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trade Hubs suck now time to make new ones
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Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#21 - 2016-05-08 05:14:22 UTC
Tam Arai wrote:
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
Tam Arai wrote:
if taxes increase by 5%, surely you increase your prices 5% and profit remains the same

also, a larger spread on buy/sell prices to account for larger fees


Producers wont have a lot of the costs that traders do, so some of them may be able to undercut traders. I doubt that it'll be a large percent of the market, but producers (ratters, miners, etc.) will have a measurable advantage when it comes to pricing. Will give mining corps a nice advantage (assuming they can source enough).


that seems fair enough to me. miners/ manufacturers are actually doing and creating something and running a large manufacturing concern is quite difficult and time consuming. a small advantage over those just flipping products feels ok


Maybe, but without dedicated traders then a ton (if not the majority) of mission runners, ratters, and general PVEers would have to become traders on the side. The benefit of having dedicated traders is that they give you the choice to flip your item now for a slightly smaller amount of isk, as opposed to having to babysit your order to get your isk.

Industrialists also aren't able to fill a remote market nearly as well as a trader can, simply because of constraints on how much you can produce at a time.
violator2k5
Crescent Nova
#22 - 2016-05-08 06:27:17 UTC
Tam Arai wrote:
if taxes increase by 5%, surely you increase your prices 5% and profit remains the same

also, a larger spread on buy/sell prices to account for larger fees

not everyone gets that as you can see with how slowly the prices are adjusting in jita at the moment.
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#23 - 2016-05-08 08:14:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
I will post my regionwide buy orders from Citadels, but that's the limit of the changes. Of course I'll have to suck up the broker fees wherever stock lands.

Also, I will be selling low margin items like PLEX via private contracts wherever possible.


Brokers fees are paid when you set up the order, not when you actually buy the item.

If not and area wide orders appear in citadels the owner can suck your wallet dry in no time.
Look top buy order, sell 1 item to it, check that he is no friend, set broker fee to 500%, sell to the order.
It don't matter if your order is a at low price, if the citadel owner can change the broker fee after you have set it up he can suck money from your wallet with extreme ease.

You pay taxes when you complete the order, but those are the same in all stations and citadels.


violator2k5 wrote:
Tam Arai wrote:
if taxes increase by 5%, surely you increase your prices 5% and profit remains the same

also, a larger spread on buy/sell prices to account for larger fees

not everyone gets that as you can see with how slowly the prices are adjusting in jita at the moment.



Long lasting orders and people not updating them.
Before citadels I placed mine with my guesstimates for the new prices after patch. We will see if people adapt to the new prices.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#24 - 2016-05-08 13:00:04 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
I will post my regionwide buy orders from Citadels, but that's the limit of the changes. Of course I'll have to suck up the broker fees wherever stock lands.

Also, I will be selling low margin items like PLEX via private contracts wherever possible.


Brokers fees are paid when you set up the order, not when you actually buy the item.

If not and area wide orders appear in citadels the owner can suck your wallet dry in no time.
Look top buy order, sell 1 item to it, check that he is no friend, set broker fee to 500%, sell to the order.
It don't matter if your order is a at low price, if the citadel owner can change the broker fee after you have set it up he can suck money from your wallet with extreme ease.

You pay taxes when you complete the order, but those are the same in all stations and citadels.



You have already paid the broker fee in this situation. It is billed on order creation, not order filling.

Step 1: I check the broker fee at your citadel (assuming it is in Pucherie, in Sinq Laison), find it is 1% and consider this acceptable

Step 2: I set up a regionwide buy order for 8 PLEX in Sinq Laison, and put ~24% into escrow (Margin Trading 5)

Step 3: You jack up the broker fee to 80%

Step 4: Someone in Dodixie sells 4 PLEX to my order. They pay sales tax as normal

Step 5: I resell them in place.


Only real drawback is if you sell 4 PLEX to me in your citadel, then jack up the fee, and I then have to haul the PLEX to a station to profitably sell them.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#25 - 2016-05-08 13:27:58 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
I will post my regionwide buy orders from Citadels, but that's the limit of the changes. Of course I'll have to suck up the broker fees wherever stock lands.

Also, I will be selling low margin items like PLEX via private contracts wherever possible.


Brokers fees are paid when you set up the order, not when you actually buy the item.

If not and area wide orders appear in citadels the owner can suck your wallet dry in no time.
Look top buy order, sell 1 item to it, check that he is no friend, set broker fee to 500%, sell to the order.
It don't matter if your order is a at low price, if the citadel owner can change the broker fee after you have set it up he can suck money from your wallet with extreme ease.

You pay taxes when you complete the order, but those are the same in all stations and citadels.



You have already paid the broker fee in this situation. It is billed on order creation, not order filling.

Step 1: I check the broker fee at your citadel (assuming it is in Pucherie, in Sinq Laison), find it is 1% and consider this acceptable

Step 2: I set up a regionwide buy order for 8 PLEX in Sinq Laison, and put ~24% into escrow (Margin Trading 5)

Step 3: You jack up the broker fee to 80%

Step 4: Someone in Dodixie sells 4 PLEX to my order. They pay sales tax as normal

Step 5: I resell them in place.


Only real drawback is if you sell 4 PLEX to me in your citadel, then jack up the fee, and I then have to haul the PLEX to a station to profitably sell them.


The other problem is if the citadel goes into 2nd RF the market goes offline

So, you will either have to cancel your orders, or wait 6d until it goes into hull, and hope it either gets repaired, or explodes. If it explodes, your order is cancelled. (if you cancel manually, or it explodes, you lose the broker fee ofc)

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#26 - 2016-05-08 18:06:37 UTC
You'd also have to worry about getting locked out of the citadel. Though I'd imagine you wouldn't put an order there in the first place if that was a likely scenario.

So do region wide buy orders affect citadels? Like if you set up a buy order in one citadel, will I see it and be able to fill it in the next citadel over? I'm sure this has been answered before, just can't seem to find it right now.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#27 - 2016-05-08 18:57:24 UTC
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
You'd also have to worry about getting locked out of the citadel. Though I'd imagine you wouldn't put an order there in the first place if that was a likely scenario.

So do region wide buy orders affect citadels? Like if you set up a buy order in one citadel, will I see it and be able to fill it in the next citadel over? I'm sure this has been answered before, just can't seem to find it right now.


Yes if it is a ranged buy.

Be aware though, if you are locked out of a citadel, your buy order is still active within the citadel, even though its not visible outside of it.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#28 - 2016-05-08 18:59:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
You'd also have to worry about getting locked out of the citadel. Though I'd imagine you wouldn't put an order there in the first place if that was a likely scenario.

So do region wide buy orders affect citadels? Like if you set up a buy order in one citadel, will I see it and be able to fill it in the next citadel over? I'm sure this has been answered before, just can't seem to find it right now.


I have tried that on SISI in a citadel with a market and only the range of "station" was available.

When using a citadel without a market you can place an order in different location, the same as putting up an order while in space.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#29 - 2016-05-08 21:13:31 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
You'd also have to worry about getting locked out of the citadel. Though I'd imagine you wouldn't put an order there in the first place if that was a likely scenario.

So do region wide buy orders affect citadels? Like if you set up a buy order in one citadel, will I see it and be able to fill it in the next citadel over? I'm sure this has been answered before, just can't seem to find it right now.


I have tried that on SISI in a citadel with a market and only the range of "station" was available.

When using a citadel without a market you can place an order in different location, the same as putting up an order while in space.



I set up 1 jump buy orders from a citadel with a market today, I also tried buy orders with 1 jump range from NPC stations to hit citadels, and set up buy orders then revoked access.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#30 - 2016-05-08 21:33:34 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
You'd also have to worry about getting locked out of the citadel. Though I'd imagine you wouldn't put an order there in the first place if that was a likely scenario.

So do region wide buy orders affect citadels? Like if you set up a buy order in one citadel, will I see it and be able to fill it in the next citadel over? I'm sure this has been answered before, just can't seem to find it right now.


I have tried that on SISI in a citadel with a market and only the range of "station" was available.

When using a citadel without a market you can place an order in different location, the same as putting up an order while in space.



I set up 1 jump buy orders from a citadel with a market today, I also tried buy orders with 1 jump range from NPC stations to hit citadels, and set up buy orders then revoked access.



So either something has changed in 2 days (improbable) or it is something about citadel settings.
Hitting the citadel markets when you set up a x jump wide order can be pretty bad, I suppose it will mean a sharp reductionin orders covering an area.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#31 - 2016-05-09 08:10:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
I will post my regionwide buy orders from Citadels, but that's the limit of the changes. Of course I'll have to suck up the broker fees wherever stock lands.

Also, I will be selling low margin items like PLEX via private contracts wherever possible.

Can you post region-wide buy orders from citadels? How does it work? Can they be filled at only the NPC stations plus that particular citadel? Or is it all citadels owned by the same corp or what?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2016-05-09 08:56:21 UTC
There's no guarantee that the owner(s), in case they can defend their hub, is/are not going to throw you and your stuffz out in space just because you looked at them funny by outbidding .01 on the market. So it is prob never going to happen.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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