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My petition to make Novice Plex access restricted to T1 frigates only
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Maekchu
Doomheim
#81 - 2016-05-19 04:45:40 UTC
Having done my share of both plexing and pirate PvP in T1 frigates, I'd say that your proposal will change nothing.

Newbies will still be smacked around, but with your changes they will just feel even more discouraged, cause they are losing in plexes that are supposed to be for 'newbies'.

If it was up to me, I'd just rename the 'novice' to 'micro', but keep the restrictions as they are. The size of the plex have nothing to do with how good the players sitting in them are. It just means there are restrictions on ship classes.

Regarding FW being more newbie friendly, I have to say that FW is already extremely newbie friendly. You can get risk-free ISK by d-plexing and you can get somewhat risk-free ISK when o-plexing. You just need to find quiet systems and watch your d-scan. Whenever something appears on the d-scan you don't want to fight, you just warp out and go somewhere else.

That being said, it is always nice to get some PvP action, since plexing on its own is mind-numbingly boring.

Not sure if this is correct, but I get the understanding that the OP is trying to solo PvP. This is probably one of the activities that are least newbie friendly, since it is extremely skill intensive and you need some experience to know what to engage.

So my advice for newbies is always the same. Find a newbie friendly corp that does what you like to do. If it's PvP, then newbies are extremely useful and effective in support EWAR roles in small-gang. Eventually when your skills increase and your knowledge of the game increases as well, you will eventually be able to do some solo PvP. But you need to crawl before you walk.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2016-05-19 04:50:56 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Having done my share of both plexing and pirate PvP in T1 frigates, I'd say that your proposal will change nothing.

Newbies will still be smacked around, but with your changes they will just feel even more discouraged, cause they are losing in plexes that are supposed to be for 'newbies'.

If it was up to me, I'd just rename the 'novice' to 'micro', but keep the restrictions as they are. The size of the plex have nothing to do with how good the players sitting in them are. It just means there are restrictions on ship classes.

Regarding FW being more newbie friendly, I have to say that FW is already extremely newbie friendly. You can get risk-free ISK by d-plexing and you can get somewhat risk-free ISK when o-plexing. You just need to find quiet systems and watch your d-scan. Whenever something appears on the d-scan you don't want to fight, you just warp out and go somewhere else.

That being said, it is always nice to get some PvP action, since plexing on its own is mind-numbingly boring.

Not sure if this is correct, but I get the understanding that the OP is trying to solo PvP. This is probably one of the activities that are least newbie friendly, since it is extremely skill intensive and you need some experience to know what to engage.

So my advice for newbies is always the same. Find a newbie friendly corp that does what you like to do. If it's PvP, then newbies are extremely useful and effective in support EWAR roles in small-gang. Eventually when your skills increase and your knowledge of the game increases as well, you will eventually be able to do some solo PvP. But you need to crawl before you walk.


You are right it's easy to do FW as you said.

Enter a plex stabbed and warp out everytime someone shows.

This is not PvP imo.

It's a extremely boring grinding teaching almost nothing and making newbbies to hate this game very quickly and to look elsewhere sure nothing can be more boring than Eve...
Maekchu
Doomheim
#83 - 2016-05-19 04:59:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
You are right it's easy to do FW as you said.

Enter a plex stabbed and warp out everytime someone shows.

This is not PvP imo.

It's a extremely boring grinding teaching almost nothing and making newbbies to hate this game very quickly and to look elsewhere sure nothing can be more boring than Eve...

Which is why I told you, that the best advice for a newbie is to find a good corp that does what you like to do.

From the sound of it, you seem to enjoy solo PvP (or at least is what you aspire to do in the game). The PvP form, that is somewhat close to that is small-gang PvP. Now you just need to find a corp that does that. You can do a lot in a small-gang with low skills and with the proper ship.

Like I mentioned, solo PvP is not very newbie friendly and yes, spinning beacons is pretty boring. But this is all tackled by finding a good corp to fly with.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2016-05-19 05:11:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Lollipops
As I already said, this petition is not for me only.

