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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Maekchu
Doomheim
#41 - 2016-05-19 15:43:17 UTC
john sasha wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
well thats your fault, economic warfare is a viable tactic, you lose isk, he is winning, form up, bait them out and kill them, not hard is it?

wouldn't be if there was people on during my time to do it.

So because you are in a corp where your corpmates are not online at the same time as you, we should change the game mechanics?

Yeah, that sound like a great way to balance the game.
john sasha
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2016-05-19 16:04:51 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
john sasha wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
well thats your fault, economic warfare is a viable tactic, you lose isk, he is winning, form up, bait them out and kill them, not hard is it?

wouldn't be if there was people on during my time to do it.

So because you are in a corp where your corpmates are not online at the same time as you, we should change the game mechanics?

Yeah, that sound like a great way to balance the game.

and cloacky camping a system for months is balanced?

what i was trying to suggest is for a balanced way to counter cloacky campers that didn't require bait and a fleet to do it.
it just needs to be a miner detail that only affect cloacky campers and not worm hole divers.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#43 - 2016-05-19 17:12:51 UTC
john sasha wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
john sasha wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
well thats your fault, economic warfare is a viable tactic, you lose isk, he is winning, form up, bait them out and kill them, not hard is it?

wouldn't be if there was people on during my time to do it.

So because you are in a corp where your corpmates are not online at the same time as you, we should change the game mechanics?

Yeah, that sound like a great way to balance the game.

and cloacky camping a system for months is balanced?

what i was trying to suggest is for a balanced way to counter cloacky campers that didn't require bait and a fleet to do it.
it just needs to be a miner detail that only affect cloacky campers and not worm hole divers.

It is.

If the cloaky is actively camping/hunting the system, you need to put in an effort to fight him. Just like he is actually putting in an effort to hunt you around the system. If it is an afk cloaky, then you have nothing to fear, because he needs to be at the keyboard to actually kill you.

Did you make this thread, because you lost a Thrasher to an Astero?
john sasha
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2016-05-19 17:21:02 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
john sasha wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
john sasha wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
well thats your fault, economic warfare is a viable tactic, you lose isk, he is winning, form up, bait them out and kill them, not hard is it?

wouldn't be if there was people on during my time to do it.

So because you are in a corp where your corpmates are not online at the same time as you, we should change the game mechanics?

Yeah, that sound like a great way to balance the game.

and cloacky camping a system for months is balanced?

what i was trying to suggest is for a balanced way to counter cloacky campers that didn't require bait and a fleet to do it.
it just needs to be a miner detail that only affect cloacky campers and not worm hole divers.

It is.

If the cloaky is actively camping/hunting the system, you need to put in an effort to fight him. Just like he is actually putting in an effort to hunt you around the system. If it is an afk cloaky, then you have nothing to fear, because he needs to be at the keyboard to actually kill you.

Did you make this thread, because you lost a Thrasher to an Astero?

no i havent lost anything to him yet because of what i do but id like to actually be able to play the game though. that would be wonderful instead of sitting docked in system waiting for him to leave
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#45 - 2016-05-19 17:23:25 UTC
play it then, its your choice to be docked, go to a different system see if he follows, instalock him on the gate and shoot him with said thrasher

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#46 - 2016-05-19 18:37:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
I have not really been doing much in 0.0 recently, but I used to operate when I had cloaky AFK campers and my main focus was identifying their potential drops and put them on a watch list so I could ascertain risk, which you cannot do now, and ascertaining their play time.

One approach is to drop down into something they will not bother dropping on, but I had one group who would hot drop a rifter, which was rather funny. Another is to step up into something that they have no chance of killing unless they have a lot of backup, like two carriers. But you have to ascertain his likely play periods. What you can do is put stuff in space which is cheap and yet something they would want to kill, by that approach you get a risk profile.

Another thing to assess is your systems prime time, many cloaky campers will go for systems which have high use when they are active, again linking back kills on this and looking at the activity of certain systems with the same control where they have operated before does also build up the picture.

Would you be happy if I contacted you in game and gave you some ideas. Yeah its bad mechanics but you can hunt them, its often a long shot but I found that many are arrogant lazy half wit fecks who make silly mistakes with the cloaky camper, not so much with what they drop.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#47 - 2016-05-19 18:52:41 UTC
*chime*

The offices of Mr King-Griffin would like to apolagise for the delay in service.

