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Assault missile names

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Joanna Brown
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#121 - 2012-01-12 23:12:17 UTC
pls, don't make "Trauma" missiles
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#122 - 2012-01-13 00:56:59 UTC
pls, continue making "Trauma" missiles
TR4D3R4LT
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2012-01-13 14:40:52 UTC
CCP Lemur wrote:
CCP Gnauton is cleaning up lots of item names and reducing unneeded weird names. This should make it easier for people to figure out what does what and which is better in the great pile of meta items...


Just noticed this, why go the half way and not full distance, just change charge names to reflect what they are; "Rocket, EM", Rocket, Therm." "Rocket, Kin", "Rocket, Exp"

"Heavy assault missile, EM", "Heavy assault missile, Therm" etc. Meta/faction/somesuch would easily just added behind the line "Rocket, EM, Caldari Navy." Much easier to type that to search when stockpiling ammo, I could get directly what I want.

Seriously tho, I'm all for unifying things. You could also start to apply this to items, after all we could have "Hardener, EM, Meta 4" etc, nobody could claim they get confused by names anymore. Heck just imagine how smooth talking about them would be;

"Why this change happened?"
"Because Recon ship, Force, Caldari."

and everyone would know exactly what the meme is about.

Signed;
"Troll, TR4D3R4LT"

:P
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#124 - 2012-01-13 14:57:19 UTC
Tea, Earl Grey, Hot

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#125 - 2012-01-13 21:48:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tub Chil
nova missiles? Imroved MWD? what exactly is wrong with y-t? or cold-gas?

CCP what happened every single time when you "fixed" something that was not broken?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#126 - 2012-01-13 21:59:46 UTC
Tub Chil wrote:
nova missiles? Imroved MWD? what exactly is wrong with y-t? or cold-gas?

CCP what happened every single time when you "fixed" something that was not broken?


It's improving the NPE. When newbies search for "microwarpdrive" they really should get all microwarpdrives, not just meta 0 and meta 5. Plus, some things like "Quad LiF Fueled Booster Rockets" don't even make sense. You put four ABs together and you get a MWD? What?

The missile names are in order to be more uniform, same as ammo is. This is terrible for new players:

  • Phased Plasma S - Antimatter Charge S - Multifrequency S - Thorn Rocket / Bloodclaw Light Missile
  • Phased Plasma M - Antimatter Charge M - Multifrequency M - Torrent Assault Missile / Scourge Heavy Missile
  • Phased Plasma L - Antimatter Charge L - Multifrequency L - Juggernaut Torpedo / Wrath Cruise Missile


What's the next size up missile called again? It's not like they even have a "theme" or anything.

Not to mention that Assault Missile Launchers don't fire Assault Missiles. I was quite puzzled by that and completely abandoned missiles for a while as being stupidly overcomplicated when I started out.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#127 - 2012-01-14 04:18:40 UTC
CCP Lemur wrote:

Sure, some people will moan about the loss of the unique names, but it makes no sense to have a new name for the same damage type for each missile type.



Yeah unique names for missiles makes no sense at all.


Quit dumbing down EVE for the incoming DUST console FPS crowd.


P.S. Tacit Rainbow FTW.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#128 - 2012-01-14 20:03:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Kazzzi wrote:
CCP Lemur wrote:

Sure, some people will moan about the loss of the unique names, but it makes no sense to have a new name for the same damage type for each missile type.



Yeah unique names for missiles makes no sense at all.


Quit dumbing down EVE for the incoming DUST console FPS crowd.


P.S. Tacit Rainbow FTW.


Wow that list only contains base models none of the variants like the evolved sea sparrow.

And no this isnt 'dumbing down the game. The amount of water in the pool is still the same they're just sloping the 3ft side to the 24 foot deep side much better.

Dumbing down the game involves removing the water in the pool. For example a dumbing down in eve would be to remove all missile types and sizes and replace them with one missile for all situations and it be perfect regardless who or what you encounter.

I can list several console games who's complexity rivals Eve's easily. PVP in Poke'mon comes to mind.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Aline Kia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#129 - 2012-01-15 00:04:13 UTC
I can appreciate what CCP are trying to achieve here but I'm going to have to disagree.

