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Recurring Opportunities coming soon

First post
Author
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#2181 - 2016-05-14 10:26:53 UTC
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time.

So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest.

Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time.

Here are better ways to get people to log in:

  • Interesting PvE
  • PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example
  • Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like


Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day.


I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury.
You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical?


Dailies give a higher SP boost than +5s implants and a perfect remap.

I would prefer CCP to remove / redesign the entire attribute system, since as you pointed out it kinda favours the people whose playstyle doesn't have a high risk of being podded. Either way. One broken system doesn't justify the implementation of another broken system.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

jonmuis
Resons
Just let it happen
#2182 - 2016-05-14 13:40:38 UTC
so you can do this on all characters, and CCP makes how much off the extra skill extractors?


people it's not about "content" it's again about profit.


please CCP you don't need to turn this great game into WoW to make more money.

T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#2183 - 2016-05-14 14:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: T-Jay Charante
jonmuis wrote:
so you can do this on all characters, and CCP makes how much off the extra skill extractors?


people it's not about "content" it's again about profit.


please CCP you don't need to turn this great game into WoW to make more money.



1 character per account.

Approx 3.5 mill SP per year if you have OCD and do it every day. Whats that, 7 skill extractors a year? CCP milking the customer base for dank profit!!
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2184 - 2016-05-14 20:36:43 UTC
Axhind wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Few links about dailies to get some perspective:

Dailies on fanfest 1

Dailies on fanfest 2

CZ about dailies



Those perspectives are full of crap. If CCP actually made a meaningful game people would log in. From the empire building in 0.0 we have gone to living in low sec NPC stations and then faffing around in 0.0 with sov lasers where permanence of everything is just 1 ship away.

No amount of dailies is going to counteract the drop in player numbers due to removing unique things in EVE and replacing them with crap from Korean F2P games and theme park MMOs. Seagull and fozzie have destroyed everything that was good about this game. Look at what older devs said and did. They wanted people to build homes and empires in 0.0, the idea was that it would be a vibrant and politically complex region not just a ratting/mining while all important things sit in NPC sov/low sec because you have to be pants on head ******** to stage out of a station that a single ship can take.

Blame dailies for everyone mining and ratting all day in null.

Two words: sov grind. That mechanism sets up a routine which gets set in peoples' minds and is hard to break out of. Mining and ratting can be multiboxed without difficulty, so that wasn't going to do much for player interaction. And it's supposed to be done... daily. The question of "How many left null because of that?" would be a useful one to ask.

A signature :o

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#2185 - 2016-05-15 07:15:06 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time.

So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest.

Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time.

Here are better ways to get people to log in:

  • Interesting PvE
  • PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example
  • Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like


Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day.


Again. You're not losing SP. You're not earning them. Also you can buy them back. Or could if you didn't lost all that ISK while you didn't play. EVE is such harsh mistress, punishes you for not playing with her.

As for making the game more interesting, wake up. CCP thinks that they are doing exactly that with the Rubicon Plan. Neville Smit's 85% may disagree but CCP owes them/you/us nothing.

PCU reaction to Citadel has been a big notorious zero. Server population is at 2008 levels and keeps going down. But CCP thinks that the Rubicon Plan is doing well. And after all they can't just walk away from it at this point. Maybe they could remove teams from a structure set, slow down the whole thing and do something instead for PvE and high sec and solo play and the "85%", but even then, they would need to get it right. And that is unlikely for the little we know about the plans for PvE.
Shakira Akira
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2186 - 2016-05-15 19:51:51 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Again. You're not losing SP. You're not earning them. Also you can buy them back. Or could if you didn't lost all that ISK while you didn't play. EVE is such harsh mistress, punishes you for not playing with her.


I spend a lot of time away that I cannot login even if I wanted to. (it's my job, and many in the armed forces that play the game have the same issue) We already are LOSING out for not logging in by missed fights, isk etc. Now with a daily system. we can add SP to that? It's BS.

Even for bitter vets, 1/6th of a days worth of SP EVERY day is a lot. Not to mention even further devalues the point of planning ahead your skill queue as you can just inject whatever skill you want after a couple of days the most. So how exactly is this system supposed to live up to the "hardcore" nature of eve? If you don't need to plan ahead anymore, you don't need to optimize your attributes, and you don't even need to bother with +5s as you can just get that for free by logging in once a day?