Please stay on the line

Your Nerf afk cloaking thread is important to us .

*chime*

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#48 - 2016-05-19 19:01:54 UTC
Paikis wrote:
This thread comes up on almost a weekly basis. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a nerf cloaking thread in the first 2 pages on this forum section. Almost every single one of them goes like this:

1. OP posts a post with a new (lol) idea that always boils down to some variation of the following:
- "There's a big meanie who is sitting in my system and not doing anything, but I don't know where he is and I can't ever just go next door. I can't find said meanie and even though I know that he's probably at work and poses no threat at all, I wont do anything in my system that I absolutely can't leave ever because he might not be at work and I might lose a ship. CCP please stop the meanie from being able to do nothing to me because he's probably at work"

2. Thread gets trolled because its been done literally to death. This horse has been beaten so hard and so often that it's little more than a memory of a memory of a red smear on the grass, and yet it STILL WONT DIE! In fact it's been done so many times that this particular horse is now undead; even if it does die, it will still be remembered and parodied.

3. Someone comes along and suggests that AFK cloakers can't hurt you, because they are, by their very definition, AFK. No one ever lost a ship to someone who ISN'T PLAYING THE GAME.

4. Someone else comes along and points out that while the cloaker might be AFK, he might not be, and so we have Schrodinger's Hot Dropper. The cyno pilot who might be AFK... but he might not be as well, and you will only know for sure when he decloaks, points and lights his candle. (Yes, I know this isn't how the cat works)

5. Someone else comes along and suggests that you use bait and setup a TARP. Or have a defence fleet on standby. Heaven forbid you have to actually fight to defend your space.

6. A further person comes along and suggests that the problem isn't cloaking AFK in your system that you can't possibly leave ever, but that you KNOW that the person is AFK in your system... and perhaps local should be removed because free 100% accurate intel is probably not the best thing in the game and if you didn't know that the big meanie was in your system, you wouldn't be worried about leaving the undock/POS.

7. Then another person pokes their head in and complains that local is 100% NEEDED because D-Scan and probing are such bad mechanics, and IF YOU TAKE MY LOCAL AWAY IM QUITTING FOREVER AND NO YOU CAN'T HAVE MY STUFF!

8. Someone asks if they can have 7's stuff.

We end up with another thread which goes on for pages and pages between complains about local, defence fleets, inability to just go next door, people who aren't playing the game but are playing the meta, lots of bickering and in the end nothing gets solved. CCP wont remove cloaking because it would mess with waaay too many things and it creates content (which is a good thing) by removing content (which is a bad thing) but they can't really think of any way to do it without a complete overhaul of the local and scanning systems.

Now that I've had this entire thread's conversation, can we just let it die? Please?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Maekchu
Doomheim
#49 - 2016-05-19 22:15:46 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Paikis wrote:
This thread comes up on almost a weekly basis. In fact, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a nerf cloaking thread in the first 2 pages on this forum section. Almost every single one of them goes like this:

1. OP posts a post with a new (lol) idea that always boils down to some variation of the following:
- "There's a big meanie who is sitting in my system and not doing anything, but I don't know where he is and I can't ever just go next door. I can't find said meanie and even though I know that he's probably at work and poses no threat at all, I wont do anything in my system that I absolutely can't leave ever because he might not be at work and I might lose a ship. CCP please stop the meanie from being able to do nothing to me because he's probably at work"

2. Thread gets trolled because its been done literally to death. This horse has been beaten so hard and so often that it's little more than a memory of a memory of a red smear on the grass, and yet it STILL WONT DIE! In fact it's been done so many times that this particular horse is now undead; even if it does die, it will still be remembered and parodied.

3. Someone comes along and suggests that AFK cloakers can't hurt you, because they are, by their very definition, AFK. No one ever lost a ship to someone who ISN'T PLAYING THE GAME.

4. Someone else comes along and points out that while the cloaker might be AFK, he might not be, and so we have Schrodinger's Hot Dropper. The cyno pilot who might be AFK... but he might not be as well, and you will only know for sure when he decloaks, points and lights his candle. (Yes, I know this isn't how the cat works)

5. Someone else comes along and suggests that you use bait and setup a TARP. Or have a defence fleet on standby. Heaven forbid you have to actually fight to defend your space.

