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Anti-Interdiction Nuliffication System

Author
Iain Cariaba
#21 - 2016-05-16 07:08:14 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
The theoretical possibility is very much active and alive in systems like Hakonen, Jan and the notorious Rancer/Miroitem, Messoya and even Tama. People use smartbomb camps to great effect.

I couldn't tell you how many times I've had to bounce between safes in those systems, in an insta-warp interceptor, because someone was sitting on the gate I wanted to go through with smartbombs going off.

Just because people are unwilling to use the methods provided to counter a particular mechanic doesn't mean the mechanic is broken.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#22 - 2016-05-16 11:53:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Iain Cariaba wrote:

Just because people are unwilling to use the methods provided to counter a particular mechanic doesn't mean the mechanic is broken.


"Just because people are unwilling to form a 200 titan counterblob, doesnt mean titans are broken"
Ian Cariaba (c) 2012


hardly anyone except of few hardcore lowsec pipe campers (where they cant be bubbled and can easily get out because 8x stabbed) is using sb battleships. Shows how impractical, bad, ineffective and pain in the ass this only tactic of catching interceptors is and why we need a better solution.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
a blanket nerf to nullification or agility hurts other ships more than the ceptors. A Blocakde Runner in a bubble would be a sitting duck instead of being able to maneuver back to the gate or out of the way of a dictor/ceptor trying to decloak it (as one example).


what? how does nerf to interceptors hurt other ships? I dont quite understand.
How are blockade runners related to this topic?
If there is a good gatecamp of few skilled people, there shouldnt be an easy way out as per clicking warp button as if there were no gatecamp at all - at least not with an entry level 15m ship type.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#23 - 2016-05-16 12:55:54 UTC
This idea opens the door to my anti-nullification bubble nullification module. It's a high slot mod I've been working on. You could activate it to nullify an anti nullification bubbles. It would have a side effect of starbursting any ships stationary on the gate (53.6km range - unskilled). Balancing factor would be that in only starbursts ships if there is an anti-nullification bubble active in it's range.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#24 - 2016-05-16 12:57:25 UTC
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-05-16 13:13:03 UTC
so long a a sabre can sit on a gate cloaked then bubble anything coming through with pretty much no risk then interdiction nullification should exist.

Smartbombs work fine, not a solo one but more than one is great and around my area which has been mentioned is very common for sb camps (they are fun).

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2016-05-16 13:13:45 UTC
How about a new script for Hictors that generate a smaller (actual size to balance) bubble that counter nullification. You'd need to man the gate to get a good coverage of the gate and build an actual camp since inty can probably burn back in the time it takes for a Hictor to lock them, let alone kill them.
Iain Cariaba
#27 - 2016-05-16 15:29:55 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
hardly anyone except of few hardcore lowsec pipe campers (where they cant be bubbled and can easily get out because 8x stabbed) is using sb battleships. Shows how impractical, bad, ineffective and pain in the ass this only tactic of catching interceptors is and why we need a better solution.

You need to get out more if you think that's the case. I run across pipe bombs and smartbomb gate camps rather often while roaming nullsec for relic sites.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#28 - 2016-05-16 15:48:28 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
what? how does nerf to interceptors hurt other ships? I dont quite understand.
How are blockade runners related to this topic?
If there is a good gatecamp of few skilled people, there shouldnt be an easy way out as per clicking warp button as if there were no gatecamp at all - at least not with an entry level 15m ship type.

This from page 1:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
If it was going to be changed though, it should not be nullification but align time. People shouldn't be able to be safe via passive anchorables, we should reward active play - like camps. So if anything needs to happen, it needs to be align times. Imo.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#29 - 2016-05-16 16:10:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Nana Skalski wrote:
Some interceptors bother you when tech 3 can do it also?
Are interceptors a lot more scarier?
I just wonder...


scary is not the issue.
they are just too cheap, they are entry level skill wise and are accessible to anyone after 2 weeks playing, you dont need to risk 600m + SP loss when flying one unlike T3 whilst negating pretty much everything in your route aside of rare SB camps.


Lan Wang wrote:
so long a a sabre can sit on a gate cloaked then bubble anything coming through with pretty much no risk then interdiction nullification should exist.

no risk? Sabre is easily killed.
further, cloaky sabre cant even target anything in the next 20 seconds! just burn off and warp.

