and bare faction Legion fleet, or a HAC/CS/T3/Pirate Cruiser fleet can contest even shiniest pirate BS fleet in NCO or NMC just doe to lock times. Same BS fleet can steal a OTA from above due to faesmelt dps..


I agree with most of your post except for this first paragraph...

It is a rare occurrence that a legion/T3 fleet wins any NMC contest vs a properly fit and flown shiny BS fleet. They own NCO's, but NMC/OTA's belong to shiny BS fleets.
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