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CCP continuing to "penalize" players 24/7

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Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#21 - 2016-05-21 09:54:01 UTC
Caim Naberius wrote:
what?

OP is making fun of people who are pissed off about CCP offering 10k extra SP to characters for each day that they log in and kill at least one NPC.
Titti Sabezan
SYNDIC Unlimited
#22 - 2016-05-21 16:23:21 UTC
3 possible things :-

1) As an alternative, CCP could just deduct the SP from any account that doesn't log in during a day (downtime to downtime). SPs would then come off the skill with the highest total, or the one with the highest skill level, or some other criterion.

2) Amend the criterion for getting the SPs, from "Kill an NPC rat" to "KIll a PC ship" -- make this kill immune from CONCARN retaliation and extend it to hi-sec, and watch the carebears run for cover. NOTE: the victim would not get an SP bonus for being killed, and arguably ought to lose SP instead, as an additional penalty, if the killmail doesn't show he fought back.

3) Add as a criterion, buy/sell something for more than 1M isk (that should satisfy the traders)


Signed
A Carebear
Memphis Baas
#23 - 2016-05-21 17:28:49 UTC
You're trying to change the intended effect, which apparently is "undock and spend some time in space, give PVP'ers a chance to shoot you."

For example, if they gave 10,000 points for "Do 100 Project Discovery slides while orbiting an asteroid in a belt uncloaked" that would be more along the lines of what CCP seems to want. You're spending time being a target in a belt, and that big PD screen blocks most of your view, so you're a really easy target.
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#24 - 2016-05-21 17:36:00 UTC
Sooo, everyone on eve forums hate it, and everyone on reddit loves it. lol
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#25 - 2016-05-21 18:17:28 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
You're trying to change the intended effect, which apparently is "undock and spend some time in space, give PVP'ers a chance to shoot you."

For example, if they gave 10,000 points for "Do 100 Project Discovery slides while orbiting an asteroid in a belt uncloaked" that would be more along the lines of what CCP seems to want. You're spending time being a target in a belt, and that big PD screen blocks most of your view, so you're a really easy target.



Which why i would make it harder than it is.

You would have the choice of several opportunities:

1) For every 50 isk of bounty you kill( so gross bounty) you get 1 sp up to 10k per day
2) For every 1000 isk of value of player ship you destroy( Total isk value of ship and mods divided by all on KM equally) you earn 1 SP up to 15k SP per day( PVPers get a bonus cause this is a pvp game and PVP requires A LOT more skills than killing a rat) This counts for any player structures as well: citadels, POS structures, sov structures, personal structures such as MTU.
3) For every 10 m3 of ore you mine in highsec, 5 m3 in low, or 2 m3 in null you earn 1 SP up to 10k
4) For every 5 relic/data sites in high sec, 2 in low, 1 in null), you complete you earn 5k sp up to 10k sp per day.
5) For every Wormhole you jump through you earn 1000 sp up to 10k sp. Jumping through from each side of the WH only counts once every 5 minutes, so using the same WH you would have to do this for 25 minutes.

You must accept each one to make it active for the day. you may accept all of them at once. Only the first one completed counts.
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#26 - 2016-05-21 18:36:00 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Would have been simpler to start charging 10k SP for every badpost...

Hmmm, wonder what happens when I go into negative skillpoints.


a biomass :p


i feel the op doesn't understand why ppl are so bothered by this as his examples are apples and oranges.

the biggest issue in the comparison being you can get isk and LP in many different ways dailies will be the only way to make SP outside of the passive train. and even if it is just one rat it is still grinding for levels. what was good about eve is you didn't need to do that to keep on par



"Keep on par" with who?
The guy that already has more than 100 millions SP?
The guy that is spending billions of isk in skill injectors?
The guy with +5 implants?
The guy that is buying multiple pilots certificates for all his alts?
or
The guy that started yesterday?
The PvPer that never use stat boosting implants?
The guy that is selling his skill points trough skill extractors?
The guy that is unsubbed?

People already earn SP in EVE at different speeds. This "kill a rat" thing is approximately the same as having +5 implants. And let's be honest, after you have mastered the needed ship classes, more SP don't make you better at it, they only broaden the kinds of actions you can do and the number of ships you can use.

