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Author
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2161 - 2016-05-10 08:08:27 UTC
Matthew en Thielles wrote:
[quote=El Burt]when was the last time you logged in, and played a whole session, and didn't come across a single rat that you could just shoot on your way past?


quite a while as i dont shoot the rats in my area, rp and all that

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2162 - 2016-05-10 12:01:49 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Matthew en Thielles wrote:
[quote=El Burt]when was the last time you logged in, and played a whole session, and didn't come across a single rat that you could just shoot on your way past?


quite a while as i dont shoot the rats in my area, rp and all that


If you decide to roleplay with enough self imposed rules that you miss out on something, that's not CCP's fault. You set those rule yourself.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2163 - 2016-05-10 12:17:38 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Matthew en Thielles wrote:
[quote=El Burt]when was the last time you logged in, and played a whole session, and didn't come across a single rat that you could just shoot on your way past?


quite a while as i dont shoot the rats in my area, rp and all that


If you decide to roleplay with enough self imposed rules that you miss out on something, that's not CCP's fault. You set those rule yourself.


thanks, you just confirmed that my style of play is being penalised by not following what ccp want me to do, even though i login for atleast 3 hours everyday and create my own content and do pvp instead of killing a rat

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Hans Eisenberg
#2164 - 2016-05-10 12:45:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Eisenberg
Lan Wang wrote:
quite a while as i dont shoot the rats in my area, rp and all that


Shocked I'm shocked and delighted that someone else does this.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2165 - 2016-05-10 12:50:03 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Matthew en Thielles wrote:
[quote=El Burt]when was the last time you logged in, and played a whole session, and didn't come across a single rat that you could just shoot on your way past?


quite a while as i dont shoot the rats in my area, rp and all that


If you decide to roleplay with enough self imposed rules that you miss out on something, that's not CCP's fault. You set those rule yourself.


thanks, you just confirmed that my style of play is being penalised by not following what ccp want me to do, even though i login for atleast 3 hours everyday and create my own content and do pvp instead of killing a rat


You are not penalized, you choose to opt out by setting rules for yourself.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2166 - 2016-05-10 13:01:13 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
You are not penalized, you choose to opt out by setting rules for yourself.


lets not call it setting rules as such, its a sandbox that we are suppose to create our own story/content, kind of ruins my story and my own immersion while im flying around shooting the very faction i support just to get 10k sp that ccp encourage me to do, ill say it again, even though i login everyday and roam in space daily.

everyone who doesn't do this mass number budge that ccp want is being penalised, its nothing more than half thoughtout incentive aimed at a certain type of playstyle while ignoring every other playstyle.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2167 - 2016-05-11 22:13:21 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
You are not penalized, you choose to opt out by setting rules for yourself.


lets not call it setting rules as such, its a sandbox that we are suppose to create our own story/content, kind of ruins my story and my own immersion while im flying around shooting the very faction i support just to get 10k sp that ccp encourage me to do, ill say it again, even though i login everyday and roam in space daily.

everyone who doesn't do this mass number budge that ccp want is being penalised, its nothing more than half thoughtout incentive aimed at a certain type of playstyle while ignoring every other playstyle.

Isn't that the case with most of what CCP does?
Changing the way people choose to play the game has been CCP's design focus for several years now.

It has been a wild success - Ganking has never been more prolific (in all parts of space not just highsec), N+1 is the favorite meta and now dedicated RP'rs are being told they play the game the wrong way.

Frostys - How about Devs introduce a daily where shooting a Goon gave you free SP. I know wrong people to ask, Goons don't mind Awoxing, it is part of their play style. But for others shooting a friend, even an npc one, is not something they should be forced to do to satisfy CCP's lack of imagination and poor attempts to boost numbers.

No-one but the bank cares that you can get 10,000 more people to login for 5 minutes a day with "Daily Opportunities" and if your bank manager is smart enough, he too will see it for what it is and pay it no mind.


Turning Eve into a "one play style fits all" is going to see lots of things change - Especially the lifespan of Eve..
Once it is fully, "just another game" it then has a limited life span, just like any other game.

