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Recurring opportunities will be deployed on May 24th
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Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#41 - 2016-05-19 21:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Lan Wang wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
there is no other tasks which give sp bonuses so i dont feel like im being penalised if i dont login to gain this 5mil sp a year bonus, thats what i like about eve, im not forced to login everyday because i lose nothing for having a life out of game.
You do though. Say you and I play the exact same time and the same activities. If you don't log in for a day you lose 1 days worth of income.

Lan Wang wrote:
yes its the start of a system which will probably require you to login everyday or you will lose something, ive played plenty of mmo's where stuff dies or you get to a stage where you have to login (or run a bot) to fulfill these tasks, even promotes account sharing, its totally bad news. thats what dailies are designed to do
You won't lose anything, you'll simply not gain anything.

Lan Wang wrote:
it is penalisin you because if i dont follow this task that ccp wants me to do then i dont get a reward, even though im active everyday
Literally the same as any other activity that currently gives you a reward.


income, i earn my income out of game, the joys of eve i can offer my rl skills and be paid for it ingame, its a bit hypocritical for you to say that, if we login at the same time and both shoot rats and i dont login 1 day i lose that 10k sp, thats being penalised for not logging in.

income has no real merit if you dont log in, nobody really cares, the daily is designed to get people to login or they feel like they lose something



If you use your RL income to get isk for the game, as you imply, spending a couple of hours working instead of playing will net you a skill injector, at least 100 K Sp instead of 10 K.
So you aren't losing anything by not logging and having your RL, actually you are gaining SP.
Simply you aren't playing.
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#42 - 2016-05-19 21:46:59 UTC
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:

As a whole, we do not want this. Yes there are some who do, and many more who probably don't care one way or the other, but the VAST majority of those who chose to voice an oppinion stated in no uncertain terms that this is a bad idea and they did not want it implemented.



the vast majority of those who chose to voice an opinion =/= vast majority of the players

From the vast majority of forum posts apparently we don't want non consensual PVP and tons of other features that instead have been part of the game for a long time and seem to attract players or at least to be accepted by them.

I don't pretend to know what the wast majority of the players want, especially not on the basis of some forum post. Making a survey on the basis of a few forum posts, mostly made by the same persons, give a very questionable result.
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#43 - 2016-05-19 21:51:14 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Not everyone hates it though, so you're suggesting the opinion of the people against it is somehow more important than the opinion of the people for it.

I give it two thumbs up!


Your trolling is in great form. Be less obvious about it in the future. Decent trolling is actually subtle.

Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
It is "KIll 1 NPC ", what is the time needed? 5 minutes.


And for the multiple playstyles that spend weeks at a time in non-combat ships in deep space, as well as the ones that don't train combat at all?
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#44 - 2016-05-19 22:04:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The most vocal about jump fatigue were against it, the most vocal about skynet carrier/supers were agaisnt it. The most vocal about any subject are always the ones who don;t want it because the others just won't bother posting about it.

True, but it's hard to count those who can't be bothered to voice an opinion one way or another. Granted, this isn't a voting process, and I'm not trying to say that it is, but CCP has lately had a bad habit of ignoring its players. Do it too much and it'll come back to bite them as people reach their own thresholds of tolerance for what CCP is doing.

I don't like dailies, nor do I like skill trading, are either (or both) enough to get me to quit? Nah, I like too much of the rest of this game. Doesn't mean I won't complain about the bad ideas, in the (futile) hope that CCP will listen.

I do try to throw my support for good ideas too, not just complain about bad ones. Unfortunately its a lot easier to find the energy to complain than to support.


A honest reply, but the last row show exactly why judging what people want by forum posts isn't a great way to do it.

Isaac Armer wrote:

Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
It is "KIll 1 NPC ", what is the time needed? 5 minutes.


And for the multiple playstyles that spend weeks at a time in non-combat ships in deep space, as well as the ones that don't train combat at all?


They don't get 10.000 SP.
I normally use +5 implants, that is a bit more than 10K extra sp/day.
And the multiple play stiles that don't use implants or use implants that give secondary bonuses but a lower stat bonus? Who think about them?
You want the same options for everyone, so why we don get all the same stats, withotu characteristic enhancing implants? that would level the SP earning field.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#45 - 2016-05-19 22:06:05 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
If you use your RL income to get isk for the game, as you imply, spending a couple of hours working instead of playing will net you a skill injector, at least 100 K Sp instead of 10 K.
So you aren't losing anything by not logging and having your RL, actually you are gaining SP.
Simply you aren't playing.


how am i not losing something which is given as a free incentive?

if i get offered a free lunch if i turn up to a restaraunt one day and i dont do it then im losing a free lunch, yeah i can buy the lunch because i worked some overtime but then its not free is it?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#46 - 2016-05-19 22:17:55 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
They don't get 10.000 SP.
I normally use +5 implants, that is a bit more than 10K extra sp/day.
And the multiple play stiles that don't use implants or use implants that give secondary bonuses but a lower stat bonus? Who think about them?
You want the same options for everyone, so why we don get all the same stats, withotu characteristic enhancing implants? that would level the SP earning field.


So balance in the game now goes out the window? Got it.

What playstyle specifically are you talking about that prevents you from using +5 implants using game mechanics?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2016-05-19 22:33:40 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
If you use your RL income to get isk for the game, as you imply, spending a couple of hours working instead of playing will net you a skill injector, at least 100 K Sp instead of 10 K.
So you aren't losing anything by not logging and having your RL, actually you are gaining SP.
Simply you aren't playing.


how am i not losing something which is given as a free incentive?

if i get offered a free lunch if i turn up to a restaraunt one day and i dont do it then im losing a free lunch, yeah i can buy the lunch because i worked some overtime but then its not free is it?


You didn't lose a free launch. You never had it in the first place. Something that is offered to you is only yours if you actually take it.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#48 - 2016-05-19 22:35:08 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
If you use your RL income to get isk for the game, as you imply, spending a couple of hours working instead of playing will net you a skill injector, at least 100 K Sp instead of 10 K.
So you aren't losing anything by not logging and having your RL, actually you are gaining SP.
Simply you aren't playing.


how am i not losing something which is given as a free incentive?

if i get offered a free lunch if i turn up to a restaraunt one day and i dont do it then im losing a free lunch, yeah i can buy the lunch because i worked some overtime but then its not free is it?


It is not free. You must do something for it. Same as if you want a skill injector, you gotta obtain and complete 20 times the "Suicide Squad" Level 4 mission.

Don't do it, don't get it. How should be somebody else's fault to get it?
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#49 - 2016-05-19 22:37:33 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
If you use your RL income to get isk for the game, as you imply, spending a couple of hours working instead of playing will net you a skill injector, at least 100 K Sp instead of 10 K.
So you aren't losing anything by not logging and having your RL, actually you are gaining SP.
Simply you aren't playing.


how am i not losing something which is given as a free incentive?

if i get offered a free lunch if i turn up to a restaraunt one day and i dont do it then im losing a free lunch, yeah i can buy the lunch because i worked some overtime but then its not free is it?


You didn't lose a free launch. You never had it in the first place. Something that is offered to you is only yours if you actually take it.


But, but, but... other kids will get a free lunch! It's not fair! If she doesn't wants a free lunch, then nobody must get a free lunch!
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2016-05-19 23:18:45 UTC
Wait, I just have to kill an npc, any npc, and I get 10k SP? Every day?

Sweet! My hobgobs kill belt rats when I go mining most days. Bonus!

Keep up the good work, CCP!

Davian Thule Pirkibo
Caldari 1
Caldari Alliance
#51 - 2016-05-19 23:26:25 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
its the fact that it incetivises 1 playstyle while giving a middle finger to every other playstyle
Not really, it's shooting a rat which most playstyles either will do naturally or can do with ease. I mean if you're a PvPer all you have to do is swoop into a belt, volley one rat and you're done. And remember this is just the first one which puts the system in place. Going forward there will be more with different rewards for different tasks. I imagine PvP tasks will be in there in the future too, as will mining and industrial tasks. I believe the reason a rat being killed was chosen is that it's readily available to the widest audience and allows them to build the basic system so it can be extended and balanced at a later date.


lots of rp'ers who live in systems where the faction they support are the main rats wont shoot that rat because you know if fcks the immersion and story that the players created, which this sandbox game once promoted.

lets not forget traders and haulers who will also miss out on this, even though these people are active in the game.

the reason this daily was made was because they couldnt be bothered to think of something more structured and just wanted numbers raised asap, nothing more, please dont paint it like a well thought idea as its a totally terrible execution



People still roleplay?
morion
Lighting Build
#52 - 2016-05-19 23:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: morion
1 Feeling disadvantaged is wrong.

2. All acounts still train a 24 hour skill Q regardless of this.

3. It's a beter alternative to a alarm clock no skill Q looking at you 2003

4. A incentive to log in and participat.

5. True disencentive would be removal of passive Q.

6. Cyclical just as tritanium can be sold for isk.
isk use for skill injectors.
Visa vee exstacted skils sold for isk.
isk spent into tritanium.
This is a incentive for effort nothing moor or less.

7. it off sets macro lost sp in the extract-inject process the ratio is ...???... testing
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#53 - 2016-05-19 23:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Isaac Armer wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
They don't get 10.000 SP.
I normally use +5 implants, that is a bit more than 10K extra sp/day.
And the multiple play stiles that don't use implants or use implants that give secondary bonuses but a lower stat bonus? Who think about them?
You want the same options for everyone, so why we don get all the same stats, without characteristic enhancing implants? that would level the SP earning field.


So balance in the game now goes out the window? Got it.

What playstyle specifically are you talking about that prevents you from using +5 implants using game mechanics?


What game mechanic prohibit you logging every day and kill a NPC? None. It a choice you make.

What game mechanic stop you from using +5 implants and instead use other implants or none? None. It is a choice you make.

Plenty of PvPers don't use high end stat boosting implants because they have a good chance to lose them or because they prefer sets that give different bonuses at the expense of lower stats, so we have playstiles that prefer less SP for other bonuses.

What game balance go out of the window? The one where I have more than 100 million SP and a newbie has some thousand?
The one where a guy with a few hundred thousand SP can fly a T2 frigate as well as me?
You have a strange idea of where the game balance in EVE rest.
Scruffled
#54 - 2016-05-20 00:51:42 UTC
EVE is a game that is close to a lot of peoples hearts. There are a lot of old MMO's that have had similar things happen. "The good days" are over. EVE, is a business model. It's not non-profit. Those who created and maintain it, want to continue their revenue and player base, which requires the business model to adapt and change. Gamers from 2003 are different from gamers in 2016. Just like the gamers in 2003, are different from gamers in 1990.

Bottom line is it's either adapt or die. The game cannot continue without evolving into something new.

"The dream is over." - John Lennon
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#55 - 2016-05-20 01:04:46 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
What game mechanic prohibit you logging every day and kill a NPC? None. It a choice you make.

What game mechanic stop you from using +5 implants and instead use other implants or none? None. It is a choice you make.

Plenty of PvPers don't use high end stat boosting implants because they have a good chance to lose them or because they prefer sets that give different bonuses at the expense of lower stats, so we have playstiles that prefer less SP for other bonuses.

What game balance go out of the window? The one where I have more than 100 million SP and a newbie has some thousand?
The one where a guy with a few hundred thousand SP can fly a T2 frigate as well as me?
You have a strange idea of where the game balance in EVE rest.


1. When you spend weeks on end not docked in systems with no stations, how do you suggest I kill an NPC every day, given thats the only way to gain SPs with this new "feature" Are you a newbie? Have you played this game outside of HS?

2. When did I mention PvP'ers? Stop being poor to get around game mechanics. Earn isk, bra

3. Today I learned you don't know what the word balance means. Thumbs up!
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#56 - 2016-05-20 01:24:05 UTC
More power to CCP if this works for them.

Personally would like some options other than shooting a rat, but got to start somewhere. Hopefully the range of activities are expanded over time.
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#57 - 2016-05-20 01:35:47 UTC
I also think that this is a bad idea. For multiple reasons.

1. Betrays one of CCP's core philosophies, that skills train at about the same rate regardless of activity level. I realize that as times go on games must change however CCP's niche is HTFU, which seems to be dissapearing.

2. Only aimed towards certain playstyles. For instance, I live in a wormhole. All I do is pvp. I haven't even had a farming ship in hole for the past 3 weeks after it got chased out. I regularly find content for my corp and shoot other wormholers but I will rarely be able to shoot rats every day if even once a week.

3. Opens doors to other possibilities. Some people may counter this argument by labelling it as the "slippery slope fallacy", however that fallacy involves large leaps in logic which cause it to be inaccurate. It is a scientifically proven psychological phenomenon that if, for instance, a person asks for a small favor, it is much more likely for them to do a second, larger thing which they wouldn't normally do if the first person asked them outright. I believe these daily opportunities may be the "small favor" before the bigger leap.

4. Casts CCP in a negative light. As new players come in, normally they'd see that it betrays the qualities characteristic of larger MMOs. However, now they will see that there are "daily quests" and attempt, ultimately to fail, to approach Eve as just another level up style MMO.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#58 - 2016-05-20 01:41:31 UTC
i don't think encouraging people to 'undock' is in any way A Bad Thing(tm).

I also reckon the reward should only apply to rat kills in low, null or wormhole space, not in high sec.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#59 - 2016-05-20 04:43:47 UTC
Consider the characters without combat skills.

Also, every NPC "rat" will be eradicated on sight. They'll only be common in security missions, which must be completed or one suffers a standing penalty.

Those useless anoms that litter hisec and nobody completes? Expect them to suddenly vanish.
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2016-05-20 05:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Coralas
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
I also think that this is a bad idea. For multiple reasons.

1. Betrays one of CCP's core philosophies, that skills train at about the same rate regardless of activity level. I realize that as times go on games must change however CCP's niche is HTFU, which seems to be dissapearing.



Injectors broke that already. I came back to the game, played a new character from the start (because its fun to start again sometimes), and without resubbing and grabbing old resources, I've added 1.5m skill points through injectors. ie you can poopsock the game now without having to buy someone elses character, but it is _still_ very slow. (ie half of my current SP are injected, and for all of that, I have unfinished skills for one races frigates and t3d, and I can use an astero for getting things in lowsec, and the only V skill for ships that I have is for destroyers to unlock the t3ds, its not for a ship I've even ever bought or intend to use directly).

Quote:


2. Only aimed towards certain playstyles. For instance, I live in a wormhole. All I do is pvp. I haven't even had a farming ship in hole for the past 3 weeks after it got chased out. I regularly find content for my corp and shoot other wormholers but I will rarely be able to shoot rats every day if even once a week.



Pretty sure there are rats in wormholes. pretty sure if you keep scanning you'll eventually find an easier wormhole too. In any case they intend adding more activities that will trigger the SP.

Quote:


3. Opens doors to other possibilities. Some people may counter this argument by labelling it as the "slippery slope fallacy", however that fallacy involves large leaps in logic which cause it to be inaccurate. It is a scientifically proven psychological phenomenon that if, for instance, a person asks for a small favor, it is much more likely for them to do a second, larger thing which they wouldn't normally do if the first person asked them outright. I believe these daily opportunities may be the "small favor" before the bigger leap.



When I looked long ago, the game had 23 years of training in it. If you want to optimize one part of the game, it pretty much locked out optimizing other parts of the game for the lifespan of most peoples subs (which is probably only 9-10 months).

ie just training a t2 large weapon group, battleships to 5 and the various support skills means not playing capitals for a year. Too long, too stupid.

Quote:


4. Casts CCP in a negative light. As new players come in, normally they'd see that it betrays the qualities characteristic of larger MMOs. However, now they will see that there are "daily quests" and attempt, ultimately to fail, to approach Eve as just another level up style MMO.


And then they undock from jita and a tornado insta locks them and they explode. There isn't many ways of playing this game that won't eventually cause you to come across eve style consequences.