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ROI Astrahus
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Exaido
Fire Over Light
Astral Alliance
#21 - 2016-05-20 14:45:53 UTC
Roger that. Thanks DracVlad. Giving it a read now.
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#22 - 2016-05-20 14:52:39 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
I have a small tower that I only online for compression and reprocessing.

CCP can pry it from my cold dead fingers.

I have no intentions of anchoring a citadel in its place.


Well you won't have a choice eventually as POS modules will be made entirely useless once structures are made to replace them, in your case the industrial array, this isn't an optional change its an eventuality
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#23 - 2016-05-20 15:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sustrai Aditua
Sequester Risalo wrote:
PhatController wrote:
There more of an logistics tool then an income tool, and are priceless in that aspect.



Where?



There, their and they're are three completely different words with completely different meanings and only by chance share a few letters. I do not understand how it should be even remotely possible to confuse those. I think it is worth a few studies why these relatively simple words cause so much trouble. I mean, noone here is mixing up ball with bald, missiles with mittens, hell with Hel or widow with window although the number of similar letters is identical in those pairs.
OMFG!! Yer, ur, your...*ack ack* YOU'RE gonna get in trouble NOW!!! *Writes Santa*

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#24 - 2016-05-20 23:12:06 UTC
Cypherous wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
I have a small tower that I only online for compression and reprocessing.

CCP can pry it from my cold dead fingers.

I have no intentions of anchoring a citadel in its place.


Well you won't have a choice eventually as POS modules will be made entirely useless once structures are made to replace them, in your case the industrial array, this isn't an optional change its an eventuality

I love it when people try to explain industry topics to me Blink

The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018).
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-05-21 00:34:31 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Cypherous wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
I have a small tower that I only online for compression and reprocessing.

CCP can pry it from my cold dead fingers.

I have no intentions of anchoring a citadel in its place.


Well you won't have a choice eventually as POS modules will be made entirely useless once structures are made to replace them, in your case the industrial array, this isn't an optional change its an eventuality

I love it when people try to explain industry topics to me Blink

The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018).


2% better refine, and half the fuel costs of a small POS. I'll take the citadel thanks.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#26 - 2016-05-21 11:26:20 UTC
PhatController wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Cypherous wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
I have a small tower that I only online for compression and reprocessing.

CCP can pry it from my cold dead fingers.

I have no intentions of anchoring a citadel in its place.


Well you won't have a choice eventually as POS modules will be made entirely useless once structures are made to replace them, in your case the industrial array, this isn't an optional change its an eventuality

I love it when people try to explain industry topics to me Blink

The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018).


2% better refine, and half the fuel costs of a small POS. I'll take the citadel thanks.


Damn why don't you read what he said, you only online the damn thing to do your refining or compressing then it goes offline again, it is much cheaper than a Citadel with its refining module online, because you get a hell of a charge for putting it online.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#27 - 2016-05-21 17:43:24 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
PhatController wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018).

2% better refine, and half the fuel costs of a small POS. I'll take the citadel thanks.

Damn why don't you read what he said, you only online the damn thing to do your refining or compressing then it goes offline again, it is much cheaper than a Citadel with its refining module online, because you get a hell of a charge for putting it online.

Also paying at least 8 times more for the structure for that 2% better refining, and that's before fuel is considered.

As for fuel, my small POS uses 1 and sometimes 2 fuel blocks per reprocessing session.

If I really want that 2% more, I'd use an existing freeport citadel and pay the very reasonable tax instead.

Once the mining structures are released in the winter, this strategy may change.
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2016-05-21 21:25:03 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
PhatController wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018).

2% better refine, and half the fuel costs of a small POS. I'll take the citadel thanks.

Damn why don't you read what he said, you only online the damn thing to do your refining or compressing then it goes offline again, it is much cheaper than a Citadel with its refining module online, because you get a hell of a charge for putting it online.

Also paying at least 8 times more for the structure for that 2% better refining, and that's before fuel is considered.

As for fuel, my small POS uses 1 and sometimes 2 fuel blocks per reprocessing session.

If I really want that 2% more, I'd use an existing freeport citadel and pay the very reasonable tax instead.

Once the mining structures are released in the winter, this strategy may change.


It should pay for itself many times over, especially if it is being used by an Corp/Alliance rather then a single person.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#29 - 2016-05-21 22:16:29 UTC
Exaido wrote:
Has anyone calculated the ROI on an Astrahus, given at this point it can't be used for manufacturing, limiting the income to offices, reprocessing fees, taxes etc. As a user of an Astrahus for reprocessing, I make more ISK on volume but that's different from being an owner.

Given their relative fragility especially in high-sec compared to POS. It seems like they'd need a lot of throughput to cover the expense, and therefore lifespan? At what point do they become a positive revenue generator for the owner against the risk?

It feels like a cul de sac investment at the moment.


Depends what you want to use it for.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
LTH Roths
Mellivora Cael
#30 - 2016-05-21 23:14:10 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:

The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018).