Spin that credit card - And as a bonus we'll give you a couple of worthless, look just like everything else (boring and not really anything to do with Eve) sets of clothes, that aren't worth anything to sell and certainly aren't suitable for a pirate scum bag to wear.


13 years and CCP know less about their game, those who play it and how it is played than they did the week before it was released - And the worst thing is, they don't care......

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2168 - 2016-05-12 02:07:42 UTC
Let's wait for another couple of years and see if this game would turn into p2w grinding boredome or CCPGAMES finally get read of seagull rise and fozzie and couple of more and get back to the roots.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#2169 - 2016-05-12 02:14:14 UTC
Chores have been deleted from the current SiSi build, there might be hope after all.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#2170 - 2016-05-12 14:59:10 UTC
Few links about dailies to get some perspective:

Dailies on fanfest 1

Dailies on fanfest 2

CZ about dailies

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Ellieko Vox
Vox Production Industries
#2171 - 2016-05-12 15:37:36 UTC
You all know how to fix this right? Just simply don't pay for your account until they say they realize it's a f******stupid idea and drop it. This is called 'Vote with your wallet'and if done properly can have amazing results. But if everyone simply thinks of themselves and not the greater good of the future of the game, then nothing will happen because no one will will refuse to drop their account for a few days/weeks.
Start Citizen is going to get a major boost in costumers if this turns into space WoW because someone at CCP started reading Korean forms on how to make a 'Click Candy' phone game and call that research.
This is just like the 2 party system of the US government.... - 'I have a dumb idea' "Lets put skill injectors in the game." -- 'I can make it worse' "Lets take the one thing that drives people away from a game and put in ours! Then we can offer free skill points for it."
Brilliant set of decisions going on here...
Solhild
Doomheim
#2172 - 2016-05-12 17:39:50 UTC
Ellieko Vox wrote:
You all know how to fix this right? Just simply don't pay for your account until they say they realize it's a f******stupid idea and drop it. This is called 'Vote with your wallet'and if done properly can have amazing results. But if everyone simply thinks of themselves and not the greater good of the future of the game, then nothing will happen because no one will will refuse to drop their account for a few days/weeks.
Start Citizen is going to get a major boost in costumers if this turns into space WoW because someone at CCP started reading Korean forms on how to make a 'Click Candy' phone game and call that research.
This is just like the 2 party system of the US government.... - 'I have a dumb idea' "Lets put skill injectors in the game." -- 'I can make it worse' "Lets take the one thing that drives people away from a game and put in ours! Then we can offer free skill points for it."
Brilliant set of decisions going on here...


What's not to like with this post. Spot on.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#2173 - 2016-05-13 07:46:12 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Few links about dailies to get some perspective:

Dailies on fanfest 1

Dailies on fanfest 2

CZ about dailies



Those perspectives are full of crap. If CCP actually made a meaningful game people would log in. From the empire building in 0.0 we have gone to living in low sec NPC stations and then faffing around in 0.0 with sov lasers where permanence of everything is just 1 ship away.

No amount of dailies is going to counteract the drop in player numbers due to removing unique things in EVE and replacing them with crap from Korean F2P games and theme park MMOs. Seagull and fozzie have destroyed everything that was good about this game. Look at what older devs said and did. They wanted people to build homes and empires in 0.0, the idea was that it would be a vibrant and politically complex region not just a ratting/mining while all important things sit in NPC sov/low sec because you have to be pants on head ******** to stage out of a station that a single ship can take.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2174 - 2016-05-13 09:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Oh boy... If i would log on to kill rat for a tiny reward why should i do something else? If that's the whole intent, then i would log on to exactly kill that" SP holy cow" and nothing else since there are things that i've alredy managed to sort out. But if i log on to do many "entertaining" stuf plus got an option to kill that rat for SP that's a different approach. Unfortunatelly i don't have much of things which attract me to log on more often now.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2175 - 2016-05-13 17:07:13 UTC
I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time.

So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest.

Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time.

Here are better ways to get people to log in:

  • Interesting PvE
  • PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example
  • Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like


Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#2176 - 2016-05-13 17:31:58 UTC
Axhind wrote:

Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Few links about dailies to get some perspective:

Dailies on fanfest 1

Dailies on fanfest 2

CZ about dailies



Those perspectives are full of crap. If CCP actually made a meaningful game people would log in. From the empire building in 0.0 we have gone to living in low sec NPC stations and then faffing around in 0.0 with sov lasers where permanence of everything is just 1 ship away.

