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Pirate Anomalies: A simple but effective idea
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Kenji Noguchi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-05-09 15:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenji Noguchi
Current problems of anomalies:
  • Can be done semi-AFK. Huge profit for almost null effort.
  • Discourage teamwork and collaboration (If you don't understand this point, warp to an anomaly already being cleared by another pilot. You will see)
  • Static nature. They're always the same, with the same ships appearing after the activation of the same triggers.
  • Even the hardest ones can be fully tanked in a variety of ways.

    • What I'll be proposing will fix all of this. Specifically:
  • Impossible to AFK for more than a few minutes.
  • Encourage participation as many pilots as possible. You can make this a fun corp activity, and every pilot will be welcome even if you planned doing the anomaly solo.
  • Dynamic nature. Spawns adapt to player ship composition.
  • Nobody will ever be able to tank them forever.

    • The idea is based on a simple point. Anoms will be "unwinnable". You will never, ever be able to clear all the rats on it. Far from it, if you stay long enough, you will die.

    The idea would work as follows:
    When you warp to an anomaly, the rats would immediatley call for reinforcements and start a timer.

    Whatever the player does, at the end of that timer a new wave of rats warps in, even if the previous wave has not been cleared. And a new timer starts. Next wave will warp in a few more ships than the first.

    To prevent potentially permanent tanking, "Infinite" situations, every wave will adapt depeding on the situation: If the rats frequently miss the player, the waves would include smaller, faster ships. If the rats consistently hit the player, they would bring larger, more powerful ships. But always greater in number than the previous wave. Also, if the last player leaves the area, the anomaly despawns.

    Every X minutes you run into the possibility of an escalation, a Faction spawn, or even an officer after long enough. This will encourage players to try to last as long as possible, for which multiple players working together will be a must.

    No matter the setup, nobody will ever be able to AFK this kind of anom, as damage will be ever-increasing. And if you speed-tank, waves will include so many tacklers and fast frigates that you will end up dying anyway.

    I don't see this being hard to implement: Some timers, and a loop with a simple algorithm to generate the composition of the next wave. And the benefits areclear. It would refresh combat anomalies as a feature and put it up to 2016 standards of quality, while solving all the other problems the feature currently has.
    joecuster
    Anime Masters
    #2 - 2016-05-09 15:41:36 UTC
    Go back to wow
    Rivr Luzade
    Coreli Corporation
    Pandemic Legion
    #3 - 2016-05-09 15:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
    joecuster wrote:
    Go back to wow

    While I would technically agree with that sentiment, I am also in favor of some variety for the anomalies. Like with the current spawn mechanics of the capital NPCs, there could be a chance for this kind of in-anomaly escalation that makes the anomaly go into berserk mode because it was a more important than normal outpost or pirate Haven.
    From a personal standpoint, I would not want every anomaly to be of this type. For one, I like my imba casual Rattlesnake ratting every now and then and secondly, basically nothing would change: instead of completing a Haven after the standard waves with their standard ships, it would then turn into a standard MJDing around to spread the rats around and snipe as many of them off the field as possible before the next MJD or eventual warp-out. However, as with the capital NPCs, which introduce an element of surprise into your ratting monotony, an occasional different Haven or Sanctum would be something I would very much welcome.

    UI Improvement Collective

    My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
    Kenji Noguchi
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #4 - 2016-05-09 16:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenji Noguchi
    Rivr Luzade wrote:
    joecuster wrote:
    Go back to wow

    While I would technically agree with that sentiment, I am also in favor of some variety for the anomalies. Like with the current spawn mechanics of the capital NPCs, there could be a chance for this kind of in-anomaly escalation that makes the anomaly go into berserk mode because it was a more important than normal outpost or pirate Haven.
    From a personal standpoint, I would not want every anomaly to be of this type. For one, I like my imba casual Rattlesnake ratting every now and then and secondly, basically nothing would change: instead of completing a Haven after the standard waves with their standard ships, it would then turn into a standard MJDing around to spread the rats around and snipe as many of them off the field as possible before the next MJD or eventual warp-out. However, as with the capital NPCs, which introduce an element of surprise into your ratting monotony, an occasional different Haven or Sanctum would be something I would very much welcome.


