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Few questions about Citadels

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Ashuro Aakiwa
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-02-26 16:05:33 UTC
Hey everyone! :)

I have few questions about the Citadels; I read some topics about these structures but didn't find really an answer. So my questions are

1.) How much will the Citadels cost? Like the medium size one (also the smallest)?

2.) Is it worth to build a citadel? Is it better then a normal medium size POS, if you are a miner and want to compress, reprocess, learn BPOs?

3.) I read, you can dock on a citadel. Does it have a limit for how many ships can dock on it? Can you dock with an orca?

4.) Does a medium size POS consume more fuel block then a medium size citadel?

5.) Is a citadel safer then a medium size POS?

6.) Where can you build a citadel? Everywhere? Even in a sun, or can you build it only around planets/moons?

Sorry for my english, if you can't understand some sentences. It's not my main language (it's german)
Memphis Baas
#2 - 2016-02-26 16:17:50 UTC
1. They'll probably be similar to supercapital ships, manufactured in space, so their cost depends on the components that are required to build them. This Dev Blog lists the materials required.

2. They are actual stations you can dock at, with clone services, market functionality, repairs, etc. (depending on the services installed), so yeah they are better than POSes.

3. The citadel dev blogs talk about the limits, but of course at this early stage nothing is set in stone. I believe small ships are unlimited, but depending on the size of the citadel it may have only a few limited slots for docking capital ships. Of course, docking rights can be controlled by the owners of the citadel, so you may not be able to dock at the ones that don't belong to you.

4. Probably not.

5. It matters where you put these things; high-sec requires a war declaration and doesn't allow dreadnoughts to attack you, so it's safer than null. I'm guessing that the citadels will be safer than the POSes simply because your ships are hidden inside, and because there will be some interaction with the sovereignty system (in terms of invulnerability timers), rather than people being able to shoot your POS whenever they want, and the POS timers depending on strontium.

6. Probably the same rules for anchoring like now.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2016-02-26 16:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
Ashuro Aakiwa wrote:
Stuff



  1. Hull price, without anything installed: Astrahus (M): around 600m ISK, Fortizar (L): around 7b ISK, Keepstar (XL): around 135b ISK (we increased the price from 70b since this blog got out). You have to add 20-30m ISK per module you want to install, then rigs are going to cost quite a bit too. Have a look at the link we provided for more details.

  2. It's worth building a Citadel if you want to compress or reprocess yes. We'll make sure they're better at reprocessing and compression than Starbases and Outposts when they come out. Most likely that'll mean we'll reduce Starbases and Outposts bonuses into those two fields a little. We're not going to have research at first release, so may want to wait for that. However, Citadels are much more flexible and defensible than medium POSes, so they are no question better if you want a structure to use as staging / housing.

  3. If you have access to dock from the owner, there will not be an artificial volume cap preventing you from doing so.

  4. It depends on what you do with it. Citadels only use fuel when service modules are installed. If you're not using any, it doesn't use fuel. If you fit all of them, costs are going to be more expensive.

  5. See point 2.

  6. Can build it anywhere, as long as you are outside within a specific range of other structures, celestials, warp-in points etc... Current distance restriction we're thinking about is 700-1000km. Number may change.



You really, really may want to read the various blogs we released about Citadels to get more information before planning ahead though P

The latest one is here. It contains links to all of the others for quick reference.
Ashuro Aakiwa
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-02-26 16:47:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashuro Aakiwa
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Ashuro Aakiwa wrote:
Stuff


stuff


Thank you very much for answering my questions. I read most of these blogs, and I think I'm gonna build a citadel, when it's released

The last question would be: When will the citadels be released? March or much later?
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-02-26 16:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • It's worth building a Citadel if you want to compress or reprocess yes. We'll make sure they're better at reprocessing and compression than Starbases and Outposts when they come out. Most likely that'll mean we'll reduce Starbases and Outposts bonuses into those two fields a little. We're not going to have research at first release, so may want to wait for that. However, Citadels are much more flexible and defensible than medium POSes, so they are no question better if you want a structure to use as staging / housing.


    • On that note, are those reprocessing rig values for high/low/null really correct? What?

    That seems like a pretty outlandish and unnecessary buff to high sec.

    Sure, it's expensive, but a 1.7% advantage for a T2 rigged null sec XL over a high sec one seems like the most token benefit ever.

    "Help, I'm bored with missions!"

    http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
    CCP Ytterbium
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #6 - 2016-02-26 16:58:33 UTC
    SurrenderMonkey wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    [

  • It's worth building a Citadel if you want to compress or reprocess yes. We'll make sure they're better at reprocessing and compression than Starbases and Outposts when they come out. Most likely that'll mean we'll reduce Starbases and Outposts bonuses into those two fields a little. We're not going to have research at first release, so may want to wait for that. However, Citadels are much more flexible and defensible than medium POSes, so they are no question better if you want a structure to use as staging / housing.