I have several accounts and alts, I mine, I live in a WH, I do and enjoy very much exploration and I am in a corp.

I also tried a FW corp with one of my alts, and I had a bitter impression it was more a business to sell overpriced ships to novices for corp CEO advantage, but it's another topic.

What I'm trying to have veterans that want this game to last for the next years with the help of new players joining it is that, supposing FW is the first step to learn PvP for a total new player, the way it is notwwill make new players to quit, I have no doubts about it, I tried it with a newly done char and, if I was a newbie in this game, I would have left.

This game is already very difficult, not user friendly at all, most ( not all but most ) of veterans are elitist and don't care about newbies at all, thinking game belongs to them only and no one can dare to change it, so newbies really need help and support from the few players that want them to enjoy the game and have a real chance to experience it in a decently funny way.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2016-05-19 05:19:54 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
"As for the reason I don't fly T1 frigs very often ... I like my Daredevil better. Or did you expect we'd all park our rides for Your benefit?"

This is the topic, exactly this.

Even if CCP gives a low LP plex, even if you will camp the gate, even if you have more experience you would never be happy, you would always ask and demand to have total advantage.


As should you. Don't we all need every advantage we can get? "advantage" doesn't always equal "ship" though -- it can be knowledge of game mechanics, of the people that inhibit New Eden, ...


Lucy Lollipops wrote:

It's not you park your wonderful shining rides for our benefit.

It's veterans want novices to play the game at their own benefit, nothing else is acceptable.

Great attitude!


Hate to break it to you, but it really doesn't get any more novice than T1/pirate frigs. The next step wouldn't even be a complex but a series of 10 especially designed PvP missions in the new Opportunities system, using a toned-down burner.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#86 - 2016-05-19 05:20:42 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
What I'm trying to have veterans that want this game to last for the next years with the help of new players joining it is that, supposing FW is the first step to learn PvP for a total new player, they way it is not will make new players to quit, I have no doubts about it, I tried it with a newly done char and, if I was a newbie in this game, I would have left very very quickly.

This game is already very difficult, not user friendly at all, most ( not all but most ) of veterans are elitist, so newbies really need help and support from the few players that want them to enjoy the game and have a real chance to experience it in a decently funny way.

Yeah, I understand your intentions. I'm just saying, that making a plex that allows only T1 frigates will change nothing. Many vets like to roam around in T1 frigates, because if flown correct some T1 frigates are actually quite powerful and can kill some faction frigs. Especially in FW plexes, where you get to decide you initial engagement range.

And we keep coming back to my advice that I always give newbies. Find a good newbie friendly corp. Finding a good corp will solve all the issues you described above. Going solo in EvE is not the most newbie friendly way to play EvE. If you want to help other newbies, tell them to find a good corp. There are many newbie friendly corps out there. I cannot stress enough, how important it is for newbies to find a good corp. Did I mention that newbies should find newbie friendly corp, in order to help them get the hang of the game?
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#87 - 2016-05-19 05:22:21 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein

Just look up to the previous post Blink

This game doesn't belong to players like you only....
Theroine
Pew Pew Pirates
#88 - 2016-05-19 05:36:43 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
Theroine wrote:


A huge part of this game is learning situational awareness. If I'm flying an Atron and there is a Worm outside my plex, I probably shouldn't take the fight. I don't need a new level of plex to help me. I need to help myself. If there were plexes where only T1 frigs could enter, no Faction, new players would still get owned by players with more experience at pvp.


You say that players would still be owned by veterans in a plex only for t1 frigates?

What I think is that 98% of veterans would not go inside them, and you know why?

Because they go into novice with pirate/faction with implants, links and so on because they know they can easily win.

There is no other reason for a non FW player to enter a novice with a t1 inside, maybe belonging to a young player ( novices like me generally don't rename ships....)

Most of "veterans" play to collect lines in the zkillboard....

What would probably happen is they would try to camp the entrance of new plexes hoping to kill the t1 before they enter it.

And this in my opinion is the reason this game is struggling to keep newbies playing.

CCP is trying to advertise the game, they should begin with basics, making camping harder and FW doable for new players, it's exploited mechanics that keep newbies away from Eve imo, and novice plexes exploitation is one of them.


I play this game because I enjoy it and I enjoy the people I play with. I don't like losing ships, who does, but at the end of the day I could give a crap about killboard rankings. Like people have mentioned over and over, your suggestion would do nothing to prevent more knowledgeable and more skilled players from killing you. At this point, you are just trolling or are beyond help. Good luck in your Eve life. o7

Join in on the pew
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#89 - 2016-05-19 06:37:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Lollipops
Theroine wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
Theroine wrote:


A huge part of this game is learning situational awareness. If I'm flying an Atron and there is a Worm outside my plex, I probably shouldn't take the fight. I don't need a new level of plex to help me. I need to help myself. If there were plexes where only T1 frigs could enter, no Faction, new players would still get owned by players with more experience at pvp.


You say that players would still be owned by veterans in a plex only for t1 frigates?

What I think is that 98% of veterans would not go inside them, and you know why?

Because they go into novice with pirate/faction with implants, links and so on because they know they can easily win.

There is no other reason for a non FW player to enter a novice with a t1 inside, maybe belonging to a young player ( novices like me generally don't rename ships....)

Most of "veterans" play to collect lines in the zkillboard....

What would probably happen is they would try to camp the entrance of new plexes hoping to kill the t1 before they enter it.

And this in my opinion is the reason this game is struggling to keep newbies playing.

CCP is trying to advertise the game, they should begin with basics, making camping harder and FW doable for new players, it's exploited mechanics that keep newbies away from Eve imo, and novice plexes exploitation is one of them.


I play this game because I enjoy it and I enjoy the people I play with. I don't like losing ships, who does, but at the end of the day I could give a crap about killboard rankings. Like people have mentioned over and over, your suggestion would do nothing to prevent more knowledgeable and more skilled players from killing you. At this point, you are just trolling or are beyond help. Good luck in your Eve life. o7


Well, not everyone says it would change nothing actually.

I see persons agreeing about it or about changing some FW mechanics to make it decent for newbies.

This game is not friendly to newbies, but I'm aware to change whole game mechanics is undoable.

While to make existing mechanics a bit more friendly is something doable....to do a new plex or to simply exclude faction/pirate names frigate from novice is easily doable.

Anyway, you know one of the reasons I am still answering here?

Today when I logged there were about 19.5k accounts online...

I play 3 accounts at once, 2 mining and one for play ( exploration, pve, fw and so on...)

Supposing a average player hasnot 3 like me but 2 accounts, there were 10k players online.

I'm not a expert of videogames, but if I was a game developer of a 13 yers old game and I see 10k players online only, I would be EXTREMELY worried and I would do EVERYTHING to attract new players to the game.

So no, I am not trolling, I am worried about health of this game and trying to help for the little I can writing on the official forum with something I think it's a base for a doable change.

Edit: Theroine, I gave a look at your Zkillboard, your favourite gameplay seems to go with faction frigate in 2 vs. 1, basically you go with a friend on a more powerful ship against t1 frigates, it's in lowsec so I suppose your favourite PVP is a very fair play in novices, correct? 2 faction frigates inside novice agains one t1 frigate, very funny for you too for sure. Blink
Maekchu
Doomheim
#90 - 2016-05-19 06:48:07 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
Anyway, you know one of the reasons I am still answering here?

Today when I logged there were about 19.5k accounts online...

I play 3 accounts at once, 2 mining and one for play ( exploration, pve, fw and so on...)

Supposing a average player hasnot 3 like me but 2 accounts, there were 10k players online.

I'm not a expert of videogames, but if I was a game developer of a 13 yers old game and I see 10k players online only, I would be EXTREMELY worried and I would do EVERYTHING to attract new players to the game.