No amount of dailies is going to counteract the drop in player numbers due to removing unique things in EVE and replacing them with crap from Korean F2P games and theme park MMOs. Seagull and fozzie have destroyed everything that was good about this game. Look at what older devs said and did. They wanted people to build homes and empires in 0.0, the idea was that it would be a vibrant and politically complex region not just a ratting/mining while all important things sit in NPC sov/low sec because you have to be pants on head ******** to stage out of a station that a single ship can take.

I didn't link them because I agree with them. it's good to know what other thought about this "feature". CZ article is interesting. Even Blizzard - the father of all dailies - think they must be changed. It's not, do 100 quests to get 1 mount anymore. CCP don't learn of blizzard mistakes, they want to introduce same cancer it was for so many years in WoW. Boring chore. If it goes online it will be very bad mechnism for new players. 10k SP is not something they can pass on.
I have dangerous reflection about this. After watching some panels from his year fanfest I have a confidence that some devs don't know how to read statistcs data.
I like what CCP Ghost said. It was also a herold of something bad incoming. Average player log for 2 hours per day. How to get him entertaing for 2 hours?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#2177 - 2016-05-13 18:58:28 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time.

So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest.

Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time.

Here are better ways to get people to log in:

  • Interesting PvE
  • PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example
  • Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like


Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day.


I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury.
You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical?
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#2178 - 2016-05-13 19:15:26 UTC
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time.

So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest.

Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time.

Here are better ways to get people to log in:


Interesting PvE
PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example
Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like



Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day.
I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury.
You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical?

So it's Mara Rinn fault that you play longer than her and still can't afford +5 implants? It's sandbox game, at least it was. Don't blame someone else you bad at it.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2179 - 2016-05-13 20:03:01 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:

I like what CCP Ghost said. It was also a herold of something bad incoming. Average player log for 2 hours per day. How to get him entertaing for 2 hours?


I think the proposed feature is not meant to fulfill the quoted requirement. The proposed feature looks like a stab in the dark try to get people to log in just like you get people in a store with door crasher prices. Having us play 2 hours per day is a job with multiple part. Getting us to log in is the first step. It might be stupid to do it with a daily but if you look at the people who will feel forced to log in because of it, the feature sure as hell does the first step of getting us to log in. If they want the majority of the account to log in every day, this is probably the surest way to make it happen. It's probably not viable long term but while it last, you can bet people will log in day in day out to get their line of sp.
T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#2180 - 2016-05-14 03:28:47 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
I am writing this from Singapore, where my tri-annual Fanfest world tour is coming to an end. I have been travelling and out of game due to not being rich enough to travel to Fanfest and be able to afford a gaming laptop at the same time.

So you can imagine my opinion of "daily opportunities". It is basically punishing me to the tune of three or four hours a day of lost skill points, because I decided to attend Fanfest.

Over the course of the six weeks that I am away from a gaming PC, I am being punished 168h of skill training time.

Here are better ways to get people to log in:


Interesting PvE
PvE that rewards group play, Incursions have scout sites for example
Find ways to encourage socially introverted players to connect with groups of people they like



Yeah, that last one is probably a quest for the holy grail. But still a far sight better than punishing people for not logging in and killing an NPC every day.
I'm sure you jumped into a nice clone, with +5 implants before you left to maximize you skill point gain. Meanwhile, people who play on a daily basis don't have this luxury.
You feel punished as you may miss out on 3 or 4 hours training when you don't play the game. How do you feel about the people who lose 3-4 hours training who do play the game every day over ones that log in once or twice a week, do you think this is fair and logical?

So it's Mara Rinn fault that you play longer than her and still can't afford +5 implants? It's sandbox game, at least it was. Don't blame someone else you bad at it.


No, I don't understand the logic of people who rarely play 'feeling punished' about missing out on SP when in fact they are gaining more SP than people that play on a daily basis.
You expect players who play daily to do chores to afford +5's to get equal to your SP gain, yet you complain about a daily chore.