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war support
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Thorin Kendishy
G0LD RUSH
#1 - 2016-05-15 18:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorin Kendishy
Beitrag in Deutsch

translated by Sascha Wolfenbach

Hello all,

the defender option in wars is well known to everyone and how pointless it is.
Nearly everyone wants ISK, but support only comes from a few.

The idea is to introduce some sort of a bounty system.

The corp who is offering support can demand payments for ship & structure kills.
As attacked corp you can accept or reject the offer.
Cost only apply by acceptance when they really delivered service.
For example a (Battleship) destroyed 100mil ISK.

Within the ship type fields the supporter can declare what he wants and the corp that needs the support can decide to accept or decline the offer.
Benefit of this is that you only pay after the service was completed, likewise contracts.

Ideas & constructive diskussion is much appreciated!

Regards
Thorin
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2 - 2016-05-15 22:18:33 UTC
The bounty system already works this way. When you get decced and call in allies you can put a bounty on your aggressors and your allies get paid for destroying their stuff.

You can also make an arrangement with your allies without the need for a mechanic like this. Open up a conversation and make a deal. It's more interesting this way as well. It requires socialising, haggling and is open to betrayal. All the fun parts of eve really.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Lugh Crow-Slave
#3 - 2016-05-15 22:20:14 UTC
the game should not protect your agreements with other parties more it has to. Trust is a big part of eve.


also your statement that no one ever uses this is just false maybe rather than hoping some random group offers and follows through you bring in friends even if your so repugnant that you have to buy some.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Thorin Kendishy
G0LD RUSH
#4 - 2016-05-16 16:52:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorin Kendishy
With a bounty but you only get 10% of the value of the destroyed ship and not all.

In addition, the bounty will not be used in a Empire war.
Often Concord has something about it.


So you pay for services that no one performs?

greetings
Thorin
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#5 - 2016-05-16 22:09:03 UTC
That depends on the corp you hire.

Mercs that dont keep their word wont find much work.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#6 - 2016-05-16 22:25:15 UTC
op , just pay Public Enemy or Break-A-Wish Foundation to keep your citadel alive and stop faffing about with nobodys.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Ix Method
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-05-17 14:19:14 UTC
Kinda agree with the general idea, there should be more flexibility in how you reward allies and similarly how you pay off aggressors - variable bounties (and on more that just ships), scaling rewards, transfers of assets rather than isk, etc.

Straight cash payments and hoping is a sloppy mechanic.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#8 - 2016-05-17 15:18:50 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
Straight cash payments and hoping is a sloppy mechanic.


People used to do pay-per-kill, you know what would happen? One of two things, you'd kill an absolute ton of stuff and the client would turn out to be too poor to actually pay you what he owed, or the target would not log in for a week, which is generally considered a win, but you'd get effectively no payment.

Anything other than a lump sum up front isn't worth the time and effort.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#9 - 2016-05-17 16:17:30 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Ix Method wrote:
Straight cash payments and hoping is a sloppy mechanic.


People used to do pay-per-kill, you know what would happen? One of two things, you'd kill an absolute ton of stuff and the client would turn out to be too poor to actually pay you what he owed, or the target would not log in for a week, which is generally considered a win, but you'd get effectively no payment.

Anything other than a lump sum up front isn't worth the time and effort.



We did pay per kill. When I negotiated the contract I gave the hiring party an option to put a cap on it. If we were reaching the cap, I'd reach out to my employer and see what they wanted to do. We only got stiffed once and after several billion in losses, the customer finally came across w/ the (arbitrary) 6 bil for us to stop dismantling his alliance. I'd stiff you, but it's mostly because of those glasses - just wow!

A typical contract would be:
1. Cost of the dec (this was important before they 'fixed' dec fees and created the current HS player farming mechanics)
2. Contract Fee (variable based on contractor, contractee, how busy we were, my mood)
3. Per Kill price (we had a price list - 1 mill for hauler, 5 mil for t1 cruiser - that sort of thing)

As I recall the only corp to ever get stiffed publically on pay per kill costs was Noir and the details are old, but I think it was bad on Noir for not keeping the customer updated on the mounting fees (quite a large sum as I recall) and bad on the customer for not realizing what they were getting into. The punch line was that the customer kind of poo poo'd Noir when they didn't pay the bill and felt kind of safe and secure as a null entitiy - and Noir just chewed on them until they paid up and apologized.

Pay per kill is fine and if you get stiffed on the fee you get to have some serious internet spaceships fun.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#10 - 2016-05-17 17:02:24 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Ix Method wrote:
Straight cash payments and hoping is a sloppy mechanic.


People used to do pay-per-kill, you know what would happen? One of two things, you'd kill an absolute ton of stuff and the client would turn out to be too poor to actually pay you what he owed, or the target would not log in for a week, which is generally considered a win, but you'd get effectively no payment.

Anything other than a lump sum up front isn't worth the time and effort.

They're all fairly workable problems though, escrows, upfront fees, etc.. Isk is a fairly narrow way of doing things anyways, why can't wars be formally closed with the transfer of a say dozen POCOs?

Wars have veered between fun and **** but have a fairly niche set of uses, all these grand visions of competing corps using them strategically... in general, not really. All the stuff being developed now should really open things up for a decent revamp of wars generally, there's no reason not to hope for a lot more from them going forward.

Travelling at the speed of love.