So no, I am not trolling, I am worried about health of this game and trying to help for the little I can writing on the official forum with something I think it's a base for a doable change.

around 20k is during AUTZ. It's pretty normal to have lower numbers. EvE usually hits around 35k during primetime.

Anyway, EvE is not dying. So let's not turn this thread into a discussion about that. EvE is a niche game, so you will never see the same numbers as the more popular themepark MMOs, since this type of game is not very mainstream friendly.

And really... Making plexes that only allows T1 frigs will not change anything. I believe, you have not played enough FW to understand this point. To give newbies a good introduction to the game, you really need to tell them to find a good corporation instead.
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2016-05-19 07:39:48 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:


There is no other reason for a non FW player to enter a novice with a t1 inside, maybe belonging to a young player ( novices like me generally don't rename ships....)

Most of "veterans" play to collect lines in the zkillboard....




i can hardly imagine an easier way to collect lines in zkill than going inside one of these plexes of yours and stomp a few newbros tbh


Btw, my most successful solo pvp ship is the Slicer. In it I engage t1 frigs, AFs, navy frigs, pirate frigs, dessies, the occasional cruiser if i see it's piloted by a newbro, solo pilots, duos, small gangs, whatever.

Next one? A simple Atron. I decommissioned one and just keep it in the hanger 'cause i got attached to it after 15 solo kills, which i think is still my record of solo kills before a hull gets blown to pieces.

But, more generally. You make it sound like veterans only fly pirate frigs, and that's all you meet in FW space. That's very far from the truth, and a blatant overexageration. If you want a plex to feel "safe", sorry, it's not the game for you. In EVE you're not safe, and sometimes (often) you gotta run. If you had this special plex of yours, it wouldn't be pirate or navy frigs (the latter being perfectly killable in a simple t1, the former being tougher but possible), it would be 2 or more t1s while you're solo. Makes no difference really.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#92 - 2016-05-19 08:55:15 UTC
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:


There is no other reason for a non FW player to enter a novice with a t1 inside, maybe belonging to a young player ( novices like me generally don't rename ships....)

Most of "veterans" play to collect lines in the zkillboard....




i can hardly imagine an easier way to collect lines in zkill than going inside one of these plexes of yours and stomp a few newbros tbh


Btw, my most successful solo pvp ship is the Slicer. In it I engage t1 frigs, AFs, navy frigs, pirate frigs, dessies, the occasional cruiser if i see it's piloted by a newbro, solo pilots, duos, small gangs, whatever.

Next one? A simple Atron. I decommissioned one and just keep it in the hanger 'cause i got attached to it after 15 solo kills, which i think is still my record of solo kills before a hull gets blown to pieces.

But, more generally. You make it sound like veterans only fly pirate frigs, and that's all you meet in FW space. That's very far from the truth, and a blatant overexageration. If you want a plex to feel "safe", sorry, it's not the game for you. In EVE you're not safe, and sometimes (often) you gotta run. If you had this special plex of yours, it wouldn't be pirate or navy frigs (the latter being perfectly killable in a simple t1, the former being tougher but possible), it would be 2 or more t1s while you're solo. Makes no difference really.


I really don't want a plex to feel safer, to feel safer is very easy just fit a tormentor with stabs and fly in the plex, diagonal to be 28 km far and it's done, 1au dscan and if anyone shows you warp out.

Very very safe, there are many videos on Youtube about is, suggesting nebies to do it.

I tried it, with a new char, it's easy and boring, even more boring than mining because you need to dscan all time...

What I would like is simply to give newbies ( not me actually, I do many many other things in game ) the chance of some fair fights, or at least to give them the chance of trying to kill other ships.

Anyway, your post with some ships suggestions is more constructive than the posts like "hey! you want me to renounce using my shining pirate faction? don't dare! I am a veteran, newbies need to give me 100 zkills before leaving disgusted by this game or ( one over a million ) keep playing here!"
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2016-05-19 09:07:56 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:




What I would like is simply to give newbies ( not me actually, I do many many other things in game ) the chance of some fair fights, or at least to give them the chance of trying to kill other ships.



but you have that chance already, it's just hidden beneath a pile in intricacies and knowledge you don't master yet.
Again, pirate frigs aren't that commonly flown, despite what you think, mostly because they usually bring massive blue balls and no fights. I would say the most dangerous pilots actually tend to fly underrated ships to get more action, of for the thrill of killing a superior ship while (in theory) outgunned.

