Warfare & Tactics

Hey, so this thing just happend to me and I need help to figure it out.
I lost my precious Astero (for the second time this way, countless times total) because of Scram.

If I understand the matter correctly I need Warp Core Strength to be at least 0 to successfully warp out.
If above sentence is true than I just don't get it:


My standard Astero fit contains 2x 'Halcyon' Core Equalizer I, so my WCS should be 2 and therefore I should be able to warpout under effect of a Scrambler. (2-2>=0)
Than why couldn't I?


I was cought by surprise at Relic in Nullsec. In that kind of situations, I'm always prepared: before hacking I align my ship to some safe location and I monitor overview and d-scan for any possible hostilities. In case of any, just one click and I'm out.
Usually, those steps guarantee my safe evacuation, but this time Stratios decloaked right next to me, and before I realized, I was already Scrammed.
Still, I should be able to warp out. I launched my ECM drones, activated armor repairer while trying to enter warp and cried on the inside watching my lovely ship (with precious loot from many sites) beeing turned to scrap.

Is it possible that enemy used more than one Scram on me? If so, would I be able to tell the difference? Like those "debuff icons", that show what modules are beeing used on me, would I see one or two of them?


Thanks for any input on the matter, and sorry If some of those questions appears to be noob'ish (I'm still relatively new player).
Temporarily desperate,
LU

Yes, he simply used more scrams or faction scrams to increase the effect.

As far as I know, the UI doesn't display if you have more scrams on you. I think you can hover over the scram icon when scarammed and it should say "2x". But honestly, I'm not sure since I have never been scrammed by dual scrams, cause I don't use stabs.

Correct, however he looks like a hunter so that is his job, you were just unlucky, dont worry though, the last one he lost cost 950mil isk

cant post killmails here, but if you got to zkillboard and type in the killers name you will see he lost one and it shows his fit for you

Hi Leeloo, I checked your KB and see that you have also donated some asteros to my guys. Thank you very much.

The particular kill that you’re mentioning appears to have been achieved, ultimately, though the hunter outsmarting your stabbiness by fitting more warp-stopping capability than you had warp-augmenting capability. However, knowing the circumstances in which my guys killed you, I can only suggest that you talk to colleagues and friends and learn a little more about nullsec / lowsec dynamics … and how to avoid again becoming a victim to them.

For example, given how we’re operating in YMJG atm, we would never have killed you if you’d just flown your ship in a half-sensible way.
Similarly I am wondering at the gameplay dynamics that have let a stratios catch you.

Another dynamic that has allowed me to kill multi-stabbed ships is the beloved MWD. When you MWD burn to escape and then try to warp out in a different direction, as so often happens, it can take an awful lot longer to align-warp because your MWD is still running. That delay often gives my warrior IIs just enough extra time to kill ships that have otherwise escaped my clutches. When I am bravely running away in such a manner I try to remember to switch my MWD off before trying to escape-warp … unless my burn is already in the direction of my intended escape-warp.

I believe you’d be better off putting effort into learning to play eve and understand the game’s dynamics, than trying to rely on stabs to protect against poor gameplay. Once you better understand the game that is going on around you, you may find those awful stabs entirely unnecessary and start fitting in other things to those freed-uplowslots.

Good luck, it can be dangerous out there.

p.s. as for multi-scrams, yes, it’s a not uncommon specialty setup. I once built a dedicated manticore, setup to -9, when I was solo hunting a particularly cagey w-space transport. It was a hellishly expensive bomber, but I finally caught him … despite his inbuilt protection and many stabs.

p.p.s. Much along the lines of Lloyd's (much shorter) comment below

You might not want to hear this but it would be best to not use stabs as a crutch and instead rely on your situational awareness. With the exception of stealth bombers, all ships have a targeting delay after decloaking. Assuming your attacker is not warping to you decloaked and as long as you are paying attention to your overview you should have sufficient time to warp out before the attacker is able to lock you. If he is warping decloaked or not able to cloak at all, proper utilization of d-scan should keep you safe. Fitting inertial stablizers or nanofibers will lower your align time allowing you to warp out even faster if you are looking for evasive modules to replace your stabs.