What is important is to keep the cap at 10K SP/day, regardless of the number of dailies you do, while allowing different actions for people interested in different kinds of play.
If you are a trader putting up a buy or sell order should give the same deal, once a day 10K SP, but, to repeat it, even if you do multiple dailies the toal SP gained shouldn't be more than 10K SP.
People ear
ube smoked
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2016-05-21 18:39:21 UTC
CCP = Making content for null.
Reality = Nobody is in null.
CCP = But it makes for great videos!
Reality = Nobody cares.

I'm amazed this has been going on for so long. CCP has zero insight. They are lost.
Galaxxis
The Regency
The Monarchy
#28 - 2016-05-21 18:42:42 UTC
ube smoked wrote:
CCP = Making content for null.
Reality = Nobody is in null.
CCP = But it makes for great videos!
Reality = Nobody cares.

I'm amazed this has been going on for so long. CCP has zero insight. They are lost.


Do you even know where you are right now? It sounds a lot like you've never played this game.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#29 - 2016-05-21 18:49:03 UTC
ube smoked wrote:
CCP = Making content for null.
Reality = Nobody is in null.
CCP = But it makes for great videos!
Reality = Nobody cares.

I'm amazed this has been going on for so long. CCP has zero insight. They are lost.


Thats interesting because the 0.0 system i just logged out of on my main had 65 alliance members in it. The one next door had about 35 and thats only 2 of our systems. You would be hard pressed to find a system that doesnt have an alliance member in. We also have frequent "guest" some of which pretend its a campground because we are taking or took their space so they think camping us in a system is actually doing something.

All the content in this game that actually matters happens in null. No one cares about the carebears in high sec. Most of those you see in high sec are alts of null players. We use them to shop, mission, grief actual high sec residents, or just take a little vacation in carebear land.

If you removed the alts of null sec players from high sec, it would be a pretty desolate place.
Genoir
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-05-21 23:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Genoir
Quote:

Ok, here is a lesson in economics so that you can understand why people are unhappy with this. To clarify I disagree with the concept of rewards based around logging in completely, players should want to login anyway and if you need to incentivise players to login to the game using cheap tricks, then you should take a good look at the game in general to figure out why people don't want to play in the first place.

And to the question, the reason people are unhappy with using SP as a reward is that it devalues SP.

To give you this as an example as it me be more easily understandable.

Let us say you earn £20,000 a year, and there is £1billion in the total economy in circulation. The bank decides to print off another £1billion effectively doubling the amount of money in the economy.

If you are following you have probably realised that your previous salary of £20,000 per year is now actually worth £10,000 year despite the fact that you are not actually losing any physical money and are still on a salary of £20,000 per year.

You also had £100,000 in saving which you had worked hard to save up for putting away half your salary each year for the past ten years. This again is now actually only worth £50,000 effectively halving your investment in real terms.

Now apply this to skill points. In order to keep up with our current salary (SP/hour), we now being told we need to login to kill a rat every day. If your boss told you that you need to stay behind at work for another 3 hours for the same salary, then I expect you may feel like he is penalising you wouldn't you?

Like I said though, for me it is just the fact that CCP is using this lame mechanic in order to get people to login rather than working on making a fundamentally good game. The fact that they are linking the reward soley to one of the most boring PvE activities in the game just shows how poorly thought out the idea really is.


You know that's not how it works right? Possibly the single worst example you could have made.

Your 'lesson in economics' aside. The analogy about working an additional 3 hours to get the same salary is also woefully incorrect.

You'll continue to receive your standard 'salary' but you are being given the chance to get paid 3 hours 'overtime' for staying 5 minutes late.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#31 - 2016-05-22 02:16:45 UTC
Genoir wrote:
Quote:

Ok, here is a lesson in economics so that you can understand why people are unhappy with this. To clarify I disagree with the concept of rewards based around logging in completely, players should want to login anyway and if you need to incentivise players to login to the game using cheap tricks, then you should take a good look at the game in general to figure out why people don't want to play in the first place.