The reality is you have a mix of pretty much anything flying in space, but you are still inexperienced so you don't exactly know what ship in which fit can kill what. That only comes with time and fighting those ships, not by having baby plexes.

Why don't you start posting your usual fits, plenty of guys here me included would be happy to point out their pros and cons and what they should engage and what they should run from and how you can improve them :)
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2016-05-19 09:14:01 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
I am a veteran, newbies need to give me 100 zkills before leaving disgusted by this game or ( one over a million ) keep playing here!"
If you enjoy this crazy game, losses only make you a better player.

And 100 losses are nothing. Here's the stats of the last couple of posters ITT:

. Me: 678 losses
. Theroine: 1.839 losses
. Knuckles: 424 losses
. Maekchu: 359 losses

We're still here and still fighting. I'm also still fairly bad at PVP (can't speak for the others, except Knuckles who definitely sucks :P).


You're not even on zkill, btw. How many ships did you sacrifice before feeling entitled to changing game mechanics?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#95 - 2016-05-19 09:26:30 UTC
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:




What I would like is simply to give newbies ( not me actually, I do many many other things in game ) the chance of some fair fights, or at least to give them the chance of trying to kill other ships.



but you have that chance already, it's just hidden beneath a pile in intricacies and knowledge you don't master yet.
Again, pirate frigs aren't that commonly flown, despite what you think, mostly because they usually bring massive blue balls and no fights. I would say the most dangerous pilots actually tend to fly underrated ships to get more action, of for the thrill of killing a superior ship while (in theory) outgunned.

The reality is you have a mix of pretty much anything flying in space, but you are still inexperienced so you don't exactly know what ship in which fit can kill what. That only comes with time and fighting those ships, not by having baby plexes.

Why don't you start posting your usual fits, plenty of guys here me included would be happy to point out their pros and cons and what they should engage and what they should run from and how you can improve them :)


I made another post asking suggestions, it's here, and feel free to answer:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=481246&find=unread

@Gully

My FW experience was like that:

I tried FW couple of months ago, ending up in a strange situation where FW corp was basically a market for ships, quite expensive and with novices coming and going all time, I took a pause for some exporation that I enjoyed much.

Weeks ago I tried on a new too, I've lost about 15 ships trying to pvp in plexes, and I clearly saw how is the situation. Then I put some more stufff into bases near FW zone and I experienced how "veterans" of opposite faction love to park their ships inside bases in hisec where they can spend their days waiting for novices that still don't know how to make safe undocks.
So they wait for them to undock, kill them using 500/600 mil overpowered ships docking immediately afterwards, repeating the cycle several times everyday.

In the middle I tried out "defensive plexing" and I find it extremely boring.

I transfered 500 mils to my FW char but I played as I was a new toon, honestly if I didn't know many mechanics already I would be ended up with zero isk and totally frustrated, probably leaving the game if not lucky enough to find a good corp ( that's not so easy, and not talking about the wardec mechanics many corps suffer....).
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2016-05-19 09:53:41 UTC
You have to live in lowsec.

As for corps, try any of these (several will take newbros, not sure which though, just ask):

Gallente: https://zkillboard.com/faction/500004/top/

Caldari: https://zkillboard.com/faction/500001/top/

You can find Minmatar or Amarr the same way.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
eddie valvetino
Bi-Polar Bears
#97 - 2016-05-19 13:44:59 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Git gud. Lrn2dscan and process intel. Also learn how to get your pod out. HTFU too because if CCP does that you're gonna say "ONE MORE NERF" with only t1 fittings required for novices then another "ONE MORE NERF" with only shitfit t1 frigs allowed.


