These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[PROPOSAL] Remove the Buddylist/Go Back to Watchlist

First post
Author
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#1 - 2016-05-13 17:50:13 UTC
This is not going to be the expected salty tears of a bittervet , but a series of valid points that took multiple factors into account and an attempt to remain objective:

Mercenaries: These organizations once had entire communities, and on-call channels where you could pay your hard-earned ISK to defend your assets against an overwhelming force, to deny assets/routes/hubs to enemies, or to mercilessly hunt and slaughter your enemies, wherever they were.

Unfortunately, that is not the case today. Today, many of the larger mercenary organizations have become mass-deccing, instalocking, trade-hub/choke point camping F1 monkeys who are half paying attention to their intended targets as they pass through a choke point or undock from a station while they're doing something far more entertaining than just sitting in the same place. Why is that? It is because one of the best tools that they had was ripped away to protect the delicate sensitivities of the supercapital pilots who "never could log on" because "everyone knew where they were" or "everyone knew they were online."

So what we have today is an entire group that has turned into griefing mass-deccers with no better purpose than podding a newbro as he undocks because he didn't know better, or an industrial corp CEO telling people they can't play a game that they pay for, or thousands who now can't go sell their products that they worked hard to obtain/produce/steal, etc, etc, etc.

My proposal is the removal of the "Buddy List" and going back to the old-school Watch List.

The reasoning is simple. Supercapitals can now tether/dock at Citadels (and any alliance which can afford a fleet of supercapitals should be able to afford at least one Citadel to serve as a home station for their supers/and should be able to defend this location).

Am I asking for a nerf to anything? No.

Am I saying a feature need to be absolutely removed? No

What I am asking is that CCP take into account that they created a feature which has created serious ramifications, and have ostracized an entire community of pilots that was once great (as if one merc org had too many running contracts, they would pass it off to another for a finders fee and to ensure that the client received the best services for the ISK provided). I am thinking that some constructive feedback and dialogue between CCP and the playerbase (not just those with large numbers of subscriptions) and the re-evaluation of a "feature" that they have created which is not in the best of interests of the community, the playerbase as a whole (think of how many subscriptions get lost to permadecs from the current "merc" groups). What I am asking for is balance.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2 - 2016-05-14 10:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Bumblefck
Quote:
Am I asking for a nerf to anything?




Well, technically you do want to nerf the Buddy List and the current status quo, so...




Edit: Just saw your post in another thread where you basically told the OP there to 'HTFU and adapt or GTFO'. I think we can safely turn that around back onto you, now.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#3 - 2016-05-14 15:15:52 UTC
It is a shame that your instant, uncounterable, unlimited and perfectly reliable intel source has been removed to the detriment of your old playstyle. I myself would like a shield mod that gives 100% omni resists for when I just want to AFK rat while watching a film - this is to name but one example - so I share something of your sorrow.

As it is, I find myself forced to consider alternative methodologies, some of which - to my dismay and regret, I will not hide or deny - involve effort and risk. At this time I can only suggest that you investigate analogous options to advance your own goals until such time a CCP restores your entitlements.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Valkin Mordirc
#4 - 2016-05-15 02:57:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
It is a shame that your instant, uncounterable, unlimited and perfectly reliable intel source has been removed to the detriment of your old playstyle. I myself would like a shield mod that gives 100% omni resists for when I just want to AFK rat while watching a film - this is to name but one example - so I share something of your sorrow.

As it is, I find myself forced to consider alternative methodologies, some of which - to my dismay and regret, I will not hide or deny - involve effort and risk. At this time I can only suggest that you investigate analogous options to advance your own goals until such time a CCP restores your entitlements.



Most of the people in the Mercenary community don't even want to have the watchlist. They understand why the change was made in the first place.


What we don't like is the blanket solution to a problem that only effect the Nullsec side of the game. The Changes effects more than just Nullsec Cap games. It also hurt Wormhole and Highsec.


I don't really care about the old watchlist, but I do want some way to show me if my War targets are indeed online are not. Giving Cap Pilots Watchlist immunity, or Watchlists not working for those who are in Nullsec would obviously work.
#DeleteTheWeak
Black Pedro
Mine.
#5 - 2016-05-16 09:02:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Malcanis wrote:
It is a shame that your instant, uncounterable, unlimited and perfectly reliable intel source has been removed to the detriment of your old playstyle. I myself would like a shield mod that gives 100% omni resists for when I just want to AFK rat while watching a film - this is to name but one example - so I share something of your sorrow.

As it is, I find myself forced to consider alternative methodologies, some of which - to my dismay and regret, I will not hide or deny - involve effort and risk. At this time I can only suggest that you investigate analogous options to advance your own goals until such time a CCP restores your entitlements.

It does seem a little unbalanced that players can now logout of the game leaving those hunting them no mechanism to determine if they should continue to chase or if they are spinning their wheels. Such a counter to this instant, uncounterable, unlimited and perfectly reliable ability to leave the game universe doesn't have to be instant and free as the watchlist was, but there should be some tool to counter the ability of players to completely and infallibly remove themselves from the game universe without the ability of the other players to find out they are now in an invulnerable state.

I don't think anyone will claim the plight of super pilots didn't need to be addressed in some manner, but the solution has seriously hurt wormhole pilots and bounty hunters/mercenaries stalking specific targets. You can tell them to just 'HTFU' and go infiltrate corps or keep alts logged in 24/7 everywhere but that doesn't change the equation where it is just now too much work to hunt specific targets now that it is more likely than not they will be logged off when you find them. So players have stopped, and will continue to stop doing it.

Less things are going to happen now in the sandbox because of this change. A roll-back isn't going to happen, but some sort of accommodation or new intel channel is necessary if you want hunter-style game play to continue to take place in Eve.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-05-19 20:54:21 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It is a shame that your instant, uncounterable, unlimited and perfectly reliable intel source has been removed to the detriment of your old playstyle. I myself would like a shield mod that gives 100% omni resists for when I just want to AFK rat while watching a film - this is to name but one example - so I share something of your sorrow.

As it is, I find myself forced to consider alternative methodologies, some of which - to my dismay and regret, I will not hide or deny - involve effort and risk. At this time I can only suggest that you investigate analogous options to advance your own goals until such time a CCP restores your entitlements.

It does seem a little unbalanced that players can now logout of the game leaving those hunting them no mechanism to determine if they should continue to chase or if they are spinning their wheels. Such a counter to this instant, uncounterable, unlimited and perfectly reliable ability to leave the game universe doesn't have to be instant and free as the watchlist was, but there should be some tool to counter the ability of players to completely and infallibly remove themselves from the game universe without the ability of the other players to find out they are now in an invulnerable state.

I don't think anyone will claim the plight of super pilots didn't need to be addressed in some manner, but the solution has seriously hurt wormhole pilots and bounty hunters/mercenaries stalking specific targets. You can tell them to just 'HTFU' and go infiltrate corps or keep alts logged in 24/7 everywhere but that doesn't change the equation where it is just now too much work to hunt specific targets now that it is more likely than not they will be logged off when you find them. So players have stopped, and will continue to stop doing it.

Less things are going to happen now in the sandbox because of this change. A roll-back isn't going to happen, but some sort of accommodation or new intel channel is necessary if you want hunter-style game play to continue to take place in Eve.


Locator agent with a 30 second response time and 80% of the ISK back because he just flat out can't find your target.

Timer and ISK back feature to be discussed for balance purpose of course but the agent should tell you rather fast he just flat out can't find any lead to this dude's location.
The Judge
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-05-21 09:31:56 UTC
I feel like the buddy list is overall what was intended for the original mechanic. The watchlist became a gameable intel source and not much more. Locator agents are a different topic, and I would be more than happy to hear your opinions on that (mail me!), but I will have to disagree that we should revert back to the old watchlist. Keep moving foward, never back!

-Judge

CSM XII Member and CSM XI Permanent Attendee

Diplomat for Circle-Of-Two

@_TheJudge on Twitter

thejudge@csm.eve.com

Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#8 - 2016-05-23 16:11:17 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6500320#post6500320

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!