EVE General Discussion

Showing your ignorance again, a pod cannot cloak so you can use probes and not have to go to extraordinary lengths to get on it, sisters combat probes did the job perfectly well thank you.

Player status: retained

Glad we can provide content

Because doing what you describe is pvp. Me staying docked looking at spreadsheets, working the market, while you fail to kill me, is winning at pvp. As you say, Eve is all pvp.

So is lobbying ccp for hisec gank-nerfs, btw. You can call it 'whining' if you like, but I call it content-provision. You're welcome.

Btw, you don't need to keep roleplaying the 'altruism' bit. Most of your post made sense, it doesn't need the fake religion stuff.

If you play Monopoly with someone else you agree to follow the rules the same as every other player. Calling Hasbro to change the rules of the game in your favor because you suck at the game is not part of the game.

By crying to CCP for changes in your favor you clearly step out of the game. You even step outside the metagame. You are no longer a gamer if you do that. You are something else. Some crybaby on the internet perhaps, but not an EVE player who tries to play in the sandbox with other players.

I agree that sometimes rules have to be changed because a game is not balanced. But such a request would be a proposal about what to change and how it would improve the game and make it more fun for everyone and not some rant about why you think a specific player group should be nerfed because they happened to interfere with your business when you did not expect it.

Luckily, Eve is not Monopoly. Monopoly is IMO a broken game. Eve is not, and since it's been doing very well for over a decade now with such lobbying an ongoing and at times successful aspect of the metagame, I for one think it's a robust enough game to withstand any anti-lobbying lobbying from the likes of you :)



The sandbox is larger than you seem to think, at least in this post. You are happy and eager to include the forum pvp in your meta when it suits you (the roleplaying stuff about CODE doing what they do for the benefit of the in-world aspects and mechanics), but what we have here is a rare occurrence of a CODE roleplayer coming out of your personal meta to comment 'from the outside'. It's interesting to me because I see the 'carebear whining' as you describe it as being firmly within the game too. As such, in a similar way to a ganker claiming a 'win' from effecting a tear-post on the forums, we can apply our own metric to pvp victory, in this case me apparently causing you to drop your RP face to comment as a normal customer. My immediate reaction to seeing your post was a smugly muttered 'boom, headshot!'. I don't as a customer say this with any vehemence directed towards you as a person (I assume you're a nice enough person in RL and suchlike), but in the meta I apply, I just won a victory. It's admittedly an entirely personal victory with no in-game measurable effect, but so are claims that because a miner trains up for anti-gank, CODE have scored a win on the forums.



The New Order's roleplay goal as described on minerbumping is not an actual real achievable endgoal. It's impossible that Eve will ever see a situation whereby every single miner in the game has a mining permit, because there will always be new players who don't read the forums who'll go mining, and get ganked etc, never mind the many vet miners who will never accede to the extortion. And as has been noted often, CODE doesn't really have that far a reach in hisec anyway.

You guys wouldn't want a situation whereby you didn't have anyone to gank anyway. The static state of CODE vs Carebears is much the same now as it was 2 years ago, and it'll continue to be so. You gank a few miners etc, a few miners rage about it, life goes on.

Likewise, I'm not foolish enough to assume that CCP will ever actually make hisec totally risk-free because of the 'tears' of hisec carebears like myself. But it's not against the rules of the game or the forums to call for nerfs to ganking, so such activity is within the meta whether or not you agree with it.



The most interesting aspect of CODE's activities to me isn't actually the in-game ganking and extortion roleplay that goes on. It's the forum roleplaying justifications of the in-game activity. And by this I mean mostly the 'Praise James!' stuff that serves to cloud any 'discussions' of the phenomenon, but also the rare occurrences of CODE members coming out of the RP-world to try to explain stuff like ganking being a stopper on runaway resource creation and inflation etc. We get an ongoing mismatch of carebears trying to engage in 'sensible' discussions about hurting people's feelings etc and scaring off new players and all that malarkey, vs CODErs who mostly talk in character as 'space villains'.

I have a sheet of A4 stuck to my wall above my monitor. It has a few reminders for me to view in the rare event that I'm ganked whilst hisec mining. In short, the overall advice in it is to broadly ignore the roleplaying of whoever ganked me, because after a short while in Eve, it's fairly easy to enjoy playing without being sent back to square 1 due to CODE. The trick is to generate personal win-conditions that aren't linked to stupid stuff like killboards and loot.

The meta of forum pvp can provide that sort of content, and it's clear from CODE's posts that they agree.

I think it just boils down to personal opinion as to how deep the meta goes.

Heres the thing you gather miner corps into your alliance and you actually provide protection in exchange for a small tax. Thats not extortion, thats what private security/police do. Many miners will happily join a strong alliance who will provide them some measure of protection from CODE and goons not to mention belt cleaning multiboxers.