6. A further person comes along and suggests that the problem isn't cloaking AFK in your system that you can't possibly leave ever, but that you KNOW that the person is AFK in your system... and perhaps local should be removed because free 100% accurate intel is probably not the best thing in the game and if you didn't know that the big meanie was in your system, you wouldn't be worried about leaving the undock/POS.

7. Then another person pokes their head in and complains that local is 100% NEEDED because D-Scan and probing are such bad mechanics, and IF YOU TAKE MY LOCAL AWAY IM QUITTING FOREVER AND NO YOU CAN'T HAVE MY STUFF!

8. Someone asks if they can have 7's stuff.

We end up with another thread which goes on for pages and pages between complains about local, defence fleets, inability to just go next door, people who aren't playing the game but are playing the meta, lots of bickering and in the end nothing gets solved. CCP wont remove cloaking because it would mess with waaay too many things and it creates content (which is a good thing) by removing content (which is a bad thing) but they can't really think of any way to do it without a complete overhaul of the local and scanning systems.

Now that I've had this entire thread's conversation, can we just let it die? Please?

This list is hilarious :D

I love how predictable these afk cloaky threads has become, that a freaking list was made. Comedy gold.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#50 - 2016-05-19 22:22:58 UTC
Maekchu wrote:

This list is hilarious :D

I love how predictable these afk cloaky threads has become, that a freaking list was made. Comedy gold.

over two ****ing years agoBig smile

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2016-05-20 00:41:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
'Cloaky camper' threads are the herpes-group viruses of eve ... they just keep on coming back.

The Paikis quote seems to have missed the to-and-fro killboard and skill arguments that seem to have mired so many of the more recent cloaky camper threads. Perhaps that is a more recent phenomenon when really there's nothing new to be said on the actual topic, so people just fall away to their same ol' arguments on other matters.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2016-05-20 00:42:38 UTC
john sasha wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
john sasha wrote:
And in this weak the troll strikes back!

Not even sure who you are referring to here. Is it you or me that is a troll? And if I'm the troll, are you then the weak? I mean, it does make sense, considering you are afraid of AFK cloakies.

But anyway, you got me gooooooood brah. Like reeaaaaaal gooooooood.

I'm not afraid of cloaky campers id just rather not end up on the kill board and losing my money makers. There needs to be a counter just like there's a counter for the rest of the ships in the game.


There is, just keep playing if they AFK cloaking like you say. If they are AFK they can't hurt you.

Second counter is to

a. Move somewhere else, EVE is huge.
b. You can see their name in local, find there Corp, cloak their systems.


Lastly, do you even know they are cloaked? Have you scanned the entire system with combat proobes? Even then he could be in an safe, in an un-scannable ship and not cloaked at all.
Stormin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2016-05-20 14:48:41 UTC
Sounds like you need to figure out how to kill this cloaky ship. If you've been ganked more than once by the same person you should have a general idea of there fit and how to fight them.
john sasha
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2016-05-20 14:53:28 UTC
Stormin wrote:
Sounds like you need to figure out how to kill this cloaky ship. If you've been ganked more than once by the same person you should have a general idea of there fit and how to fight them.

i actually havent been ganked by him at all. i only know by what others said about it. usually when i see a cloacky camper i get docked up and dont come out till hes gone.
john sasha
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2016-05-20 14:56:39 UTC
PhatController wrote:
john sasha wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
john sasha wrote:
And in this weak the troll strikes back!

Not even sure who you are referring to here. Is it you or me that is a troll? And if I'm the troll, are you then the weak? I mean, it does make sense, considering you are afraid of AFK cloakies.

But anyway, you got me gooooooood brah. Like reeaaaaaal gooooooood.

I'm not afraid of cloaky campers id just rather not end up on the kill board and losing my money makers. There needs to be a counter just like there's a counter for the rest of the ships in the game.


There is, just keep playing if they AFK cloaking like you say. If they are AFK they can't hurt you.

Second counter is to

a. Move somewhere else, EVE is huge.
b. You can see their name in local, find there Corp, cloak their systems.