To be fair dude...

the OP claimed to be a Novice, sooo scanning and the like are things that come with expirence,

Normally, i rip these sorts of posts, but in this case I gotta say.. dude as a point.

OP

if i may offer some advise.

1. Use D-Scan, all the chuffing time, if you have someone in local you have to assume, they are coming for you!!!

2. Check local, the channel should NEVER be closed, it should be in view as clearly as you can make it with out blocking other read outs, overview and such like.

3. Don't play solo. Join a corp, there are MANY new play friendly corps in FW, that can both help you play, teach you **** and look after your ass.

4. Use D-Scan, all the chuffing time, if you have someone in local you have to assume, they are coming for you!!!

5. Be careful in low sec, the guys there will be in the main, guys who have been to null sec, done the ti-di blop fests and come away, will be well skilled and expirenced.

6. Finally, "how not to use your pod" To be honest buddy, losing your pod to anything other than server lag or warp bubbles (which they don't have in low sec) is pretty poor. The second you think you are gonna die, select a gate, planet, belt station and have it in you "selected item" box... then spam the living **** out of your "warp to" button.

Eddie

peas
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2016-05-20 21:39:59 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:

But if FW was made to introduce players to PVP and novice plexes are made to introduce newbies to pvp fights,

Not sure where you got this from. FW was revamped a few years back to make it profitable not easy mode for newbies. This is a misunderstanding of yours and not a bad game design.
Lucy Lollipops wrote:

if newbies need to run away 99% of the fights because opponents are overpowered 99% of times, it means mechanics are working very badly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de1hwoFYA_k
Watch that link and then come back here and tell me that winning in Eve is all about your "gear" and your "stats" because it most certainly is not.
Lucy Lollipops wrote:

If FW is made to learn me to flee from opponents because developers are happy about faction ships with fleet bonuses warping in novice plexes for easy kills all time, then mechanics are perfect (for pirates at least...)..

P.S.

Probably next answers will be the usual :

It's a sandbox!!!

The developers put the tools, it's players make the content.

Yes, yes, and I live in the fairy tale world with pink dragons and princesses to save.


Developers made it for having players to learn pvp, many like me I think they learn nothing because of exploited mechanics...

This is why I am pointing out the problem....

You clearly don't get this game and either need to take a step back and let go of some of your preconceived notions or go back to WoW.

To be good at PvP in Eve you need to learn the game and actually become good at PvP. Also with no run backs from the graveyard it is difficult to delude yourself into thinking that you are good when actually you are not.

You have everything available to you that you need to learn PvP. Get with some more experienced pilots until you learn the basics. Then you can try and go out on your own but you will still loose probably 100 ships or more until you get decent at PvP in this game.

There is no easy mode instant gratification in this game. You either HTFU and take the time to learn the game or you can play something that caters to fragile egos that care more about winning than getting better.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#99 - 2016-05-21 06:07:04 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:

But if FW was made to introduce players to PVP and novice plexes are made to introduce newbies to pvp fights,

Not sure where you got this from. FW was revamped a few years back to make it profitable not easy mode for newbies. This is a misunderstanding of yours and not a bad game design.
Lucy Lollipops wrote:

if newbies need to run away 99% of the fights because opponents are overpowered 99% of times, it means mechanics are working very badly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de1hwoFYA_k
Watch that link and then come back here and tell me that winning in Eve is all about your "gear" and your "stats" because it most certainly is not.
Lucy Lollipops wrote:

If FW is made to learn me to flee from opponents because developers are happy about faction ships with fleet bonuses warping in novice plexes for easy kills all time, then mechanics are perfect (for pirates at least...)..

P.S.

Probably next answers will be the usual :

It's a sandbox!!!

The developers put the tools, it's players make the content.

Yes, yes, and I live in the fairy tale world with pink dragons and princesses to save.


Developers made it for having players to learn pvp, many like me I think they learn nothing because of exploited mechanics...

This is why I am pointing out the problem....