When I started playing EvE 4 years I really didn't know what I was signing up for. But the depth and breadth of things to do, ship names to learn, weapons systems,, damage types, backstories and the shear SCALE of THESE LITTLE THINGS is what kept me PLAYING. And weirdly enough it's the JOURNEY you make in discovery what the difference between 'scourge' and 'doom' are which is a part of that.

And yes as someone has said earlier there is scale in the names and hey a logic aswell that is there to discover. So you have a moment to go 'I see what the dev did there! Clever.'


But a COMPROMISE is probably the best way forward. Adding a 'damage type' signifier is the most sensible solution, making it easier for newbs to learn but keeping the RP immersive core of the game alive.


If you rename everything to standard names, how will people discover things like my favourite target painter name spells out PWNAGE...
One of many 'I see what the dev did there! Clever.' moments of discovery...
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#130 - 2012-01-15 00:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Love how people complain about loss of difficulty or character in simplifying missile names when we have had basic turret ammo since the start.

Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead S, M, L

What if every size of turret ammo had a unique name.

Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead S, Republic Fleet Tetration Galena M, Republic Fleet Amalgamate Bismuth L
That would be annoying.
Or.
How come a pair of 425mm can fire the same round as a 800mm?
Why isn't there:
Carbonized Lead 125mm
Carbonized Lead 150mm
Carbonized Lead 180mm
Carbonized Lead 200mm
Carbonized Lead 220mm
Carbonized Lead 425mm
Carbonized Lead 650mm
Carbonized Lead 800mm
Used between 9 different turrets, just for projectiles alone...

Seems to me, you have been playing a "dumbed-down" game for a long time now, and you are worried about missile names. Now come back down to reality and worry about a real problem... like, FW or something with an ever so slight bit of importance.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#131 - 2012-01-15 01:23:31 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Tub Chil wrote:
nova missiles? Imroved MWD? what exactly is wrong with y-t? or cold-gas?

CCP what happened every single time when you "fixed" something that was not broken?


It's improving the NPE. When newbies search for "microwarpdrive" they really should get all microwarpdrives, not just meta 0 and meta 5.


yes. lets fix the search than. It should also use metadata, not only the item name.

if you search "battlecruiser" in market you could get all BCs... i mean why not - not really an argument to modify item names IMO.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#132 - 2012-01-15 01:43:08 UTC
Bienator II wrote:

yes. lets fix the search than. It should also use metadata, not only the item name.

if you search "battlecruiser" in market you could get all BCs... i mean why not - not really an argument to modify item names IMO.


Because that's harder Smile. Changing the missile names does not involve any code change. Metadata searching in addition to the item name involves a bunch of careful database code.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#133 - 2012-01-15 02:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Bienator II wrote:

yes. lets fix the search than. It should also use metadata, not only the item name.

if you search "battlecruiser" in market you could get all BCs... i mean why not - not really an argument to modify item names IMO.


Because that's harder Smile. Changing the missile names does not involve any code change. Metadata searching in addition to the item name involves a bunch of careful database code.


its always the question how you want to fix that. Just fix it as quickly as possible or make a step back and try to fix it by improving the whole system and possibly more issues at once. (e.g. what do i actually want to fix?)

i mentioned battlecruiser intentionally. Since all the renaming does not go that far (luckily) to produce caldari-battlecruiser-tier3 Strings for search optimization :)


In my opinion a string and a icon is not enough for an item. The faction and t2/3 symbols where a step in the right direction.. we need more of this. More, abstract icons, possibly color coded (e.g. laser redish, hybrids bluish... same for ammo). Get rid of the art design which remembers me on fallout 1 graphics.

A shipclass symbol on the ships... and so forth.

IMO rendering the turrets in incarna was actually a step in the right direction, however it didn't work.. they where not abstract enough -> to detailed (flat shading, orthographic side view, color coding without texture could have solved it).

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
CobaltSixty
Fawkes' Loyal Professionals
#134 - 2012-01-15 08:23:37 UTC  |  Edited by: CobaltSixty
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
It's improving the NPE. When newbies search for "microwarpdrive" they really should get all microwarpdrives, not just meta 0 and meta 5. Plus, some things like "Quad LiF Fueled Booster Rockets" don't even make sense. You put four ABs together and you get a MWD? What?