    It would not change anything for you in your Rattlesnake and your active playsttyle. But it would mean an end for AFK ratting. Me, like you, also enjoy a Rattlesnake killing frenzy from time to time Blink But I've also tried AFK ratting and profitted a lot from it: However I can't see it as healthy for the game and the economy in any way.

    Even if this is added to the current anomalies instead of replacing them, as you suggest, it would bring variety and add a challenging (and potentially dangerous) PvE activity that can also become a fun group activity.
    joecuster
    Anime Masters
    #5 - 2016-05-09 16:24:23 UTC
    Death to all care bears
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #6 - 2016-05-09 17:07:18 UTC
    yeah this is not exploitable Roll

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #7 - 2016-05-09 17:54:21 UTC
    Kenji Noguchi wrote:
    Rivr Luzade wrote:
    joecuster wrote:
    Go back to wow

    While I would technically agree with that sentiment, I am also in favor of some variety for the anomalies. Like with the current spawn mechanics of the capital NPCs, there could be a chance for this kind of in-anomaly escalation that makes the anomaly go into berserk mode because it was a more important than normal outpost or pirate Haven.
    From a personal standpoint, I would not want every anomaly to be of this type. For one, I like my imba casual Rattlesnake ratting every now and then and secondly, basically nothing would change: instead of completing a Haven after the standard waves with their standard ships, it would then turn into a standard MJDing around to spread the rats around and snipe as many of them off the field as possible before the next MJD or eventual warp-out. However, as with the capital NPCs, which introduce an element of surprise into your ratting monotony, an occasional different Haven or Sanctum would be something I would very much welcome.


    It would not change anything for you in your Rattlesnake and your active playsttyle. But it would mean an end for AFK ratting. Me, like you, also enjoy a Rattlesnake killing frenzy from time to time Blink But I've also tried AFK ratting and profitted a lot from it: However I can't see it as healthy for the game and the economy in any way.

    Even if this is added to the current anomalies instead of replacing them, as you suggest, it would bring variety and add a challenging (and potentially dangerous) PvE activity that can also become a fun group activity.


    CCP does not want to remove afk ratting. The very simple clear proof of this is how drone still auto-aggro. If they want to remove the afk ratting, there is nothing else that need to be done since ratter would have to order drones to attack each single target which can't be done afk.
    Tabyll Altol
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #8 - 2016-05-10 06:34:02 UTC
    Kenji Noguchi wrote:
    Current problems of anomalies:
  • Can be done semi-AFK. Huge profit for almost null effort.
  • Discourage teamwork and collaboration (If you don't understand this point, warp to an anomaly already being cleared by another pilot. You will see)
  • Static nature. They're always the same, with the same ships appearing after the activation of the same triggers.
  • Even the hardest ones can be fully tanked in a variety of ways.

    • What I'll be proposing will fix all of this. Specifically:
  • Impossible to AFK for more than a few minutes.
  • Encourage participation as many pilots as possible. You can make this a fun corp activity, and every pilot will be welcome even if you planned doing the anomaly solo.
  • Dynamic nature. Spawns adapt to player ship composition.
  • Nobody will ever be able to tank them forever.

    • The idea is based on a simple point. Anoms will be "unwinnable". You will never, ever be able to clear all the rats on it. Far from it, if you stay long enough, you will die.

    The idea would work as follows:
    When you warp to an anomaly, the rats would immediatley call for reinforcements and start a timer.

    Whatever the player does, at the end of that timer a new wave of rats warps in, even if the previous wave has not been cleared. And a new timer starts. Next wave will warp in a few more ships than the first.

    To prevent potentially permanent tanking, "Infinite" situations, every wave will adapt depeding on the situation: If the rats frequently miss the player, the waves would include smaller, faster ships. If the rats consistently hit the player, they would bring larger, more powerful ships. But always greater in number than the previous wave. Also, if the last player leaves the area, the anomaly despawns.

    Every X minutes you run into the possibility of an escalation, a Faction spawn, or even an officer after long enough. This will encourage players to try to last as long as possible, for which multiple players working together will be a must.

    No matter the setup, nobody will ever be able to AFK this kind of anom, as damage will be ever-increasing. And if you speed-tank, waves will include so many tacklers and fast frigates that you will end up dying anyway.