    • On that note, are those reprocessing rig values for high/low/null really correct? What?

    That seems like a pretty outlandish and unnecessary buff to high sec.

    Sure, it's expensive, but a 1.7% "bonus" for null sec over high seems like the most token benefit ever.


    As mentioned in the latest blog comments, we'll iterate on those.
    Manssell
    OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
    #7 - 2016-02-26 17:29:33 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:


    [list=1]
  • Hull price, without anything installed: Astrahus (M): around 600m ISK, Fortizar (L): around 7b ISK, Keepstar (XL): around 135b ISK (we increased the price from 70b since this blog got out). You have to add 20-30m ISK per module you want to install, then rigs are going to cost quite a bit too. Have a look at the link we provided for more details.


    • It’s been said several times that Citadels are supposed to (and are going to) replace the current POS’s. Which I’m for and all, but it seems you’re leaving a big hole that isn’t getting filled.


    If the smallest citadel is 600m isk what is going to replace the current small POS’s? Right now a small tower is around 100m isk and can be fitted for basic functions for players at around 150m isk. That’s a huge price difference compared to the new smallest citadels. Now true, there is no fuel cost with the new citadels but small POS’s can be used in a verity of temporary ways where the fuel cost will still come no where near the price difference of the new citadels. From very temporary manufacturing/research to small pirate/scouting/ratting basses to other more nefarious purposes, the small POS is a very economical, useful and attainable structure. Especially for newer/casual players.

    Yes know POS’s will be around for a while but it’s also been stated that you will remove them in the future. So I ask is there plans to fill the small temporary cheap functions of the small POS’s with the new citadels? It seems you’re in fact raising the barrier quit significant'y to structure ownership in both cost and types of activities over what the small POS’s give to players now.
    SurrenderMonkey
    State Protectorate
    Caldari State
    #8 - 2016-02-26 17:48:07 UTC
    Manssell wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:


    [list=1]
  • Hull price, without anything installed: Astrahus (M): around 600m ISK, Fortizar (L): around 7b ISK, Keepstar (XL): around 135b ISK (we increased the price from 70b since this blog got out). You have to add 20-30m ISK per module you want to install, then rigs are going to cost quite a bit too. Have a look at the link we provided for more details.


    • It’s been said several times that Citadels are supposed to (and are going to) replace the current POS’s. Which I’m for and all, but it seems you’re leaving a big hole that isn’t getting filled.


    If the smallest citadel is 600m isk what is going to replace the current small POS’s? Right now a small tower is around 100m isk and can be fitted for basic functions for players at around 150m isk. That’s a huge price difference compared to the new smallest citadels. Now true, there is no fuel cost with the new citadels but small POS’s can be used in a verity of temporary ways where the fuel cost will still come no where near the price difference of the new citadels. From very temporary manufacturing/research to small pirate/scouting/ratting basses to other more nefarious purposes, the small POS is a very economical, useful and attainable structure. Especially for newer/casual players.

    Yes know POS’s will be around for a while but it’s also been stated that you will remove them in the future. So I ask is there plans to fill the small temporary cheap functions of the small POS’s with the new citadels? It seems you’re in fact raising the barrier quit significant'y to structure ownership in both cost and types of activities over what the small POS’s give to players now.



    Yeah, I've seen some comparable concerns, particularly from the S&I crowd (research and manufacturing being rather popular single-player corp functions).

    The research lab structure, for instance, was only listed as a Large. Does this mean research service modules won't be available in medium at all?

    I'm assuming that's not the case, if only because ramping up the minimum expense for that from hundreds of millions to 7 billion (for just the hull) seems so excessive that I doubt that's the plan, but. :shrug:

    "Help, I'm bored with missions!"

    http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
    Ashuro Aakiwa
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #9 - 2016-02-26 18:25:50 UTC
    Oh god I hope the research lab structure will be in the medium too, I need it
    SurrenderMonkey
    State Protectorate
    Caldari State
    #10 - 2016-02-26 18:58:32 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
    Ashuro Aakiwa wrote:
    Oh god I hope the research lab structure will be in the medium too, I need it


    I have mixed feelings about it.

    Research and manu could stand a bit more stratification between the professionals and the casuals, anyway. The train times are bordering on inconsequential, throwing up a POS is trivial, etc. No shortage of oversupply complaints to be read.

    Additionally, it's worth noting that Citadels aren't POS. There's no practical way to open a POS to the public, but under the new structure model, you CAN do this and you can even run the structure itself as a business.

    It could be the case that "other-people's-structures" are intended to be the new small/medium research/manu POS.

    "Help, I'm bored with missions!"

    http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
    Atarien
    Doomheim
    #11 - 2016-02-26 19:54:23 UTC
    can we please get the new build numbers for the xl citadel released if its changed since the construction blog

    also for clarification why was the xl doubled and the other 2 stay the same to me it makes no sence at all
    SurrenderMonkey
    State Protectorate
    Caldari State
    #12 - 2016-02-26 19:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
    Atarien wrote:
    can we please get the new build numbers for the xl citadel released if its changed since the construction blog

    also for clarification why was the xl doubled and the other 2 stay the same to me it makes no sence at all


    I don't see why you would think the in-dev, never actually released into gameplay pricing would have some sort of fixed relativity between sizes that must be conformed to.