You clearly don't get this game and either need to take a step back and let go of some of your preconceived notions or go back to WoW.

To be good at PvP in Eve you need to learn the game and actually become good at PvP. Also with no run backs from the graveyard it is difficult to delude yourself into thinking that you are good when actually you are not.

You have everything available to you that you need to learn PvP. Get with some more experienced pilots until you learn the basics. Then you can try and go out on your own but you will still loose probably 100 ships or more until you get decent at PvP in this game.

There is no easy mode instant gratification in this game. You either HTFU and take the time to learn the game or you can play something that caters to fragile egos that care more about winning than getting better.



I've often read your posts, and they seemed very balanced and useful, but on last weeks it seems you're taking the elitist road that in my humble opinion is putting this game that I like very much in a bad situation.

I try to semplify a bit, just to make it clear what I think and why I made this post:

Premise is:

- Game is struggling to have a decent platform of active players, I think it's clear to every average intelligent person.

- The real strenght of Eve is in the PvP

What's happening is:

- Developers ignore new players, letting them struggle much in a 100% poorly designed "tutorial" experience, making 80% of them leaving at once, the other 20% resist because they've read PvP is nice and they experience a so hard treatment from the bored, camping veterans focuses on Zkillboard only, result is they leave the game too.

- Despite you keep saying it's a sandbox, developers are taking the wrong, awful, boring road of "encouraging" players to stay ingame with DAILIES, after they tried to change some mechanics already with Injectors.

You said in Your post that you played Wow.

Refreshing Your mind: DAILIES = WOW

This, in my opinion is bad and wrong.

In my opinion the correct way to make new players stick to this wonderful game is making PvP experience a little less punishing for new players, and in my opinion to give them a place where to practice pvp is the correct direction.

The place, to end my reasoning, is novice plexes.

Novice plexes are exploited by bored, long time veterans looking for easy kills.

Change novice plexes mechanic a bit and in my opinion you will give novices a decent chance to experience PvP from the beginning, giving this game the chance of having more subscriptions and more active players.

Maybe I'm totally wrong. It could be.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2016-05-21 07:29:13 UTC
What we have been trying to tell you is that yes, EvE can be hard - but Fear Not! Because luckily, there are many players who are willing to teach you what they know.

You seem to think this is CCPs job but nope - not even the knowledge base is maintained on CCP's servers. EvE University, RvB, Brave Newbies, Pandemic Horde, Karmafleet and a thousand-and-one other newbee/newbean friendly corps are all PLAYER RUN initiatives!

...which you've all rejected.

So yeah. Bummer. Don't ask for help if you don't want any.


Novice complexes really really are as easy as it gets. I know you struggle to believe that, I know you want an even easier complex but that's the best you're gonna get. When you join the militia, you have a militia chat channel. Ask questions there, team up with fellow newbros (which you are also unwilling to do) .....


What exactly is it you struggle with? The vibe I'm getting is that -in your opinion- Faction Frigs are the problem. I admit, I haven't done FW in over six months but from what I remember, those were not the norm. You could get goodfights with Tristans, Rifters, Kestrels, Condors, Slashers, Crusifiers, Mauluses -- hell, I shot people in a freakin' Vigil.

Some guys will attempt to gang up on you, some may or may not have links -- but that too is part of PvP : knowing when to NOT take a fight. Learning how to dictate the terms of a fight so that it turns out in your favour.


You think a faction frig is an "I Win" button, don't you? Well, let me tell you you're flat out wrong. People pay maybe 20 or 50 mil extra to get the same T1 frig you're flying plus 1 bonus. If they cannot use that bonus, they got nothing on you. You don't think you get a fair and honest chance? Well, the small weapon systems and frigs can be trained to decent levels in as little as 8 days. Then you have exactly the same skills they have, for the scale doesn't go past level V.

Since this thread already exceeds eight days, I suggest you start facing the fact maybe you want to try something easier before getting disillusioned, and pick up the more difficult solo career once you got the basics down.


If you're serious about getting into PvP, shoot me an in-game mail.