Theres an old saying from the end of the 18th century "Millions for Defense not one cent for tribute"

Hardly anybody is going to ride shotgun with hisec miners, doing so is very nearly as boring as mining itself; the only probable exception is a corp that's wardecced, they might ride shotgun in the hope of some WTs to shoot at.

The only places an escort could hope to see any action from CODE. and the like is if you mine in a system where they're active, and if you've got an escort they'll either leave you alone, gank the escorts if they're worth the outlay and/or smartbomb the crap out of you; although the question must be asked why would you mine in a system where CODE. is known to be active in the first place?.

Get off the beaten track/8-10 or so jumps from a hub or trade route and you don't have to worry about gankers, or even other miners in some cases; I've had hisec systems with multiple belts to myself for days on end.

It's not that the forum doesn't work, it's that your bbcode isn't recognised by it, which breaks the link.

Not all forums support the full range of bbcode that is available, alignment tags on a link being one that doesn't work here.

Thanks for proving my point for me. Can you spell "zooom"?


Well...the thing is, it's not my BBCode. I highlighted and selected the operation button provided by management. If it's anybody's code, it's theirs.

CCP says the "core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox environment." That means Eve is a PvP sandbox game, one centered around spaceship combat. What is this "more" you referring to? The lore? I guess in this sense it is more as there are books, other video games, and so forth based on the game universe but Eve Online as a game is a PvP sandbox game. If we are discussing game mechanics there is nothing more. Of course you can play Eve without seeking out or engaging in spaceship combat, but the essential core concept is that spaceship combat can find you. That's what "full-time PvP sandbox" means.

So yes, Eve as an idea is more than just Eve Online the game, but Eve Online the game is not a loosey-goosey piece of concept art that can be whatever you want. It is a PvP spaceship game with specific rules including the concept that you never should be completely safe anywhere in space. I completely understand that some players play in this universe to do things unrelated to spaceship combat, but the whole point of the game is that everyone is vulnerable to everyone else (in fact, this is in the name Everybody vs. Everybody). Claiming that if someone isn't motivated by spaceship combat that they should have the right to remove themselves as a target is anathema to the central idea of Eve and incompatible with the design of the game.

Playing only as an industrialist (AKA the rabbit) is a perfect valid play-style I pass no judgment on. If you enjoy ninja-ing resources and thumbing your nose at the predators, more power to you. I used to do that all the time huffing gas in wormholes and found it thrilling. I only pass judgment on those that claim that the game should be changed so they can do their industrial work in absolute safety. Those are the true carebears whose sense of entitlement to retain the ability to change the Eve universe while being immune from the other players that I abhor. Their demands are not only incompatible with the original game design (Everybody vs. Everybody)), they actively destroy the game by making PvP only consensual. There can be no safe-space in a sandbox game or everyone will just move there to produce resources leaving no targets for the non-consensual PvP that is at the core of Eve Online.

Yes they did. I think we have crossed a wire here though. I am referring to the ability to mine in absolute safety, not mining itself. Clearly CCP supports pure industrial play and has spent much effort (albeit not lately) developing industrial and mining game play. But all resource generation, even PI, requires players to be at risk in space. This is what I mean when I say CCP has rejected the playstyle where an industrialist can ignore providing for their defence. CCP always puts the generator of resources into the game universe at risk to the other players as that is the central design of the game.

There is no extremism. The New Order is playing the game as designed. Both Monopoly and Eve Online have clearly defined rules - you do not get to decide how much damage your battleship will do or how much ore your miner will harvest per cycle, that is set out in the rules set by CCP. The rules of Eve Online are designed such that players can impose their will on each other. Again, that is the central core concept of the game.

I think you are confusing two things, the role-playing aspect of the space villains that are the New Order, and the motivations of the real people behind the space villains. Fair enough, we tend to switch back and forth from our space cultist personas to our real-world personalities freely on these forums. So yes, the space villains in us are trying to put highsec in a box and impose our own rules there. We purposely act pompous, make up rules, and claim the right to dictate how to play the game in our territory. That is a conceit we use to define our opponents and force them to pick a side, thus generating content and telling our own story.

But I as the real person don't care how you play - you pay the subscription. But play the game as it was designed. Play as a rabbit, play as wolf, play as a pacifist, play as a pirate. But don't claim you have the right to play some other game (like a space-themed version of Farmville) when you are actually playing the full-time PvP sandbox that is Eve Online. Eve is about struggling against the other players and making your own stories and for that, you have to be vulnerable to the other players. Yes, that includes even the lowly highsec miner who is only interested in building, and has no desire to ever shoot another player. This is a core Eve idea of everyone always being interconnected and vulnerable and sharing a single universe is something I do care about.

This is what Eve is. The New Order is dedicated to keeping New Eden 'real' by being the villains of highsec and serving as the agents of risk as intended by the game developer. Comply with our rules, or actively rebel and fight us - it's all good. We win either way, like we always do, because through our actions we have made content-starved highsec a more interesting place.