    The XL prices was likely changed because they decided the XL should be more expensive than initially planned, while the others were not because they decided they were fine.

    Anyway, that sterile conduit price was getting a little soft.

    "Help, I'm bored with missions!"

    http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
    Raith Crimson
    Doomheim
    #13 - 2016-02-26 20:23:40 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Ashuro Aakiwa wrote:
    Stuff



    1. Hull price, without anything installed: Astrahus (M): around 600m ISK, Fortizar (L): around 7b ISK, Keepstar (XL): around 135b ISK (we increased the price from 70b since this blog got out). You have to add 20-30m ISK per module you want to install, then rigs are going to cost quite a bit too. Have a look at the link we provided for more details.

    2. It's worth building a Citadel if you want to compress or reprocess yes. We'll make sure they're better at reprocessing and compression than Starbases and Outposts when they come out. Most likely that'll mean we'll reduce Starbases and Outposts bonuses into those two fields a little. We're not going to have research at first release, so may want to wait for that. However, Citadels are much more flexible and defensible than medium POSes, so they are no question better if you want a structure to use as staging / housing.

    3. If you have access to dock from the owner, there will not be an artificial volume cap preventing you from doing so.

    4. It depends on what you do with it. Citadels only use fuel when service modules are installed. If you're not using any, it doesn't use fuel. If you fit all of them, costs are going to be more expensive.

    5. See point 2.

    6. Can build it anywhere, as long as you are outside within a specific range of other structures, celestials, warp-in points etc... Current distance restriction we're thinking about is 700-1000km. Number may change.



    You really, really may want to read the various blogs we released about Citadels to get more information before planning ahead though P

    The latest one is here. It contains links to all of the others for quick reference.



    Can we have Fighter Bays on the Stations please :)

    my ideas are my own and have no reflection on the ideas of my current corp / alliance.

    excuse my terrible typing.
    Grauth Thorner
    Vicious Trading Company
    #14 - 2016-02-26 20:51:43 UTC
    Ashuro Aakiwa wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Ashuro Aakiwa wrote:
    Stuff


    stuff


    Thank you very much for answering my questions. I read most of these blogs, and I think I'm gonna build a citadel, when it's released

    The last question would be: When will the citadels be released? March or much later?

    +1 for the counter-stuff

    View real-time damage statistics in-game

    >EVE Live DPS Graph application forum thread

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    Plaid Rabbit
    Enlightened Industries
    Goonswarm Federation
    #15 - 2016-02-26 20:55:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Plaid Rabbit
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    SurrenderMonkey wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    [

  • It's worth building a Citadel if you want to compress or reprocess yes. We'll make sure they're better at reprocessing and compression than Starbases and Outposts when they come out. Most likely that'll mean we'll reduce Starbases and Outposts bonuses into those two fields a little. We're not going to have research at first release, so may want to wait for that. However, Citadels are much more flexible and defensible than medium POSes, so they are no question better if you want a structure to use as staging / housing.


    • On that note, are those reprocessing rig values for high/low/null really correct? What?

    That seems like a pretty outlandish and unnecessary buff to high sec.

    Sure, it's expensive, but a 1.7% "bonus" for null sec over high seems like the most token benefit ever.


    As mentioned in the latest blog comments, we'll iterate on those.


    I'm excited for the citidels, but I think you should avoid ripples into indy. Can you change the start point of the iteration to be closer to what's currently in place instead of giving hisec ~20% more then they are currently getting? There will be a lot of ripples from the hisec refining rate being within 1% of the nullsec ore price. That's a giant can of worms to open, and I'd like to see citadels launched without interfering with other mechanics.

    Right now NPC Stations are 30% or 50% base. What about T1:50% T2:52% in hisec (the same as the reprocessing array), T1 52 T2 54% in low (same as the intensive reprocessing array) and T1 56 T2 60% in null (to match Minmatar Outposts).
    Lord Papworth
    Borinyeks Corporation
    #16 - 2016-05-20 14:12:11 UTC
    if I plan to build a Fortizar and have all the components ready to put in the cooker can I build it in a POS module like an equipment array or component array or Capital ship manufacturing place or do I have to build it in an NPC station
    Sustrai Aditua
    Intandofisa
    #17 - 2016-05-20 15:23:39 UTC
    Lord Papworth wrote:
    if I plan to build a Fortizar and have all the components ready to put in the cooker can I build it in a POS module like an equipment array or component array or Capital ship manufacturing place or do I have to build it in an NPC station
    You have to take it home and do it on the dining room table.

    Thanks for dropping in CCP Ytterbium. The clarifications were useful.

    If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.