Nana Skalski wrote:
Smartbombs work fine, not a solo one but more than one is great and around my area which has been mentioned is very common for sb camps (they are fun).

if they would work fine, everyone wouldnt fly interceptors. Fact is, they dont and thats why they are so rare and thats the reason why they work fine for you - because there is virtually no chance to run into a smartbombing BS, especially if you know the usual places.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#30 - 2016-05-16 16:20:33 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Some interceptors bother you when tech 3 can do it also?
Are interceptors a lot more scarier?
I just wonder...


scary is not the issue.
they are just too cheap, they are entry level skill wise and are accessible to anyone after 2 weeks playing, you dont need to risk 600m + SP loss when flying one unlike T3 whilst negating pretty much everything in your route aside of rare SB camps.


Lan Wang wrote:
so long a a sabre can sit on a gate cloaked then bubble anything coming through with pretty much no risk then interdiction nullification should exist.

no risk? Sabre is easily killed.
further, cloaky sabre cant even target anything in the next 20 seconds! just burn off and warp.

Nana Skalski wrote:
Smartbombs work fine, not a solo one but more than one is great and around my area which has been mentioned is very common for sb camps (they are fun).

if they would work fine, everyone wouldnt fly interceptors. Fact is, they dont and thats why they are so rare and thats the reason why they work fine for you - because there is virtually no chance to run into a smartbombing BS, especially if you know the usual places.



I think the 20 sec uncloaking delay is a little long. Isn't it more like 9??
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2016-05-16 16:28:16 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:



I think the 20 sec uncloaking delay is a little long. Isn't it more like 9??


It's 10 seconds unless you bling the cloak. Then you can get to 9 with bling.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#32 - 2016-05-16 16:28:42 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:

I think the 20 sec uncloaking delay is a little long. Isn't it more like 9??


ok 20 sec. is for unskilled cloak.
with cloaking 4 its 12 seconds for improved cloak (which is still a LOT) a,d 18 seconds für prototype.
What I'm saying is cloaky sabre is gimped and kills just total noobs.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2016-05-16 18:07:58 UTC
you do know how smartbombing works yeah? nothing to do with interdiction nullification or align time, and if smartbombing wasnt effective then you wouldnt have smartbombing camps in nearly every pipeline in lowsec, it works for me because doesnt matter how many people you kill in rancer they just keep coming and its super funny

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#34 - 2016-05-16 18:23:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
smartbombs arent an effective counter to nullified interceptors. Stop asking to bring a slowest subcap ship class in game for hunting the fastest ships. Like I said there are lowsec some people doing sb camps yet they have done them forever, they have nothing to do with interceptor hunting specifically. In null sec hardly anyone is doing it.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2016-05-16 18:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
doesnt matter how fast a ship is, the smartbombs kill them when landing and they have bad tank, so they die, you just want them removed so you can get easier kills in your sabre.

so what about the cloaky mwd trick, i suppose you are agaisnt that which is pretty much on every ship you come across now

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#36 - 2016-05-16 18:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
no, I'm not against cloak-mwd trick, since bubbles help.
im against entry level, 15m ships which negate 99.9% of the whole eve universe and offer safe travel across null/WH by just repeatedely clicking the jump button.
Iain Cariaba
#37 - 2016-05-16 18:58:03 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
you just want them removed so you can get easier kills in your sabre.

More likely he wants them removed because they're the only things he's not afraid to fight in his sabre. Not sure he even flies an interdictor, though, considering the lack of awareness he has about the mechanics behind it. After all, you supposedly need 20s to lock someone after decloaking in order to keep them from warping off with your bubbles.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#38 - 2016-05-16 19:20:09 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
smartbombs arent an effective counter to nullified interceptors. Stop asking to bring a slowest subcap ship class in game for hunting the fastest ships. Like I said there are lowsec some people doing sb camps yet they have done them forever, they have nothing to do with interceptor hunting specifically. In null sec hardly anyone is doing it.

The good thing is that the smartbomb BS do not need to move at all to intercept ceptors. They just need to be in the right spot between gates.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#39 - 2016-05-16 19:36:34 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How about a new script for Hictors that generate a smaller (actual size to balance) bubble that counter nullification. You'd need to man the gate to get a good coverage of the gate and build an actual camp since inty can probably burn back in the time it takes for a Hictor to lock them, let alone kill them.


As long a Hictors will get a nerf to only fit one..

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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2016-05-16 19:50:56 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How about a new script for Hictors that generate a smaller (actual size to balance) bubble that counter nullification. You'd need to man the gate to get a good coverage of the gate and build an actual camp since inty can probably burn back in the time it takes for a Hictor to lock them, let alone kill them.


As long a Hictors will get a nerf to only fit one..


My guess is people would be against that limit.