Dantelion Shinoni
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2187 - 2016-05-15 22:19:01 UTC
http://crossingzebras.com/dailies-in-eve-a-design-challenge/

Haven't seen a link to this article in the thread so I'm linking it.

It pretty much addresses the ONE point that really bothers people, the fact that you do have to do that task EVERY. FREAKING. DAY. The proposed idea is by far the best take on this issue I have seen.

Make it a cumulative weekly thing and I, and many people with jobs, family, or just a goddam life, will fully support it.
Caleb Seremshur
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#2188 - 2016-05-16 03:53:49 UTC
Shakira Akira wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Again. You're not losing SP. You're not earning them. Also you can buy them back. Or could if you didn't lost all that ISK while you didn't play. EVE is such harsh mistress, punishes you for not playing with her.


I spend a lot of time away that I cannot login even if I wanted to. (it's my job, and many in the armed forces that play the game have the same issue) We already are LOSING out for not logging in by missed fights, isk etc. Now with a daily system. we can add SP to that? It's BS.

Even for bitter vets, 1/6th of a days worth of SP EVERY day is a lot. Not to mention even further devalues the point of planning ahead your skill queue as you can just inject whatever skill you want after a couple of days the most. So how exactly is this system supposed to live up to the "hardcore" nature of eve? If you don't need to plan ahead anymore, you don't need to optimize your attributes, and you don't even need to bother with +5s as you can just get that for free by logging in once a day?




So..

You feel like you're losing something ingame because you made IRL choices that affect your ability to play a video game. Right. And now you think that proven methods of getting more people to log in are bad, and I bet you're one of those people who think SP doesn't matter long term (compared to activity).

Maybe I'm wrong? Or maybe you have an entitlement complex.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#2189 - 2016-05-16 06:41:21 UTC
Quote:
Quote:

I like what CCP Ghost said. It was also a herold of something bad incoming. Average player log for 2 hours per day. How to get him entertaing for 2 hours?
I think the proposed feature is not meant to fulfill the quoted requirement. The proposed feature looks like a stab in the dark try to get people to log in just like you get people in a store with door crasher prices. Having us play 2 hours per day is a job with multiple part. Getting us to log in is the first step. It might be stupid to do it with a daily but if you look at the people who will feel forced to log in because of it, the feature sure as hell does the first step of getting us to log in. If they want the majority of the account to log in every day, this is probably the surest way to make it happen. It's probably not viable long term but while it last, you can bet people will log in day in day out to get their line of sp.

Which is why it's even worse. We need a good reason to log in. Like fun game to play. People being pushed to login because they have feel like they losing something is bad mechanism and will burn out players even faster. Why do I need this extra SP if i don't want to use them to play the game anyway? It's a slippery slope. The problem will go even deeper. We need positive reason to login not negative. Unless you want to decrease overall motivation and game reception.

Dantelion Shinoni wrote:

http://crossingzebras.com/dailies-in-eve-a-design-challenge/

Haven't seen a link to this article in the thread so I'm linking it.

It pretty much addresses the ONE point that really bothers people, the fact that you do have to do that task EVERY. FREAKING. DAY. The proposed idea is by far the best take on this issue I have seen.

Make it a cumulative weekly thing and I, and many people with jobs, family, or just a goddam life, will fully support it.

What do you mean by cumulative weekly?
T-Jay Charante wrote:
No, I don't understand the logic of people who rarely play 'feeling punished' about missing out on SP when in fact they are gaining more SP than people that play on a daily basis.
You expect players who play daily to do chores to afford +5's to get equal to your SP gain, yet you complain about a daily chore.

Why do you play first place? If playing to afford +5's is a chore to you I don't think you have fun playing this game. Do you think doing dailiy chore (shoot one rat) will improve your experience? That why everybody want more fun gameplay, not forcing to login to play the game.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Lugh Crow-Slave
#2190 - 2016-05-16 07:03:55 UTC
not to meantion that you can now swap into and out of your plus V clone with no wait time
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2191 - 2016-05-16 09:15:45 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


PCU reaction to Citadel has been a big notorious zero. Server population is at 2008 levels and keeps going down. But CCP thinks that the Rubicon Plan is doing well. And after all they can't just walk away from it at this point. Maybe they could remove teams from a structure set, slow down the whole thing and do something instead for PvE and high sec and solo play and the "85%", but even then, they would need to get it right. And that is unlikely for the little we know about the plans for PvE.


If you go to eveoffline and check the trend (the graphs) for 1 year/5year or All, where do you see evidence that server populations are going down? The trend seems to be a slight increase in player activity in the last half year IMO (Ofc we cannot distinguish between if more player joined, or if players were just logged on longer). With world war bee it is likely that people have been loggin on more, but I have no proof of this. So I am really curious where you get this prognosis from? And it is pretty crucial as the supposed drop in player activity is your main argument in the above for that what CCP is doing is wrong. Yet the server population does not keep going down, as you proclaim.. perhaps they are on a right track afterall?

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2192 - 2016-05-16 09:19:51 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


PCU reaction to Citadel has been a big notorious zero. Server population is at 2008 levels and keeps going down. But CCP thinks that the Rubicon Plan is doing well. And after all they can't just walk away from it at this point. Maybe they could remove teams from a structure set, slow down the whole thing and do something instead for PvE and high sec and solo play and the "85%", but even then, they would need to get it right. And that is unlikely for the little we know about the plans for PvE.


If you go to eveoffline and check the trend (the graphs) for 1 year/5year or All, where do you see evidence that server populations are going down? The trend seems to be a slight increase in player activity in the last half year IMO (Ofc we cannot distinguish between if more player joined, or if players were just logged on longer). With world war bee it is likely that people have been loggin on more, but I have no proof of this. So I am really curious where you get this prognosis from? And it is pretty crucial as the supposed drop in player activity is your main argument in the above for that what CCP is doing is wrong. Yet the server population does not keep going down, as you proclaim.. perhaps they are on a right track afterall?


40k online lastnight during my prime, not seen that in a long time Shocked

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2193 - 2016-05-16 09:20:22 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Jeremiah Saken wrote:

What do you mean by cumulative weekly?


I think with cumulative he means that once a week you need to do 7 actions. You can either do one everyday, divide it over three days or do all seven on one day. The actions accumulate over the week, and are not daily. This would fit better to people who are busy in RL.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#2194 - 2016-05-16 09:40:28 UTC
Quote:
Quote:
What do you mean by cumulative weekly?
I think with cumulative he means that once a week you need to do 7 actions. You can either do one everyday, divide it over three days or do all seven on one day. The actions accumulate over the week, and are not daily. This would fit better to people who are busy in RL.

CCP wants players to log every day, not just sunday. So it would be pointless to do such feature.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#2195 - 2016-05-16 11:27:38 UTC  |  Edited by: T-Jay Charante
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
[quote][quote]

T-Jay Charante wrote:
No, I don't understand the logic of people who rarely play 'feeling punished' about missing out on SP when in fact they are gaining more SP than people that play on a daily basis.
You expect players who play daily to do chores to afford +5's to get equal to your SP gain, yet you complain about a daily chore.

Why do you play first place? If playing to afford +5's is a chore to you I don't think you have fun playing this game. Do you think doing dailiy chore (shoot one rat) will improve your experience? That why everybody want more fun gameplay, not forcing to login to play the game.


Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week.

I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#2196 - 2016-05-16 11:52:55 UTC
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week.

I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish.

Dailies won't solve your SP problem. I'm flying with +5 implants all the time. Most time I scan and explore combat signatures, so I'll get the SP reward bonus anyway. You'll never gonna catch me this way. This is known SP gap issue between PvP and PvEers (assuming you are pvper). Problem is CCP luring players by obvious reward that will become the goal not the tool. SPs are tool, why the hell we need them if our game is not fun (either pvp or pve).

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#2197 - 2016-05-16 12:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: T-Jay Charante
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week.

I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish.

Dailies won't solve your SP problem. I'm flying with +5 implants all the time. Most time I scan and explore combat signatures, so I'll get the SP reward bonus anyway. You'll never gonna catch me this way. This is known SP gap issue between PvP and PvEers (assuming you are pvper). Problem is CCP luring players by obvious reward that will become the goal not the tool. SPs are tool, why the hell we need them if our game is not fun (either pvp or pve).


That is pretty much the argument, the only people that are concerned by this are ones that don't play the game that often. The average person playing daily isn't rolling around in +5's, are not playing Skillpoints Online and therefore will not be religiously running these dailies.

Sure, we'll do it a few times, but to think everyone will be logging in to solely do our daily is pretty naive.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2198 - 2016-05-16 13:18:32 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week.

I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish.

Dailies won't solve your SP problem. I'm flying with +5 implants all the time. Most time I scan and explore combat signatures, so I'll get the SP reward bonus anyway. You'll never gonna catch me this way. This is known SP gap issue between PvP and PvEers (assuming you are pvper). Problem is CCP luring players by obvious reward that will become the goal not the tool. SPs are tool, why the hell we need them if our game is not fun (either pvp or pve).


A lot of people already don't see SP as a tool. Just look at all the crying for free SP every time the server goes down for whatever reason even if our skill queu actually were still going.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#2199 - 2016-05-16 16:07:49 UTC
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week.

I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish.

Dailies won't solve your SP problem. I'm flying with +5 implants all the time. Most time I scan and explore combat signatures, so I'll get the SP reward bonus anyway. You'll never gonna catch me this way. This is known SP gap issue between PvP and PvEers (assuming you are pvper). Problem is CCP luring players by obvious reward that will become the goal not the tool. SPs are tool, why the hell we need them if our game is not fun (either pvp or pve).


That's is pretty much the argument, the only people that are concerned by this are ones that don't play the game that often. The average person playing daily isn't rolling around in +5's, are not playing Skillpoints Online and therefore will not be religiously running these dailies.

Sure, we'll do it a few times, but to think everyone will be logging in to solely do our daily is pretty naive.


If people don't log in to do it, then it is stupid and pointless. CCP is counting on people logging in to do this.

I play the game every day that I can. I also PVP in +5 implants. I don't like the precedent this sets with grinding for SP. I don't like being penalized on the days I cannot log in to the game. One of the fundamental things about Eve is that for years all you had to do to keep your character progressing was to keep subscribing. As someone in the military, that's a major draw. Now CCP appears to be taking major steps away from that model. And for what? For some bullshit ten minute daily logins that create another chore.

I already have enough "daily tasks" in Eve. I am a corporation leader and FC. I also have normal, everyday things I want to do: PVP, PI, industry, exploration, etc. Every login is already like being pecked to death by baby ducks. "I'm bored. Can someone lead a roam?" "Hey, is my Naglfar ready yet?" "Can you light a cyno for me?" "Where is my courier contract now?" "Can you scout for the strat op tonight? I need scouts in HED-GP, PF-346, Obe, and H-PA29." And that's in a drama free corporation/alliance.

CCP has done very little over the years to reduce the tedium of being a corporation/alliance leader. Those people make things happen and help keep others logging in. At this point in Eve, I mostly play for my corpmates. This is thirty minutes to an hour a day (five accounts) that I'll have to spend not generating things for others.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Ember Niagara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2200 - 2016-05-16 16:37:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ember Niagara
CCP, your objective here is simply to get players to undock, right?
(And, presumably, a way to ease the pain for newbies training their core skill sets?)

Instead of a new shopping list of "kill this NPC! fit this thing!" like other MMOGs (which would feel mundane), I propose instead the principle of rewarding players for doing what they already do. Allocate SP based on actions we took during the day.

Method A: "Manual"
  • Every 24h, everyone gets a certain amount of Daily Unallocated SP. Not cumulative - unused Daily Unallocated SP do not carry over to the next day.
  • The game looks at your actions taken during the day and "unlocks" the ability to apply your Daily Unallocated to related skills after you do them. For example, if you turn on your Warp Drive, then you gain the ability to apply the skill points to Warp Drive Operation.
  • At the end of the day, the SP are applied to the skills of your choice.

Method B: "Automatic"
  • Every 24h, everyone gets a certain amount of Daily Unallocated SP. Not cumulative - unused Daily Unallocated SP do not carry over to the next day.
  • The game looks at your actions taken during the day and compiles a list of skills related to what you were doing.
  • At the end of the day, it automatically applies chunks of your Daily Unallocated to those skills you "used." For example, if you turned on your Warp Drive, then you gain SP to Warp Drive Operation.
  • If something is already Level 5, it skips that thing and applies the SP to something else.

Method C: "Semi-Automatic"
  • Same as "B" but only auto-applies the SP to skills that were in your Active Training Queue, which gives you control over what gets the bonus (if you don't want a particular skill to get the 24H bonus SP, pull it out of your skill queue before the end of the day).

IMO these methods above are more "EVE-like" -- they simulate the act of "learning by doing" (like in real life) without risking the "use gun / kill stuff 1000 times to level up" behavior of other MMOGs.