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Ewar Ship Line Revamp
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Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-05-22 00:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
One of the largest obstacles to ship balance in EVE has been finding the fine line between minor ship balance and a holistic approach to class power and placement. It's one matter to find a good place for a ship to be reworked into, but how strong or weak it is relative to the multitude of other vessels it has to contend is a damningly difficult problem to tackle, and so quite a few of us (myself included) tend to focus on individual trees instead of the forest, so to speak.
For this thread, we will be looking at a suggestion of how to overhaul the entire electronic warfare ship line, from frigate to battleship, and t1 to t2. The goal of this post is to provide a clear and well-tuned progression of all the ewar ships in the game along similar lines to how CCP has been focusing on ship bonus and role progression as they have rebalanced their ships over the past many years.

As an outline, we will be splitting this thread into three sections that will cover changes to frigates, cruisers, and battleships.

  • The Frigates section will cover rebalancing the Electronic Attack Ships and Covert Ops Frigates to be the smaller cousins to the Force Recon and Combat Recon cruisers, and what roles and bonuses would be appropriate to reflect that without crowding out or obsoleting other ships affected by them that either perform similar roles or compete with them.

  • The Cruisers section will discuss the possibility of introducing a new exploration cruiser for each race to continue the line of the scan frigates, and replacing the t2 model and chassis for the Force Recon ships, in a similar fashion to the Command Ship rebalance changing which battlecruisers made the Absolution, Nighthawk, etc. It will also discuss improving the combat viability of Combat Recon ships in exchange for some ewar usability, giving more distinction between the two classes. Updating the Celestis and Blackbird to provide stronger firepower support in a similar fashion to the Arbitrator and Bellicose will also be discussed.

  • The Battleships section will cover updating the Scorpion Dominix and the Typhoon to fill the role of EWAR support battleships, in the same fashion as Armageddon in having a combat and electronic warfare bonus appropriate for their role. Black Ops battleships will discuss being updated via being split into two roles, naturally progressing from the Force Recon and Combat Recon classes. Current Black ops will gain a covert ops cloak but lose their ability to fit a covert jump portal generator, the role of which will be taken over by new t2 versions of the Abaddon, Hyperion, Maelstrom, and Rokh that will fill a role akin to the Combat Recon ships.

    • Bonuses and stats for the Electronic Attack Ships and Force Recon ships will remain the same as before. Covert Ops Frigates and Black Ops ships will be restructured heavily. This thread will update continually as i have time to write it over the next few days.
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #2 - 2016-05-22 00:13:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
    Covops frigates and Electronic Attack frigates, ideally, should be smaller stepping stones to the recon cruisers, and perform somewhat similar functions with attention to the power curve.

    Covops frigates should follow a more agile 'scouthip' role like the force recons do, with emphasis on engagement denial through ewar and the ability to effectively drop covert cynos and bridge in blops fleets like force recons do, while still retaining a distinct flavor. To that end, they'll be given a little bit more of a buff in the damage department and the ability to apply it, but won't approach greater dps numbers than their t1 frigate siblings.

    Electionic Attack frigates receive more of a fine-tuning with their role, each receiving a single (restrained) combat bonus. This is mainly to give them the ability to deal damage on their own while not being relegated exclusively to a support role. As a dscan immunity bonus would be extremely overpowered for any frigate, they'll receive a particularly high sensor strength for a frigate to make them more difficult to scan down or jam.

    AMARR:

    Anathema
    +1 high slot, +1 missile hardpoint, +10 base powergrid, +40m3 dronebay, +15 drone bandwidth,

    Amarr Frigate bonuses:
    5% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile damage per level
    10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity per level

    Covops Frigate bonuses:
    7.5% bonus to Weapon Disruptor effectiveness per level
    20% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU cost per level

    Role Bonus: can fit Covert Ops Cloak and Covert Cyno Generator

    Sentinel
    +20 Radar sensor strength, +20% cap regen time, +5 drone bandwidth

    Amarr Frigate bonuses:
    20% bonus to Energy Nos/Neut drain amount per level
    7.5% bonus to weapon disruptor effectiveness per level

    EA Frigate bonuses:
    80% bonus to Energy Nos/Neut optimal range per level
    10% bonus to drone HP and drone mwd speed per level

    CALDARI:

    Buzzard
    +1 high slot, +2 turret hardpoints, +6 base powergrid, +35m3 drone bay, +15 drone bandwidth

    Caldari Frigate bonuses:
    5% bonus to small hybrid turret damage per level
    10% bonus to small hybrid turret range per level

    Covops Frigate bonuses:
    15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level
    20% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU cost per level

    Role Bonus: can fit Covert Ops Cloak and Covert Cyno Generator

    Kitsune:
    +20 Gravametric Sensor Strength

    Caldari Frigate bonuses:
    20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level
    10% bonus to ECM Target Jammer activation cost per level

    EA Frigate bonuses:
    15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range per level
    10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile Kinetic Damage per level

    GALLENTE:

    Helios:
    +5 Powergrid, +35m3 drone bay, +15 drone bandwidth

    Gallente Frigate bonuses:
    10% bonus to drone hp and mwd speed per level
    7.5% bonus to sensor dampener effectiveness per level

    Covops Frigate bonuses:
    10% bonus to sensor dampener activation cost per level
    20% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU cost per level

    Role Bonus: can fit Covert Ops Cloak and Covert Cyno Generator

    Keres:
    +20 Magnetometric sensor strength, +10 drone bandwidth, +20m3 drone bay