Nah. That advice would be sensible if you were talking about accelerating from 0 to warp, but generally speaking if you are tryingto change direction while MWDing at full speed, turning MWD of will only make it worse - you'll be spending too much time uncontrollably decelerating. It's especially visible on flying bricks (I thought so myself before learning the hard way on a plated arbi).

2op:

Hunters expect you to be stabbed to oblivion. Thus stabbing is useless.
Either train situational awareness and GTFO to V or maybe try 10mn AB astero with at least a scram (better scram+web) to negate the enemy MWD. The only problem then becomes burning out of warp disruptor range on heated AB before the drones eat you.

All faction scrams now have a strength of 3. Makes a navy maulus pretty crazy.

I'm not much into trolling, but hey ... whatever!

I'm bad at eve and bad at PvP, but I tend to offer advice from my own actual experience.

You have no clue at all about the circumstances under which I've killed OP, or even how many times. Unlike you, I know those circumstances very well and, as I said, if he'd flown even 'half sensibly' he'd not have died.

My comment re MWD was not specific to him and that particular circumstance ... just another observation based on my own kills and deaths.

Hell, you end up saying much the same in the end ... after a gratuitous slag-off ... learn to play, learn to use resources, and you will have less need of stabs.

Quoted for truth.

Warp Core Stabilizers can only help you once someone's found you and gotten a target lock, and then not always as you discovered.

Far better to work on improving your situational awareness and use those lowslots slots for something really useful, like nanofibers, than to let stabs give you a false sense of security. Your little Exploration fit Astero isn't the hardiest of vessels, there's a lot of ships out there that can simply alpha it off the field, making stabs doubly useless. Your best defence is not being found and locked onto in the first place.

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it, but the Heavy Interdictor class of ship can hold you down regardless how many warp stabs you have. Stabs also don't help you at all against Bubbles, for those you need an interceptor or tech three cruiser with the appropriate subsystems installed.

If someone new enters local while you're running a relic site, often the best thing to do is burn off the site a little and cloak up. You then have time to figure out what they're doing. If they're just passing through, you'll get back to your hacking in short order. If they're hunting you, you're already nice and safe, cloaked up and ready to make good your escape.

Cloaked or not, with others in local, keep mashing your D-Scan and make sure it's set to detect Core and Combat probes. Once you see probes on a 14.3AU/360 scan, set your D-Scan to ~2-3 AU and 360 degrees. When you see eight probes in the results, chances are good they've locked down your position (eg: they've probed down the relic/data site you're at and can warp in).

In general, when you see Combat probes on D-Scan, cloak up and get safe. If you're ever unsure of things, cloak up and get safe. You can always come back to the site later.

Make a little time and have a read of Feyd Rautha Harkonnen's rather useful little list of helpful tips and tricks. While he's writing advice for PvP, understanding some of the concepts he explains will help you survive.

Ok guys, I see a lot of responses, and for all of them I am thankfull - the more info I can take for consideration the better.

However!

• I am perfectly fine with the fit I came up with.
• I will not loose those stabs, as they offer me additional protection - not only from surprises during hacking but also gatecamps. They have saved my arse enough times, to make me confident in this topic.
• I know that situational awarness is the key, but during hacking whatever will I do, my focus and attention will be split - that's just how it is.
• I know about advantages and disadvantages of activating prop modules, be it mwd or afterburner.
• I will not fit mwd. I preffer afterburner. Again, gatecamps: sig radius and locking time. Afterburner is enough for my needs.

You may think of me as a noob. Doesn't matter, I actually think I got pretty good at it.
Yes, I am loosing lots of them (Asteros). I am prepared for that. There are always several of them at my home station, fitted and ready for exploration expedition ;)

In case you are interested, I am loosing my ship (on average) every fourth expedition. (1/4)
Cost of one fully fitted Astero is a bit less than 100mil. And one sucessfull expedition (on which i spend a few days), rewards me between 200-500mil. So do the math yourself ;)


In summary: thank you for all the input. Wanted to ask for one simple issue, and recived more info than expected. Much apreciated!

Fly safe!
And catch me if you can :]
LU