The Quad LiF thing has always irked me as well. Surely the names could do with some revisions to aid with searching but oversimplifying the names and removing the neat "extras" isn't the way. Realistically, the only problem with speed mods are the meta 2, 3 and 6 units which don't always have their module class in the name. With 10 simple name changes, searching for "xMN afterburner" or "xMN microwarpdrive" yields all relevant versions.

Afterburners
  • Monopropellant Hydrazine Boosters > Monopropellant Hydrazine 1MN Afterburner
  • Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters > Cold-Gas Arcjet 1MN Afterburner
  • Y-S8 Hydrocarbon Afterburners > Y-S8 Hydrocarbon 10MN Afterburner
  • LiF Fueled Booster Rockets > LiF Fueled 100MN Afterburner
  • 1MN Analog Booster Rockets > Analog Boosted 1MN Afterburner (same for 10MN and 100MN)

    • Microwarpdrives
  • Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters > Phased Monopropellant 1MN Microwarpdrive
  • Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters > Catalyzed Cold-Gas 1MN Microwarpdrive
  • Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive > Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon 10MN Microwarpdrive
  • Quad LiF Fueled Booster Rockets > Enriched LiF Fueled 100MN Microwarpdrive
  • 1MN Digital Booster Rockets > Digital Boosted 1MN Microwarpdrive (same for 10MN and 100MN)


Petrus Blackshell wrote:
The missile names are in order to be more uniform, same as ammo is. (...)
Not to mention that Assault Missile Launchers don't fire Assault Missiles. I was quite puzzled by that and completely abandoned missiles for a while as being stupidly overcomplicated when I started out.

While I agree assault missiles are an oddity to be fixed (I always thought they would cause somewhat less confusion as Light Torpedoes/Light Siege Launchers), compressing the lineup to such a limited set of arbitrary names as proposed is only going to complicate searches further. Presently if you search a turret ammo type like "phased plasma", you are presented with the small, medium, large and x-large versions (4), their blueprints (another 4), as well as any faction versions of that type (12), so max 20 results. If you were to search "trauma" (yuck) in the new system, you would get (8) blueprints, (6) rockets, (6) light missiles, (6) assault missiles, (6) heavy missiles, (6) torpedoes, (6) cruise missiles, (2) citadel torpedoes and (2) citadel cruise missiles. This yields 48(!!!) results instead of the current 7 for "thorn".

It can't be to make it easier to memorize because T2 turret ammo nomenclature has nothing to do with the ammo it's based on while missiles always keep the original name. Should Spike S become Plutonium-but-far-away S? No. Launchers and turrets give the names of the ammo types they're compatible with in their description, and it's up to the pilot to check the stat differences amongst those types. Either leave it alone or at least use a bigger pool of names - a minimum of 8 like in my post at the top of page 5 which should return a more reasonable 24 results.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#135 - 2012-01-15 21:31:47 UTC
I agree with smart search its quite doable (it already works in some ways) that when i type in battlecruiser I should get all 25 results. (book inlcluded)

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#136 - 2012-01-16 00:26:40 UTC
bane.. come back bane.. Sad
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#137 - 2012-01-17 13:32:46 UTC
This thread is awash with Drake- and Tengu-flavoured tears Twisted

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#138 - 2012-01-18 15:11:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Denmark
I agree with this change, however many of the missile names are chosen in a poor manner...
I like names like Thunderbolt and Inferno more than the currently suggested names.

Also with missiles won't it be rather complicated naming with at least 23 variants of missiles for each damage type?

The work done with afterburners and microwardrives are very nice and will be a gift for new players.

Pinky
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#139 - 2012-01-18 15:33:45 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
I agree with smart search its quite doable (it already works in some ways) that when i type in battlecruiser I should get all 25 results. (book inlcluded)


The problem is that we don't have a smart search - and the one example of the smart search that we do have (the asset search window) is not documented in-game so nobody knows how to use it. There's no tooltip explaining what search keywords to use or help button by that particular field, so it's a very opaque feature to 95% of the players.

Which is why ammo names need to have the damage class (the/kin/exp/emp) along with a flavor name 'Bane' / 'Scourge' / 'Inferno' which can be used to quickly pull up a list of that type.

There's no reason to do away with the old flavor names. Just tack the new "damage type" identifiers onto the front or back of the existing names.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#140 - 2012-01-18 17:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal