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Wolf on a rampage

Author
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#21 - 2016-05-17 13:55:14 UTC
Kill the link alt. Complain less. Be happy.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#22 - 2016-05-17 15:40:07 UTC
Links will be different with the summer expansion - arguing over them now is silly.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#23 - 2016-05-17 18:22:17 UTC
I'm just trying to get to 100 confirmed booster kills before then.

Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Links will be different with the summer expansion - arguing over them now is silly.

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2016-05-17 20:01:25 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Kill the link alt. Complain less. Be happy.


Maybe when I get my scanning skills maxed out with a mid grade virtue set. Careful with that pod man.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2016-05-18 00:48:01 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:
We are sometimes prone to double-speak in eve … especially when something happens that we do not like.

Before I go on, my credentials: I am bad at eve, I am especially bad at PvP, but I’ve been around a while and have seen and done a lot of things in this game.

Target selection is a huge part of successful PvP in eve. For example I am usually happy to solo-tackle a Hurricane in my Pilgrim, but I leave Drakes and Ishtars well alone. Similarly I love the opportunity to tackle a svipul or two, but if they’re part of a 20-ship gang with their buddies waiting on the next-door gate then I stay vewy vewy quiet.

Similarly intel is also very important. For example I know certain characters to often be flying cyno ships and it’s the same ol’ TEST names that turn up to try and tarp me after I’ve managed to kill one of their brethren. I also keep eyes watching nearby systems and spies in some of my target’s corps. If my targets are formed-up and on a titan, or if their capital/supercapital hotdroppers are in ship and inspace, then I know it’s likely that my next juicy target is going to be tanked and cyno-fit.

Implants, boosters, and links are also important in allowing you to get the edge over your opponents. For a while I was using links to help my pilgrim by increasing its tank and speed, decreasing its effective size, and increasing the range of its point. That allowed me to get more kills because fast ships were less likely to be able to pull range and escape, I could keep them nearby long enough for me neuts to become effective.

Friends are also a huge benefit to PvP … be they other players or your own alts. A PvP gang is going to be able to kill a wider range of targets than any one member in isolation. Because TEST started destroying my anchored bubbles I woke-up a sabre alt and he’s been helping me out and, more so nowadays, getting more of the kills than I am.

So to me target selection, intel, performance augmenters, and friends are all legitimate things to improve your PvP. Why on earth would you be thinking that somebody who does all these things represents some sort of ‘cancer’ in eve? To me that guy is simply demonstrating half-intelligent gameplay and using the game dynamics and current meta to his advantage.

IMHO the cancer lies in the people who seriously suggest that sensible game-play is somehow a bad thing. Sure, there are folk who play disciplined solo-PvP with no boosts or scouts or buddies … and that is absolutely fine, it’s their choice. The folk who do that also seem to be realists, wishing for more pure-solo PvP but acknowledging that everyone plays eve differently and that it’s up to them to adapt and adjust to the various gameplays.

“His gameplay is pretty cancerous to EvE as it's 100% risk averse.” Nah, codswallop. He's undocked and he's engaging in small-gang PvP. It sounds like he's skilled, careful and tends to outsmart and outmanoeuvre most (all?) the people here. He also gets outsmarted from time to time. To my mind that's skill, not cancer ... the cancer lies in lazy incompetent players believing they somehow have a right to dominate over skilful players who put in the effort.


Buying a link alt is not skillful. Nor is running from any fight where victory is less than 99% assured. It's a game, not real life combat. It's ****** when everyone plays in a highly risk averse fashion, if I have to run you through the logic on that I'm going to be disappointed in your critical thinking skills.


lol, you are the only one mentioning the buying of a link alt. If you do not like losing to somebody, because they play eve better than you, then you have a heap of options available.
In combat games, like RL combat, few enter into an engagement trying to lose ... some are just better at ensuring victory. They utilise a range of tools, some that I mentioned above, to make the other-guys(s) more likely to be the losers.
Often the only recourse some losers feel capable of, is to moan and whine in forums about how unfair it is that somebody bested them ... cancers and all that. Adapt, learn, and improve already, and stop blaming other people for their success. In eve their success depends entirely on your failure.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2016-05-18 11:18:43 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:
We are sometimes prone to double-speak in eve … especially when something happens that we do not like.

Before I go on, my credentials: I am bad at eve, I am especially bad at PvP, but I’ve been around a while and have seen and done a lot of things in this game.

Target selection is a huge part of successful PvP in eve. For example I am usually happy to solo-tackle a Hurricane in my Pilgrim, but I leave Drakes and Ishtars well alone. Similarly I love the opportunity to tackle a svipul or two, but if they’re part of a 20-ship gang with their buddies waiting on the next-door gate then I stay vewy vewy quiet.

Similarly intel is also very important. For example I know certain characters to often be flying cyno ships and it’s the same ol’ TEST names that turn up to try and tarp me after I’ve managed to kill one of their brethren. I also keep eyes watching nearby systems and spies in some of my target’s corps. If my targets are formed-up and on a titan, or if their capital/supercapital hotdroppers are in ship and inspace, then I know it’s likely that my next juicy target is going to be tanked and cyno-fit.

Implants, boosters, and links are also important in allowing you to get the edge over your opponents. For a while I was using links to help my pilgrim by increasing its tank and speed, decreasing its effective size, and increasing the range of its point. That allowed me to get more kills because fast ships were less likely to be able to pull range and escape, I could keep them nearby long enough for me neuts to become effective.

Friends are also a huge benefit to PvP … be they other players or your own alts. A PvP gang is going to be able to kill a wider range of targets than any one member in isolation. Because TEST started destroying my anchored bubbles I woke-up a sabre alt and he’s been helping me out and, more so nowadays, getting more of the kills than I am.

So to me target selection, intel, performance augmenters, and friends are all legitimate things to improve your PvP. Why on earth would you be thinking that somebody who does all these things represents some sort of ‘cancer’ in eve? To me that guy is simply demonstrating half-intelligent gameplay and using the game dynamics and current meta to his advantage.

IMHO the cancer lies in the people who seriously suggest that sensible game-play is somehow a bad thing. Sure, there are folk who play disciplined solo-PvP with no boosts or scouts or buddies … and that is absolutely fine, it’s their choice. The folk who do that also seem to be realists, wishing for more pure-solo PvP but acknowledging that everyone plays eve differently and that it’s up to them to adapt and adjust to the various gameplays.

“His gameplay is pretty cancerous to EvE as it's 100% risk averse.” Nah, codswallop. He's undocked and he's engaging in small-gang PvP. It sounds like he's skilled, careful and tends to outsmart and outmanoeuvre most (all?) the people here. He also gets outsmarted from time to time. To my mind that's skill, not cancer ... the cancer lies in lazy incompetent players believing they somehow have a right to dominate over skilful players who put in the effort.


Buying a link alt is not skillful. Nor is running from any fight where victory is less than 99% assured. It's a game, not real life combat. It's ****** when everyone plays in a highly risk averse fashion, if I have to run you through the logic on that I'm going to be disappointed in your critical thinking skills.


lol, you are the only one mentioning the buying of a link alt. If you do not like losing to somebody, because they play eve better than you, then you have a heap of options available.
In combat games, like RL combat, few enter into an engagement trying to lose ... some are just better at ensuring victory. They utilise a range of tools, some that I mentioned above, to make the other-guys(s) more likely to be the losers.
Often the only recourse some losers feel capable of, is to moan and whine in forums about how unfair it is that somebody bested them ... cancers and all that. Adapt, learn, and improve already, and stop blaming other people for their success. In eve their success depends entirely on your failure.


You completely missed my point. The counter to risk averse play is yet more risk averse play. Less content all around is the result. Running a second account that makes your entire gang 25-30% better in a half dozen categories has nothing to do with skill. The cancer lies with players who feel they have a right to dominate based on their RL cash investment rather than their in game choices and relationships. And with those who refuse to take a fight where they aren't assured of victory; those who are totally reliant on players with balls to bring them their content.
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#27 - 2016-05-18 16:17:32 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


You completely missed my point. The counter to risk averse play is yet more risk averse play. Less content all around is the result. Running a second account that makes your entire gang 25-30% better in a half dozen categories has nothing to do with skill. The cancer lies with players who feel they have a right to dominate based on their RL cash investment rather than their in game choices and relationships. And with those who refuse to take a fight where they aren't assured of victory; those who are totally reliant on players with balls to bring them their content.