Lastly, do you even know they are cloaked? Have you scanned the entire system with combat proobes? Even then he could be in an safe, in an un-scannable ship and not cloaked at all.

yes. he uses a ship that can be picked up on D-scan ive scanned him down once when he logged in. not sure of the combat probes. i like where i live.
eddie valvetino
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#56 - 2016-05-20 16:26:14 UTC
The Truth of the matter is this

You don't like someone else game play and are too lazy or stupid to do anything about it yourself.

You would rather put your efforts into whining on the forums.

There has been a lot of solid advice on how to deal with this guy and yet, rather than taking it you continue to cry and whine. Trying to justify your rather pathetic opinion.. an opinion that NO ONE in this thread has agreed with.

What this really comes down to is he is making you unable to make ISKes and you are so foolish you can't even find another way of doing it.

Do you honest think you are the ONLY person in eve to put up with a cloaked scout or camper in your system? If you do you're even more of an idiot than you already seem.

I bet he is laughing his ass off at you right now, your tears no doubt will fuel his cloak for years to come.

This is NOT a bug and broken game mechanic or even something CCP should look at. It's just a moron who can't adapt.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#57 - 2016-05-20 18:24:01 UTC
Just stop. You already have a thread stickied just for this topic. If you do not like it move to highsec or ask your buddies to defend you.
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#58 - 2016-05-20 19:36:37 UTC
john sasha wrote:
PhatController wrote:
john sasha wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
john sasha wrote:
And in this weak the troll strikes back!

Not even sure who you are referring to here. Is it you or me that is a troll? And if I'm the troll, are you then the weak? I mean, it does make sense, considering you are afraid of AFK cloakies.

But anyway, you got me gooooooood brah. Like reeaaaaaal gooooooood.

I'm not afraid of cloaky campers id just rather not end up on the kill board and losing my money makers. There needs to be a counter just like there's a counter for the rest of the ships in the game.


There is, just keep playing if they AFK cloaking like you say. If they are AFK they can't hurt you.

Second counter is to

a. Move somewhere else, EVE is huge.
b. You can see their name in local, find there Corp, cloak their systems.


Lastly, do you even know they are cloaked? Have you scanned the entire system with combat proobes? Even then he could be in an safe, in an un-scannable ship and not cloaked at all.

yes. he uses a ship that can be picked up on D-scan ive scanned him down once when he logged in. not sure of the combat probes. i like where i live.



Ok, so he's not cloaked then, go get some combat probes, scan him down and kill him.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2016-05-21 07:32:22 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
I have over the years posted suggestions about this and my favourite is an AFK flag for people away for more than an hour that gets flagged and removed if he does anything with the client. In this thread you saw them say oh his is afk what are you scared of, well when I suggested that, the AFK part suddenly mattered. The thing is that CCP is hoisted by their own petard in terms of the log off to escape combat or being hunted. One will see that a cloaked up Titan being hunted for PL will suddenly have a flag saying not AFK but that is OK if it stops AFK play from being rewarding by stopping people from doing stuff through significant unknown threat based on what can cyno in on you.
This idea is as dumb as the rest.

It's pointless to think of 'counters' to being AFK...! Come on, that's just silly.


On the other hand, it is indeed very easy to get a cloaky ship anywhere in EVE, and there's really nothing much the 'owners' of a system can do to avoid it. Since that cloaky can call in any number of blops without warning, it certainly does make it hard for 'empire builders' to create and defend 'safe havens' for their PVE activities.


At Fanfest CCP talked about an 'invulnerability field' ability for the Rorqual. Activating this module would make all ships within range invulnerable but also unable to move for a certain period (think 10-15 minutes or so). This would allow reinforcements to form and come defend the non-PVP ships.

Now that's a good idea in my opinion. If you want to PVE safely, you have to be prepared to defend your ships. If you want to hotdrop, you have to be prepared to face some opposition.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Stormin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2016-05-21 13:25:36 UTC
john sasha wrote:
Stormin wrote:
Sounds like you need to figure out how to kill this cloaky ship. If you've been ganked more than once by the same person you should have a general idea of there fit and how to fight them.

i actually havent been ganked by him at all. i only know by what others said about it. usually when i see a cloacky camper i get docked up and dont come out till hes gone.


Well that's your problem right there, stop docking up. Fight back and maybe you'll learn something, solve your own problem.