2018 I do hope you are right that would be great Blink
Exaido
Fire Over Light
Astral Alliance
#31 - 2016-05-22 04:51:00 UTC
PhatController wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
PhatController wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018).

2% better refine, and half the fuel costs of a small POS. I'll take the citadel thanks.

Damn why don't you read what he said, you only online the damn thing to do your refining or compressing then it goes offline again, it is much cheaper than a Citadel with its refining module online, because you get a hell of a charge for putting it online.

Also paying at least 8 times more for the structure for that 2% better refining, and that's before fuel is considered.

As for fuel, my small POS uses 1 and sometimes 2 fuel blocks per reprocessing session.

If I really want that 2% more, I'd use an existing freeport citadel and pay the very reasonable tax instead.

Once the mining structures are released in the winter, this strategy may change.


It should pay for itself many times over, especially if it is being used by an Corp/Alliance rather then a single person.


The question in part is also their average life span - given their fragility, especially the mediums - will they live long enough to make their return?
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2016-05-22 19:51:26 UTC
Exaido wrote:



The question in part is also their average life span - given their fragility, especially the mediums - will they live long enough to make their return?


They are less fragile then a small POS, and possibly even an medium.
Exaido
Fire Over Light
Astral Alliance
#33 - 2016-05-23 06:21:54 UTC
This was from the thread that really drew my attention, in terms of the inability of the Citadels to act as a meaningful force multiplier. Then given, the cost the low revenue streams, as Mediums can't have markets etc. POS defences on the other hand could be fairly robust and effective: deathstar and dickstar etc.

---
Its a sad day for us lowly industry types as I watched our Astrahus shields be blown through in about 45 minutes.
2 missile launchers, ECM, painter and weapon disruptor did absolutely nothing in defense of the not to mention the fighter dron squadrons that posed no threat as they were zerged by the aggressing fleets drones.

It was so bad it was comical honestly as the Citadel was completely useless in defending itself.

I'm not complaining, just letting everyone know that is considering setting one of these up that, its pointless unless you have a huge alliance to defend it. Otherwise, it wont even be able to blow up a single ship of the fleet has more than 2 Logis.

I expected this to happen when we put the thing up but I thought I would at least have fun blowing up a few ships as the Citadel was being worked over. Nope. hah!

Tomorrow I will get to watch our armor be dismantled. :(

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=481789&find=unread
----
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2016-05-23 20:52:49 UTC
Exaido wrote:
This was from the thread that really drew my attention, in terms of the inability of the Citadels to act as a meaningful force multiplier. Then given, the cost the low revenue streams, as Mediums can't have markets etc. POS defences on the other hand could be fairly robust and effective: deathstar and dickstar etc.

---
Its a sad day for us lowly industry types as I watched our Astrahus shields be blown through in about 45 minutes.
2 missile launchers, ECM, painter and weapon disruptor did absolutely nothing in defense of the not to mention the fighter dron squadrons that posed no threat as they were zerged by the aggressing fleets drones.

It was so bad it was comical honestly as the Citadel was completely useless in defending itself.

I'm not complaining, just letting everyone know that is considering setting one of these up that, its pointless unless you have a huge alliance to defend it. Otherwise, it wont even be able to blow up a single ship of the fleet has more than 2 Logis.

I expected this to happen when we put the thing up but I thought I would at least have fun blowing up a few ships as the Citadel was being worked over. Nope. hah!

Tomorrow I will get to watch our armor be dismantled. :(

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=481789&find=unread
----


I would love to see a small POS do any better against the same fleet :P
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#35 - 2016-05-23 22:33:26 UTC
Return on investment is 100%. Unlike a POS, it doesn't require fuel to operate (only service modules require fuel to online and run). So for a monthly cost of zero ISK, it provides: unlimited space, free repairs, safe asset storage and docking. It has 100% offensive capabilities and is vulnerable for a grand total of 3 hours a week. It's basically an extremely large Mobile Depot...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Exaido
Fire Over Light
Astral Alliance
#36 - 2016-05-24 20:05:52 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Return on investment is 100%. Unlike a POS, it doesn't require fuel to operate (only service modules require fuel to online and run). So for a monthly cost of zero ISK, it provides: unlimited space, free repairs, safe asset storage and docking. It has 100% offensive capabilities and is vulnerable for a grand total of 3 hours a week. It's basically an extremely large Mobile Depot...


Good call and fair point. I've been using other people's Astrahus in high-sec, to drop back to during a mission for quick repairs, and getting back to field. It's extremely useful. To that regard, that it is ROI isn't exclusively determined by the ISK it generates but the ISK it can potentially save.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#37 - 2016-05-24 21:11:37 UTC
Exaido wrote:
Good call and fair point. I've been using other people's Astrahus in high-sec, to drop back to during a mission for quick repairs, and getting back to field. It's extremely useful. To that regard, that it is ROI isn't exclusively determined by the ISK it generates but the ISK it can potentially save.

Haven't we all... I love free ports.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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