Yep

Using unbalance tools to feed their alta-E-go rather than finding fun in a challenge and taking a real risk. Then wondering why they cannot get content on a regular basis.

It's only because Eve Online promotes non-consensual PvP that many get much content at all.

Similar people play something like X:Com on easy level, complete it and then never play it again.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"

Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#28 - 2016-05-18 16:33:09 UTC
You'll cover the pod costs in co procs if you don't lose em all the time.

Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Kill the link alt. Complain less. Be happy.


Maybe when I get my scanning skills maxed out with a mid grade virtue set. Careful with that pod man.

Degnar Oskold
Moira.
#29 - 2016-05-18 17:20:25 UTC
If you notice someone using a link toon regularly, send an evemail to Thanatos Marathon including the name of the combat toon, the link alt they use, and the systems and time zones that they prefer.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2016-05-19 22:45:10 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

You completely missed my point. The counter to risk averse play is yet more risk averse play. Less content all around is the result. Running a second account that makes your entire gang 25-30% better in a half dozen categories has nothing to do with skill. The cancer lies with players who feel they have a right to dominate based on their RL cash investment rather than their in game choices and relationships. And with those who refuse to take a fight where they aren't assured of victory; those who are totally reliant on players with balls to bring them their content.


I don't think I missed it at all. I just saw it as more forum whining because other people are dominating you in eve ... and more trying to force other people to play their eve-game how *you* want them to.
This is not at all unusual, in eve or in other games, but is (IMHO) the hiding place of the weak. Saying other people do not have 'balls' because they keep on winning fights rather than losing them is just ridiculous. They're setting up and choosing so they do win, that is exactly how people win at things.
Poor players can improve by practice, effort, planning (etc) ... but if all they do is forum whine, they are not likely to improve at all and are just going to become increasingly despondent about their eve gameplay (and constantly blaming others for it).

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2016-05-20 00:50:52 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

You completely missed my point. The counter to risk averse play is yet more risk averse play. Less content all around is the result. Running a second account that makes your entire gang 25-30% better in a half dozen categories has nothing to do with skill. The cancer lies with players who feel they have a right to dominate based on their RL cash investment rather than their in game choices and relationships. And with those who refuse to take a fight where they aren't assured of victory; those who are totally reliant on players with balls to bring them their content.


I don't think I missed it at all. I just saw it as more forum whining because other people are dominating you in eve ... and more trying to force other people to play their eve-game how *you* want them to.
This is not at all unusual, in eve or in other games, but is (IMHO) the hiding place of the weak. Saying other people do not have 'balls' because they keep on winning fights rather than losing them is just ridiculous. They're setting up and choosing so they do win, that is exactly how people win at things.
Poor players can improve by practice, effort, planning (etc) ... but if all they do is forum whine, they are not likely to improve at all and are just going to become increasingly despondent about their eve gameplay (and constantly blaming others for it).


What does paying for a link alt have to do with planning or skill?

Likewise, risk aversion=/=skill. Your loss rate may go down but so will your overall engagement rate. If every player in the game sought only engagements with near certain victory, it would be a very boring game indeed.

You are putting words in my mouth and assuming I am complaining because I am getting "dominated." I don't understand what gives you this impression. I've long held the opinion that OGB combined with risk averse kite doctrines are cancer for the game.

W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#32 - 2016-07-18 11:23:07 UTC
This is why you watch popular youtube channels, or in this case specifically: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh2rKF49Cvs

Most of the "pro" pvpers (i.e only fly permalinked with implants but arent actually good at the game) follow those religiously. If miker, rhiload, lussy or suitona have a new video up you can expect people to copy that ****.

So you ran into a snaked linked 10mn wolf pressing orbit at 500. Probably orbitied you at 3-4km with 600 to 800m/s or so in reality while you missed everything and your drones also did nothing.
Estios
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2016-07-22 11:41:00 UTC
How does he keep losing pods in Empire space? That's pretty bad times
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#34 - 2016-07-23 05:24:30 UTC
Its much easier not to lose pods in nullsec tbh. If you dodge the bubbles/dictors you are good to go and thats usually quite easy (especially since everythign gets scouted with link alts). Cant do anything to the cloaked proteus waiting for you to die to warp to the celestial you warp your pod too, where due to 13au/s+ it arrives first and bombs your pod though.
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