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More rewards for group PVE
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Tian Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-05-07 18:30:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tian Toralen
There is no reason to group up for anomalies and exploration.

The attempt to make people group up for relic/data sites failed because it was somehow designed to punish people not in a group instead of rewarding those in a group. People could hack the site fine by themselves, without the need for help, and because of this - the spew can system felt like a punishment - "if you are not in a group it is possible to miss loot!".

I don't want to say make anomalies and exploration too hard to solo, I want to say: give extra rewards when completing them in a group. Or a chance of extra rewards.

Why? People group up for extra reward, that leads to more stuff happening in space. PVE and PVP.

For example - 3 people do an anomaly, the rewards from bounties are divided by 3, but also it's the time required - and at the end there is a bigger change of an escalation or spawn. And the escalation, if completed in a group has a bigger chance for blueprints or extra loot. In such a way that the total possible end rewards divided by the number of players are bigger than the possible end reward for a single player.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2016-05-07 18:58:20 UTC
This sounds like you have more of an issue with trust than actual rewards.

If you are working with others, the "payoff" is being more efficient and having more safey from other, more predatory, players... both of which allows you to run more sites at a faster pace, which allows you to gain more loot, and gets you a bigger payday.

The "catch" is that you have to trust the other people you are working with to divvy up the loot fairly.

How did you Veterans start?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2016-05-07 19:24:09 UTC
By group you mean someone's alts? I can have my alt(s) in my anomaly circling it in a ceptor at 100km and get a nice bonus reward.

Group activities are nice and dandy; however, unless they really require fleets with actual people like incursions or some unrated combat signatures do, they will just mean more farming for the same solo player. After all, why would you share something with someone else when it's already not enough to satisfy your own needs? Even with a bounty payment increase or more loot drops, it is you who needs and wants the money and sharing that money with others is counterproductive.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#4 - 2016-05-07 22:29:59 UTC
Bigger groups means you are better able to fend off attackers and finishing sites quickly means your group spends less time in one place which makes you harder again to attack.

It's not just pure isk/hour. Reduce your losses, deter attackers/afk cloakers and build your indices.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#5 - 2016-05-08 03:17:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Agondray
Im for it since ccp kill the lvl 4s with target switching keeping me from bring in new guys to mission in what ever ship they want to bring while I tanked everything, a lot of people I gamed with fell out of the game due to boredom of waiting on skills since pve could no longer be a fleet op with out the high experience dropping down to do lvl 1s.

and yes I know someone will abuse something like this with their army of alts, but that's what happens when you advertise having an alt for everything

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2016-05-08 03:22:48 UTC
Agondray wrote:
Im for it since ccp kill the lvl 4s with target switching keeping me from bring in new guys to mission in what ever ship they want to bring while I tanked everything, a lot of people I gamed with fell out of the game due to boredom of waiting on skills since pve could no longer be a fleet op with out the high experience dropping down to do lvl 1s.

Let me guess, no one thought to bring logi. A couple t1 logi cruisers make a huge difference when running newbies through higher end PvE.
Tian Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-05-08 09:55:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tian Toralen
Rivr Luzade wrote:
By group you mean someone's alts? I can have my alt(s) in my anomaly circling it in a ceptor at 100km and get a nice bonus reward.

Yes, I forgot this is "game of alts". Still, there is more effort from your part, and you pay 2 subs, you are entitled to extra rewards. This is no more "pay to win" than the fact that 2 subs allow you to never be caught by a gate camp, if you want to use them for that purpose.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2016-05-08 10:23:22 UTC
Tian Toralen wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
By group you mean someone's alts? I can have my alt(s) in my anomaly circling it in a ceptor at 100km and get a nice bonus reward.

Yes, I forgot this is "game of alts". Still, there is more effort from your part, and you pay 2 subs, you are entitled to extra rewards. This is no more "pay to win" than the fact that 2 subs allow you to never be caught by a gate camp, if you want to use them for that purpose.


Stop. Posting.
Tian Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-05-08 10:35:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tian Toralen
The extra rewards would not be much more, the bounties would be the same, just the final loot would be more. Not always, just a chance for more loot, according to the number of players in a 100km radius maybe. I don't know how they calculate it now, let's say there is the max loot that can drop right now. To that max loot they add extra stuff for each player present but do not increase the chance to drop. Or increase the chance to drop and keep the loot as it is.

I only have one main, if some people will use their 1000 alts to get even more rich, I don't mind. This would encourage more PVE fleets. It's not like people with 1000 alts are not using them for farming alone places that are designed for groups right now.

There will be more loot on the market, the prices will fall a little - nobody will get super rich farming with 10 alts (he has to pay for them). Isn't that CCPs view about alts - they are treated like regular players, even if only one person pushes the buttons?

But the incentive for PVE fleets will remain, even if there will be more loot in the market.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2016-05-08 10:37:37 UTC
What, so I pack a dozen ibis flying cyno alts into every anom I run and get free faction mods or something?
Tian Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-05-08 10:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tian Toralen
The chances will not grow so much. Just a little. And if you pay for 12 accounts, it's your right to use them as you please. And Ibises should be shot down by rats, so you won't be able to do that. Increase chances based on number of players present in the area, in a ship. And - these players have been there since the start of the anomaly. Programmers bussines how they implement this, to avoid things like brining 12 ibises just for the final boss.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2016-05-08 10:52:51 UTC
are the memories you make not reward enough?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#13 - 2016-05-08 13:16:22 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Agondray wrote:
Im for it since ccp kill the lvl 4s with target switching keeping me from bring in new guys to mission in what ever ship they want to bring while I tanked everything, a lot of people I gamed with fell out of the game due to boredom of waiting on skills since pve could no longer be a fleet op with out the high experience dropping down to do lvl 1s.

Let me guess, no one thought to bring logi. A couple t1 logi cruisers make a huge difference when running newbies through higher end PvE.


If anything the new ai made it more fun for new bros. Larger npc's seldom target frigs, so they get a small v small fight.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#14 - 2016-05-08 15:11:19 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Let me guess, no one thought to bring logi. A couple t1 logi cruisers make a huge difference when running newbies through higher end PvE.

Since remote reps is one of the biggest triggers for NPC switching this can be problematic and requires a multiple level of rep ships to keep each other alive. Not saying it cannot be done, just saying it is not always a good idea and in some cases based on the skill set of the players involved it may not be possible.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
If anything the new ai made it more fun for new bros. Larger npc's seldom target frigs, so they get a small v small fight.

Actually this is not how I have experienced it. After the usual attractions for EWAR and remote reps have been accounted for the smaller and weaker the ship the more likely they are to draw agro. Last ship into the pocket is also a larger draw for agro. Overall the changes have made PvE content better, but when it comes specifically to new players running higher level missions etc it has made it significantly harder than it was in the past.

Going back to the OP I say no to your idea.
Each player can make more per hour in a well coordinated fleet than they can running solo even using multiple characters so the rewards are not what prevents people from running in a group. Not having friends online at the right time, not trusting those who are online and to be honest a bit of selfishness are the main causes and nothing you can do to the content will change that.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-05-08 15:39:01 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
This sounds like you have more of an issue with trust than actual rewards.

If you are working with others, the "payoff" is being more efficient and having more safey from other, more predatory, players... both of which allows you to run more sites at a faster pace, which allows you to gain more loot, and gets you a bigger payday.

The "catch" is that you have to trust the other people you are working with to divvy up the loot fairly.


It's not more efficient because you spend more time in warp not shooting things. You're better of running 2 anomaly with 2 character than trying to run one with 2 character to go faster. The gain in protection from not being alone is good but usually not valued high enough to justify people running their alt or friends in the same site.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#16 - 2016-05-08 16:51:06 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Let me guess, no one thought to bring logi. A couple t1 logi cruisers make a huge difference when running newbies through higher end PvE.

Since remote reps is one of the biggest triggers for NPC switching this can be problematic and requires a multiple level of rep ships to keep each other alive. Not saying it cannot be done, just saying it is not always a good idea and in some cases based on the skill set of the players involved it may not be possible.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
If anything the new ai made it more fun for new bros. Larger npc's seldom target frigs, so they get a small v small fight.

Actually this is not how I have experienced it. After the usual attractions for EWAR and remote reps have been accounted for the smaller and weaker the ship the more likely they are to draw agro. Last ship into the pocket is also a larger draw for agro. Overall the changes have made PvE content better, but when it comes specifically to new players running higher level missions etc it has made it significantly harder than it was in the past.



I use logi drones so perhaps that's why new bros are rarely targeted with me. I'll add that I've been playing with the new remote reps and t1 logi cruisers in level 4s. They take a fraction of the dps that battleships do, so you can get away with just one equipped with a shield booster in the less intense missions.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-05-09 18:27:54 UTC
One way to reward people in a group is to make the NPCs spread their damage across multiple ships. If you come in solo, you'll still have all the NPCs shooting at you. With a mechanic like this, sites could be introduced with enough incoming DPS to burn through logi and take out battleships in the blink of an eye, but it wouldn't be any sweat for a large PVE fleet of, say, 25+ members. Bring enough people and you won't even need logi, everyone COULD just be active-tanked.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-05-09 20:48:03 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
One way to reward people in a group is to make the NPCs spread their damage across multiple ships. If you come in solo, you'll still have all the NPCs shooting at you. With a mechanic like this, sites could be introduced with enough incoming DPS to burn through logi and take out battleships in the blink of an eye, but it wouldn't be any sweat for a large PVE fleet of, say, 25+ members. Bring enough people and you won't even need logi, everyone COULD just be active-tanked.


The AI currently does not even behave the same way all the time and you expect this one to not at least from time to time literally alpha someone off the grid even if he has plenty of friends there? Rats attacking my drone when I ran an Ishtar for ratting was mostly a dice roll without anything to even try to get them to focus on me. Sometime they would always beeline for my drones while other time they would completely ignore them without any change to my fit or behavior.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#19 - 2016-05-10 15:44:50 UTC
I agree that the game needs more incentive, especially in the environment, to group.

For far too long EVE has catered to gank bears, and everything about 99% of PvE discourages any sort of cooperative behavior.

I'd love to see a way for larger ships to anchor smaller ships in fleet with some way to divert damage to the larger ship by hiding smaller signatures within larger ones, or something similar that improves tactical options without necessarily improving income beyond what increased efficiency already does.