And to the question, the reason people are unhappy with using SP as a reward is that it devalues SP.

To give you this as an example as it me be more easily understandable.

Let us say you earn £20,000 a year, and there is £1billion in the total economy in circulation. The bank decides to print off another £1billion effectively doubling the amount of money in the economy.

If you are following you have probably realised that your previous salary of £20,000 per year is now actually worth £10,000 year despite the fact that you are not actually losing any physical money and are still on a salary of £20,000 per year.

You also had £100,000 in saving which you had worked hard to save up for putting away half your salary each year for the past ten years. This again is now actually only worth £50,000 effectively halving your investment in real terms.

Now apply this to skill points. In order to keep up with our current salary (SP/hour), we now being told we need to login to kill a rat every day. If your boss told you that you need to stay behind at work for another 3 hours for the same salary, then I expect you may feel like he is penalising you wouldn't you?

Like I said though, for me it is just the fact that CCP is using this lame mechanic in order to get people to login rather than working on making a fundamentally good game. The fact that they are linking the reward soley to one of the most boring PvE activities in the game just shows how poorly thought out the idea really is.


You know that's not how it works right? Possibly the single worst example you could have made.

Your 'lesson in economics' aside. The analogy about working an additional 3 hours to get the same salary is also woefully incorrect.

You'll continue to receive your standard 'salary' but you are being given the chance to get paid 3 hours 'overtime' for staying 5 minutes late.

Your not understanding the concept of inflation which will mean that SP is devalued. So yes you have an extra 300k more SP if you login everyday, but relatively the SP will be worth less than this.
Hawke Frost
#32 - 2016-05-22 02:23:34 UTC
ube smoked wrote:
CCP = Making content for null.
Reality = Nobody is in null.
CCP = But it makes for great videos!
Reality = Nobody cares.

I'm amazed this has been going on for so long. CCP has zero insight. They are lost.


Lots of people are in null, just not the ones who got driven out these last few weeks.
Memphis Baas
#33 - 2016-05-22 03:04:53 UTC
ube smoked wrote:
I'm amazed this has been going on for so long. CCP has zero insight. They are lost.


People who make these kinds of statements actually mean "CCP isn't listening to ME, and that's the problem."

The very fact that the game is still alive after 13 years proves they have greater-than-zero insight. There are several MMO's that have closed down, and several others that have been "rescued" not by feature releases (like EVE), but by tricks like microtransactions.

---

Also, this type of drama posting doesn't quite work; it's too easy to disprove.

Case in point: if I say that you have zero brain cells, you can bring all sorts of MRI and CT scans proving you have at least a few million. It's also common sense anatomy that you have more than a few, if you're alive. On the other hand, if I say that you're stupid... well, that's harder to disprove, and thus is a better quality post on my part.
Blue Macaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2016-05-22 03:21:35 UTC
I'd never say no to free SP :3
TackyTachy1
Doomheim
#35 - 2016-05-22 04:22:09 UTC
Are we even playing the same game? I can't play/access any of my accounts until after logging in and allowing CCP to prime my computer with whatever it deems necessary for me to play the game. Is there actually a way the game can be played without the loggon ritual?

Forum Rep for a bunch of characters, couple corps and one seriously Lost In Space multiboxer.
Raz Muesin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2016-05-22 04:56:46 UTC
You are bitching they are giving away free sp?

Now I rarely care for free crap, but you have to admit that marketing angle works. I have seen people line up for almost 2 hours for pancakes..... ******* pancakes. Calgary is a well off, modern city and during stampede, the thought of little free flour eggs and milk make you skip work and stand in a line up for stupid amounts of time. I will admit, the first year I worked down town, I lined up twice... but never ******* again.

But every year those lines never got smaller. People want free ****, and if it entices a few extra players to play, oh well. Plus, you need to keep those marketing people feeling like they are contributing.
ISD Buldath
#37 - 2016-05-22 06:07:18 UTC
Quote:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.


Look at that, you made me log in just to deal with this. How dare you. Locked.

~ISD Buldath

Instructor King of the Forums! Knight of the General Discussion

Support, Training and Resources Division

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE-Mails regarding forum moderation.
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