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Sub-capital neuts have reduced efficiency vs small targets
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Greven Hakiro
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-05-19 10:20:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Greven Hakiro
Hi,

It seems that heavy neuts have changed recently. They now don't work as effectively against smaller targets. There's a new attribute on them, signature resolution, and its value is set to 100m.
Funnily enough this attribute doesn't always show for people. I was able to see it yesterday while in my hyperion, but then I reshipped to a bhaal and hasn't been able to see it anymore.

What's less funny is that a BS with a heavy neut isn't able to cap out a non-MWD'ing ceptor now, as its neut will only work at about 35% effectiveness.
Also, a bhall is not a great choice vs guardians due to their small sig.

Has this change been announced somewhere? I couldn't find it :(

All the best,
Greven
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#2 - 2016-05-19 11:08:07 UTC
From what I remember, only the capital neuts were supposed to have the signature resolution-restriction on them. Due to TQ being down, I cannot go check it atm, but at least EFT only lists signature on capital neuts and not on larges.

Wormholer for life.
Greven Hakiro
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-05-19 12:11:45 UTC
Just tested this again. Hyperion with a heavy neut vs an astero.
Took away 200 of his cap only.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#4 - 2016-05-19 12:28:13 UTC
if this is true, this change sucks huge balls
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-05-19 12:34:51 UTC
Are you testing it in heavy neut falloff or heavy neut optimal?
Greven Hakiro
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-05-19 12:38:14 UTC
Within optimal of course.
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-05-19 12:40:38 UTC
To my knowledge it was only capital neuts that received the signature radius treatment. Need to go digging for patch notes again but i do not think this is intended?
howling wind
Deliverance.
Arrival.
#8 - 2016-05-19 12:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: howling wind
Huh, I actually wasn't convinced but tested it anyway.

T2 Heavy nuet removed 600GJ from target, I was testing on a shuttle with 25 sig. Cycled the nuet and the shuttle lost 150 cap from its 312GJ pool. thats 1/4 of the stated capacitor to be removed which would make sense if the signature resolution of the nuet was set at 100m.

So either I'm dumb or **** at maths, or this is actually a real thing. The more you know...

Edit: tested with a medium T2 Nuet (180/cycle) on the same target with 25m sig and the nuet still only applied 25% of its stated effect. I gotta be missing something here.
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-05-19 13:20:06 UTC
Greven Hakiro wrote:
Hi,

It seems that heavy neuts have changed recently. They now don't work as effectively against smaller targets. There's a new attribute on them, signature resolution, and its value is set to 100m.
Funnily enough this attribute doesn't always show for people. I was able to see it yesterday while in my hyperion, but then I reshipped to a bhaal and hasn't been able to see it anymore.

What's less funny is that a BS with a heavy neut isn't able to cap out a non-MWD'ing ceptor now, as its neut will only work at about 35% effectiveness.
Also, a bhall is not a great choice vs guardians due to their small sig.

Has this change been announced somewhere? I couldn't find it :(

All the best,
Greven


Are you reading the value from in game? Can't see anything listed.
Greven Hakiro
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-05-19 13:22:18 UTC
Neither can I now. I could only see it for a very limited amount of time yesterday evening.
Also, none of the lads I was talking to at the time could see it.

In my opinion something was coded wrong and all neuts have the capital neut penalty applied to them right now.
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-05-19 13:24:24 UTC
Just to confirm you have tested it since the removal of it in the list and it is still functioning incorrectly?
Greven Hakiro
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-05-19 13:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Greven Hakiro
Switch Savage wrote:
Just to confirm you have tested it since the removal of it in the list and it is still functioning incorrectly?


Yep, tested this about 1 hour ago. Heavy neut vs astero within neuting optimal range = astero loses roughly 200 cap.

Edit: fixed typos
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-05-19 13:27:35 UTC
Good spot then i cannot imagine this is intended prob best to get a ticket up.
Jessie McPewpew
U2EZ
#14 - 2016-05-19 13:36:54 UTC
Even capital neuts need to be changed to function like the regular ones. I can understand why damage mitigation due to sig resolution is important but it shouldn't affect ewar capabilities especially neuts.
Zathra Narazi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2016-05-19 18:17:20 UTC
Jessie McPewpew wrote:
Even capital neuts need to be changed to function like the regular ones. I can understand why damage mitigation due to sig resolution is important but it shouldn't affect ewar capabilities especially neuts.

Why shouldn't E-war work like everything else, other than "I fly battleships and I like to win"?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#16 - 2016-05-19 18:38:52 UTC
Zathra Narazi wrote:
Jessie McPewpew wrote:
Even capital neuts need to be changed to function like the regular ones. I can understand why damage mitigation due to sig resolution is important but it shouldn't affect ewar capabilities especially neuts.

Why shouldn't E-war work like everything else, other than "I fly battleships and I like to win"?

Grab a battleship, go pick a fight with a sigtanked ishkur and the ask that again.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2016-05-20 00:33:07 UTC
Zathra Narazi wrote:
Why shouldn't E-war work like everything else, other than "I fly battleships and I like to win"?


Besides what Ralph already said...

EWAR is one of the very few "equalizers" in the EvE realm. If sig tanking worked against EWAR, then there's no longer any viable way to punch downward. Think about this...target painting is EWAR. If you sig tank, you're already harder to lock, harder to track with weapons, and harder to apply damage with missiles. On top of all that, you want to reduce the ability for the direct counter of that, to work properly?

It's already fairly easy to use frigate swarms to overwhelm larger opponents, and that's a good thing. But smart pilots of larger ships have a few, not many but a few, options to help punch down, and EWAR chief among them. Size relations in EvE are rather healthy right now and if you mess with something as major as EWAR interactions in regards to size, you risk absolutely crippling the game balance and throwing many years of rebalancing into chaos.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Greven Hakiro
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-05-23 12:58:17 UTC
So I just tested this again.
It looks like all three sub-capital neuts are affected.

Tried a medium and small neut vs a mate of mine in an Ares.
They both worked at 100% when he had his MWD on and his sig was > 100m.
With the MWD switched off they all worked at reduced efficiency.

I wonder how many people died so far due to being unable to shake off a tackler with their neuts...
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#19 - 2016-05-23 16:07:22 UTC
Has anyone done a bug-report about it yet?

Wormholer for life.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#20 - 2016-05-23 17:23:38 UTC
So is this in fact a bug - or a stealth change?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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