    I don't see this being hard to implement: Some timers, and a loop with a simple algorithm to generate the composition of the next wave. And the benefits areclear. It would refresh combat anomalies as a feature and put it up to 2016 standards of quality, while solving all the other problems the feature currently has.


    So if i warp there with 20 Dread and 20 support for frigs, the anomaly will continue to drop more and more dreads/supers/titans on the fleet to destroy it. So first wave would be like 1 Dread, second 2 Dreads ... .
    I can´t see a possible way to abuse this one. No i mean really go and add it and watch the Bounty income tripple in just one month Twisted
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #9 - 2016-05-10 11:39:06 UTC
    Tabyll Altol wrote:
    Kenji Noguchi wrote:
    Current problems of anomalies:
  • Can be done semi-AFK. Huge profit for almost null effort.
  • Discourage teamwork and collaboration (If you don't understand this point, warp to an anomaly already being cleared by another pilot. You will see)
  • Static nature. They're always the same, with the same ships appearing after the activation of the same triggers.
  • Even the hardest ones can be fully tanked in a variety of ways.

    • What I'll be proposing will fix all of this. Specifically:
  • Impossible to AFK for more than a few minutes.
  • Encourage participation as many pilots as possible. You can make this a fun corp activity, and every pilot will be welcome even if you planned doing the anomaly solo.
  • Dynamic nature. Spawns adapt to player ship composition.
  • Nobody will ever be able to tank them forever.

    • The idea is based on a simple point. Anoms will be "unwinnable". You will never, ever be able to clear all the rats on it. Far from it, if you stay long enough, you will die.

    The idea would work as follows:
    When you warp to an anomaly, the rats would immediatley call for reinforcements and start a timer.

    Whatever the player does, at the end of that timer a new wave of rats warps in, even if the previous wave has not been cleared. And a new timer starts. Next wave will warp in a few more ships than the first.

    To prevent potentially permanent tanking, "Infinite" situations, every wave will adapt depeding on the situation: If the rats frequently miss the player, the waves would include smaller, faster ships. If the rats consistently hit the player, they would bring larger, more powerful ships. But always greater in number than the previous wave. Also, if the last player leaves the area, the anomaly despawns.

    Every X minutes you run into the possibility of an escalation, a Faction spawn, or even an officer after long enough. This will encourage players to try to last as long as possible, for which multiple players working together will be a must.

    No matter the setup, nobody will ever be able to AFK this kind of anom, as damage will be ever-increasing. And if you speed-tank, waves will include so many tacklers and fast frigates that you will end up dying anyway.

    I don't see this being hard to implement: Some timers, and a loop with a simple algorithm to generate the composition of the next wave. And the benefits areclear. It would refresh combat anomalies as a feature and put it up to 2016 standards of quality, while solving all the other problems the feature currently has.


    So if i warp there with 20 Dread and 20 support for frigs, the anomaly will continue to drop more and more dreads/supers/titans on the fleet to destroy it. So first wave would be like 1 Dread, second 2 Dreads ... .
    I can´t see a possible way to abuse this one. No i mean really go and add it and watch the Bounty income tripple in just one month Twisted


    They could always have strong trigger for the spawn and drop 60+ dreads on you and kill your 20...
    FireFrenzy
    Cynosural Samurai
    #10 - 2016-05-10 12:19:14 UTC
    yeah sure because that wouldnt lead to all kinds of cynos going live...

    Especially when those dreads get utility highs:) Granted that would be a sweet fight...
    Donnachadh
    United Allegiance of Undesirables
    #11 - 2016-05-10 12:27:24 UTC
    -1 for one single reason.
    In a game of alts there is nothing CCP can do to PvE content that will FORCE players to run it in groups.
    Your idea simply means more alts assisting their drones, fighters, bombers to a primary ship and the increasing waves will simply raise the bounty income to insane levels making the faction / officer drops worthless.

    As noted above, no your idea will not get rid of the AFK aspect of anoms, missions etc because of the assist mode for drones etc.
    Kenji Noguchi
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #12 - 2016-05-10 14:27:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenji Noguchi
    Donnachadh wrote:
    -1 for one single reason.
    In a game of alts there is nothing CCP can do to PvE content that will FORCE players to run it in groups.
    Your idea simply means more alts assisting their drones, fighters, bombers to a primary ship and the increasing waves will simply raise the bounty income to insane levels making the faction / officer drops worthless.

    As noted above, no your idea will not get rid of the AFK aspect of anoms, missions etc because of the assist mode for drones etc.


    Please, read the OP carefuly. You can only perma-tank small, manageable waves. That's what you have in the current system. You cannot tank potentially infinite waves.

    About the devaluation of lot, that's tuneable. Make it so elites can only spawn from the minute 40 onwards. Good luck tanking that with less than 10 pilots in your fleet. Currently these 10 pilots are out clearing 20 anoms in that same time.
    Kenji Noguchi
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #13 - 2016-05-10 14:34:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenji Noguchi
    Tabyll Altol wrote:
    Kenji Noguchi wrote:
    Current problems of anomalies:
  • Can be done semi-AFK. Huge profit for almost null effort.
  • Discourage teamwork and collaboration (If you don't understand this point, warp to an anomaly already being cleared by another pilot. You will see)
  • Static nature. They're always the same, with the same ships appearing after the activation of the same triggers.
  • Even the hardest ones can be fully tanked in a variety of ways.

    • What I'll be proposing will fix all of this. Specifically:
  • Impossible to AFK for more than a few minutes.
  • Encourage participation as many pilots as possible. You can make this a fun corp activity, and every pilot will be welcome even if you planned doing the anomaly solo.
  • Dynamic nature. Spawns adapt to player ship composition.
  • Nobody will ever be able to tank them forever.

    • The idea is based on a simple point. Anoms will be "unwinnable". You will never, ever be able to clear all the rats on it. Far from it, if you stay long enough, you will die.

    The idea would work as follows:
    When you warp to an anomaly, the rats would immediatley call for reinforcements and start a timer.

    Whatever the player does, at the end of that timer a new wave of rats warps in, even if the previous wave has not been cleared. And a new timer starts. Next wave will warp in a few more ships than the first.

    To prevent potentially permanent tanking, "Infinite" situations, every wave will adapt depeding on the situation: If the rats frequently miss the player, the waves would include smaller, faster ships. If the rats consistently hit the player, they would bring larger, more powerful ships. But always greater in number than the previous wave. Also, if the last player leaves the area, the anomaly despawns.

    Every X minutes you run into the possibility of an escalation, a Faction spawn, or even an officer after long enough. This will encourage players to try to last as long as possible, for which multiple players working together will be a must.

    No matter the setup, nobody will ever be able to AFK this kind of anom, as damage will be ever-increasing. And if you speed-tank, waves will include so many tacklers and fast frigates that you will end up dying anyway.

    I don't see this being hard to implement: Some timers, and a loop with a simple algorithm to generate the composition of the next wave. And the benefits areclear. It would refresh combat anomalies as a feature and put it up to 2016 standards of quality, while solving all the other problems the feature currently has.


    So if i warp there with 20 Dread and 20 support for frigs, the anomaly will continue to drop more and more dreads/supers/titans on the fleet to destroy it. So first wave would be like 1 Dread, second 2 Dreads ... .
    I can´t see a possible way to abuse this one. No i mean really go and add it and watch the Bounty income tripple in just one month Twisted


    Yeah, and dividing all that bounty by 20 in your example, compared to 20 pilots each doing 3 or 4 anoms in that time with the current system. Not much more profitable if you think it, probably less, even.

    And that's assuming no losses at all.

    And nobody hotdropping you, too.

    Please, go ahead and do that. What could possibly go wrong?
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #14 - 2016-05-10 15:06:47 UTC
    I can't remember the last time I got hot dropped rating I have intel channels that teach out over 20 jumps

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Brokk Witgenstein
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #15 - 2016-05-10 15:39:42 UTC
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
    I can't remember the last time I got hot dropped rating I have intel channels that teach out over 20 jumps


    Just pitching in to mention Cannot light cynoes in a complex. Couple this with a MJD Rattlesnake and you can safely get rid of your intel channels.
    Rivr Luzade
    Coreli Corporation
    Pandemic Legion
    #16 - 2016-05-10 16:14:06 UTC
    Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
    I can't remember the last time I got hot dropped rating I have intel channels that teach out over 20 jumps

    You did not, tons of other people get regularly hotdropped. Sometimes, because they are too slow, other times because their space is being permanently camped.

    UI Improvement Collective

    My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
    elitatwo
    Zansha Expansion
    #17 - 2016-05-11 02:37:54 UTC
    Rivr Luzade wrote:
    joecuster wrote:
    Go back to wow

    While I would technically agree with that sentiment, I am also in favor of some variety for the anomalies. Like with the current spawn mechanics of the capital NPCs, there could be a chance for this kind of in-anomaly escalation that makes the anomaly go into berserk mode because it was a more important than normal outpost or pirate Haven.
    From a personal standpoint, I would not want every anomaly to be of this type. For one, I like my imba casual Rattlesnake ratting every now and then and secondly, basically nothing would change: instead of completing a Haven after the standard waves with their standard ships, it would then turn into a standard MJDing around to spread the rats around and snipe as many of them off the field as possible before the next MJD or eventual warp-out. However, as with the capital NPCs, which introduce an element of surprise into your ratting monotony, an occasional different Haven or Sanctum would be something I would very much welcome.


    Like a Forlon / Forsaken Heaven / Sanctum with Dread Gurista / True Sansha / Dark Blood / Serpentis / angel / Mordus capitals appearing and giving you an uncalm feeling?

    Hell yeah!

    Eve Minions is recruiting.

    This is the law of ship progression!

    Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
    Serendipity Lost
    Repo Industries
    #18 - 2016-05-11 12:12:28 UTC
    Upgrade the anoms UI and give null rats more capability. Right now the only capability of null anom rats is to die poorly in large numbers. How often do you hear of NPC rats actually taking out a ratter? It just doesn't happen.

    The higher level anoms should have rats that web and scram you. There should be some commitment by the player warping into a high level anom. Nothing says commitment like being pointed and webbed to 5 m/s (like in sleeper anoms). Have the npc fight what's hurting them - again the sleeper UI is notorious for chewing through drones. And finally (and this is the one that's going to make you freak) get rid of local. Seriously. WH space doesn't have local AND it doesn't have AFK ratters/botters.... Coincidence??? I think not.
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #19 - 2016-05-11 12:38:21 UTC
    Serendipity Lost wrote:
    Upgrade the anoms UI and give null rats more capability. Right now the only capability of null anom rats is to die poorly in large numbers. How often do you hear of NPC rats actually taking out a ratter? It just doesn't happen.

    The higher level anoms should have rats that web and scram you. There should be some commitment by the player warping into a high level anom. Nothing says commitment like being pointed and webbed to 5 m/s (like in sleeper anoms). Have the npc fight what's hurting them - again the sleeper UI is notorious for chewing through drones. And finally (and this is the one that's going to make you freak) get rid of local. Seriously. WH space doesn't have local AND it doesn't have AFK ratters/botters.... Coincidence??? I think not.



    Anoms in null already have rats that point and web you. The fits people use are designed with this in mind. Making all anoms like sleeper anoms in WH would result in no newbie ever being able to do any ratting by themselves since they can't fit a ship that will sustain the damage once their ship is ground down to a halt. DO you want to chase new player away from null because they can't finance themselves at all?

    The AI (not UI seriously...) is also not really working correctly since it's behavior can change for no apparent reason. As I said before, the rats will sometime go on a killing spree on drones and the "solution" most people will take is just move to a different system where they can resume what they are usually doing. Why does it stays in that state is anyone's guess.

    Why would you remove the difference between null and WH space when you can solve the afk ratting issue (if it really is one since CCP does not seem to care much) by just making the afk ratting weapon system no longer work afk? Then you don't have to make a large change which would affect everyone in null but only affect people using afk ratting? If you disable drone auto aggro, the longest time you can spend afk while making money out of rats is about 5 minutes. which is the cycle time of a full cruise launcher using auto-targeting missiles. It's still 5 minutes but no more full anoms clears like afk drones can pull off.
    Daichi Yamato
    Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
    #20 - 2016-05-11 16:20:02 UTC
    Unlimited sites just means more rewards for less effort. The problems you identify are the problems with npc's rather than the sites. Fixing the nature of npc's is my preference.

    One idea i like though is npc spawns trying to adapt to the capsuleers ship.

    EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

    Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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