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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Ship Adjustments

Author
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
United Caldari Space Command.
#1 - 2016-05-13 01:28:04 UTC
Cormorant:

The Cormorant is essentially a rail platform that excels at long range combat and engaging at extreme ranges. Furthermore it can do decently well as a close range blaster boat. However - its stats are most suited for engagement ranges between 15/30km to 75-110km.

When this ship was last rebalanced it had one of its medium slots moved to the low slot while maintaining its high slot. At that point the utility high slot serves no practical purpose. A ship engaging at those extreme ranges will never be able to fully use its utility neut or unbonused missile launcher effectively. The viability it might of had when the corm could fit a full complement of tackle (4 mid slots) allowed for that flexibility. In my conjectured opinion I believe the high slot should be moved into a med slot. The cormorant is not in a bad place at the moment, however this is a change that would allow it to come into its own.

Condor:

This ship fulfills its roll relatively well as a quick ship moving in to point a target and provide some supporting dps (lethargic) and E-War compliment. However, this ship suffers from the same ridiculous utility high slot. Although there are some rocket builds that can make use of it - for the most part this slot would be better places into a mid or low slot (most likely low as it already has a lot of meds). Furthermore the nature of its bonus - 10% Kinetic Damage bonus is extremely weak. Missiles are in most situations made to allow flexibility of damage type for the user. To provide options on how to apply DPS most effectively to a target - IE: Making a decision and using knowledge to engage an enemies hole. However, this decision becomes fundamentally much harder when 50% of your dps is instantly lost at max level. I would ask kindly for it to simply apply to all missile damage profiles. This way the condors lethargic damage can atleast be supplemented by knowledgeable players. With the additional low slot the condor can make the decision between fitting for more speed, damage or whatever else.

Rifter:

This is a ship that has a decent slot layout, although slightly awkward. When frigates were rebalanced it was dethroned as king of the frigates - rightly so. I do believe though that this frigate deserves some love. Whether that means providing it will some generous fitting room (allowing it to utilize more options with less penalties) or by increasing its speed / tweaking its bonus slightly. I cannot provide a clear idea as to how to fix this ship - But a few minor tweaks to give it the umph it needs to compete would make a big difference.


TLDR; Condor high slot to low - Cormorant high slot to med - Rifter; add speed, more fitting - or hell add another utility high slot to it with fitting (Punisher treatment).

This is mostly all conjecture from my own experiences. So feel free to grill me on it.


Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2016-05-13 04:18:52 UTC
Don't fly the Rifter so won't convent on that

But the other two are fine abs your changes seem to be based on making it better in the way "you" use it
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
United Caldari Space Command.
#3 - 2016-05-13 04:23:51 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Don't fly the Rifter so won't convent on that

But the other two are fine abs your changes seem to be based on making it better in the way "you" use it


Absolutely. More so basing it around their strengths. They are both still competitive and effective. But for me personally I find those high slots drive me insane.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2016-05-16 00:44:22 UTC
one of the scariest things for kite ships is fast drones that High makes for a good place to put a smart bomb
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2016-05-16 01:16:41 UTC
The corm isn't really meant to fight in the <10km range where full tackle really show it's strength. It's sniper role is really well defined so a change in it's slot layout would make more sense to me in a high -> low move then high -> med.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2016-05-16 01:36:48 UTC
now that is something i would find more viable but i still think it's fine as is
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#7 - 2016-05-16 01:54:42 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
now that is something i would find more viable but i still think it's fine as is


So do I and to be honest, who in world fit 2 long-points, a scram and a web on a shield boat?


The Condor is not an ewar boat. She does tackle at long(er) range and the launchers are, as Lugh said, for shooting drones.

You can say she is a basic Crow also. If you want a swiss army knife, try an Eidolon or a CONDORD Swat Police battleship. I checked last night for prices but they seem sold out What?

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Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
United Caldari Space Command.
#8 - 2016-05-16 05:21:40 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The corm isn't really meant to fight in the <10km range where full tackle really show it's strength. It's sniper role is really well defined so a change in it's slot layout would make more sense to me in a high -> low move then high -> med.


Either a low or med would work. A Cormorant can perform very well as a blaster boat - with two double webs in the mid slots. But either having a an extra low slot for additional damage /tracking enhancement (maybe even speed or dc) would be far more useful then a high. Medium slot would allow for more sensor boosters; tracking computers which would give it flexibility in that regard.

elitatwo wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
now that is something i would find more viable but i still think it's fine as is


So do I and to be honest, who in world fit 2 long-points, a scram and a web on a shield boat?


The Condor is not an ewar boat. She does tackle at long(er) range and the launchers are, as Lugh said, for shooting drones.

You can say she is a basic Crow also. If you want a swiss army knife, try an Eidolon or a CONDORD Swat Police battleship. I checked last night for prices but they seem sold out What?


Typically you would fit an Medium shield extender + Auxilary power core on Caldari ships. Followed by assorted tackle (One warp disruptor for kiting Condor) + Prop mod. E-War is there to supplement its lethargic DPS and increase its survivability. Because it has the extra mid slots it can use them to cripple enemies when swarming. Ie: Sensor dampening certain ships will allow you to perma point them with impunity. Other uses would be a double web + AB and scram for kiting or drop a web for a TD.

The kinetic bonus restriction is ridiculous though - most ships have very high kinetic resists as it stands and the whole purpose of using missiles is so you can use your knowledge to aim at a targets damage hole. Considering its purpose as a mid range (20-30km) missile boat; the value of the high slot is minimal. Lugh Crow-Slave mentioned putting a small smartbomb in that spot, but the viability of that actually having any value in most fights seems low to me. A smart bomb timed wrong could also hypothetically destroy your own missiles (lol).

If you look at pretty much every other Caldari ship barring Hawk and Harpy - Majority do not have utility highs. The strength of Caldari ships in theme come from their ability to utilize E-War in their extra mid slots while engaging at longer ranges. In most situations if you are in range to use a Neut or NOS on a Condor / Corm - you've screwed up. Barring those who do have good fits and brawl with these ships.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#9 - 2016-05-16 19:01:47 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
...If you look at pretty much every other Caldari ship barring Hawk and Harpy - Majority do not have utility highs. The strength of Caldari ships in theme come from their ability to utilize E-War in their extra mid slots while engaging at longer ranges. In most situations if you are in range to use a Neut or NOS on a Condor / Corm - you've screwed up. Barring those who do have good fits and brawl with these ships.


At which point we usually call them Griffin.

I haven't flown destroyers for ages now except for my Confessor but if you would put 7x small ion blaster II and a rocket launcher II in the "spare slot" which also profit from the range bonus, you can scram-kite with null s with a hardened shield tank that would show any opponent, who invented them.

I wish the Moa would have kept the range bonus but thats another story.

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