    Bonuses remain unchanged

    MINMATAR

    Cheetah
    +1 high slot, +1 turret hardpoint, +15 powergrid, +35m3 drone bay, +15 drone bandwidth

    Minmatar Frigate bonuses:
    10% bonus to Small Projectile optimal range per level
    5% bonus to Small Projectile damage per level

    Covops Frigate bonuses
    7.5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness per level
    20% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU cost per level

    Role Bonus: can fit Covert Ops Cloak and Covert Cyno Generator

    Hyena
    +20 Ladar sensor strength, +1 missile hardpoint, -2 turret hardpoints

    Minmatar Frigate bonuses
    10% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness per level
    10% bonus to Target Painter optimal range per level

    EA Frigate bonuses:
    40% bonus to Stasis Webifier optimal range per level
    10% bonus to Rocket and Light missile Explosive damage per level


    NOTE: capacitor levels of all the covops frigates will be changed to match their t1 counterparts. Resist levels will remain the same.
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #3 - 2016-05-22 00:14:08 UTC
    Reserved for Cruiser Thread
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #4 - 2016-05-22 00:14:56 UTC
    Reserved for Battleship thread
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #5 - 2016-05-22 00:20:54 UTC
    none of these changes are needed. we do not need to make all races have the same ship progression there does not need and should not be a cov ops e-war frig. you do not need a scanning cruiser beyond the soe. the combat recons are already much better at tank and damage than the force. the t1 e-war cruisers do not need better combat potential

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Sean Parisi
    Blackrise Vanguard
    #6 - 2016-05-22 22:56:36 UTC
    Honestly what I would rather see is two more combat battle ship added for Caldari & Amar and then two E-War focused Battleships for Galletne / Minmatar
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #7 - 2016-05-24 06:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
    Sean Parisi wrote:
    Honestly what I would rather see is two more combat battle ship added for Caldari & Amar and then two E-War focused Battleships for Galletne / Minmatar



    why?
    and
    when it comes to e-war only the caldari has one so why have you divided it up like this?

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #8 - 2016-05-24 06:42:22 UTC
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
    none of these changes are needed. we do not need to make all races have the same ship progression there does not need and should not be a cov ops e-war frig. you do not need a scanning cruiser beyond the soe. the combat recons are already much better at tank and damage than the force. the t1 e-war cruisers do not need better combat potential

    I'm a bit confused at your line of thinking here. "We do not need to make all races have the same ship progression" is a very vague statement, since as far as i can tell it means that you're actively denying how half a decade of ship balancing has focused exclusively on that very thing. Please clarify what you mean by that.

    Also, covert ops frigates perform the valuable role of cloaky scouting and data/relic site hacking, of which is done significantly better by the SoE ships. While you can believe that they have their own particular niche with site hacking and scouting/covert cyno dropping, fitting them and EA frigs into a closer role together makes very clear sense relative to how they interact with other ships. The statement that we don't need a cheap t1 exploration cruiser to me is silly, as exploration is a cornerstone of gameplay in eve, and it shouldn't just be limited to the more expensive and advanced vessels. I think t1 exploration cruisers would be welcomed with open arms by the community, as they would see plenty of use.

    I'm going to post the frigate thread in a bit here, and hopefully that can clear some things up. Combat ability of the updated covops frigs would be negligable to compensate for their covops cloak, but would have more fitting space than before and focus more on ewar 'support', rather than attack.
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #9 - 2016-05-24 08:00:12 UTC
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
    Sean Parisi wrote:
    Honestly what I would rather see is two more combat battle ship added for Caldari & Amar and then two E-War focused Battleships for Galletne / Minmatar



    why?
    and
    when it comes to e-war only the caldari has one so why have you divided it up like this?

    The Armageddon is *technically* an ewar battleship with the neut range bonus, and it was stated long ago during the initial battleship balance pass that ewar battleships were a progression route they were thinking about going, but were unsure as to whether or not to make new battleships or change the old ones.
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #10 - 2016-05-24 15:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
    nuets are not E-war....

    but if you want to count them as e-war then ecm and nuets are the only e-war that have battleship mods so it makes seance that they have battleships with bonuses


    and for frigates cov ops e-war frigs break blops balance

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #11 - 2016-05-24 19:08:42 UTC
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:


    and for frigates cov ops e-war frigs break blops balance

    You're being vague again. What exactly are you trying to say?
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #12 - 2016-05-24 20:15:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
    that being able to bridge a bunch of frig massed e-war ships is broken. i doubt recons would ever be used in that role again

    and why should scanning frigs be removed?

    not to mention that sensor bonus is broken

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Sean Parisi
    Blackrise Vanguard
    #13 - 2016-05-25 18:20:11 UTC
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
    Sean Parisi wrote:
    Honestly what I would rather see is two more combat battle ship added for Caldari & Amar and then two E-War focused Battleships for Galletne / Minmatar



    why?
    and
    when it comes to e-war only the caldari has one so why have you divided it up like this?


    More options are good of they can have purpose. Armageddon is essentially e-war and combat. Gallente could recieve and ewar drone bonus (once they are made useful) or something to do with sensor damps and point range. Minmatar could get target painter again or something more creative. But as someonr who is a big fan of ewar it is something i would love to see in some capacity.
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #14 - 2016-05-25 18:29:10 UTC
    problem is the trade off for ewar is tank only reason it works for caldari is it has to give up its tank for its e-war the other races don't and again there is battleship nuets and battleship ecm so it makes seance ships are made to use them. besides other than damps all forms of e-war are already represented in the battlship line

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble