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New Carriers? CCP pls...

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Marin Lunaire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-05-07 11:36:51 UTC
Forgive me for being blunt but the new Carriers are a huge **** you sign for solo and small gang pvp. They basically create a no fly zone wherever they are fielded be it at gates or stations. I mean fighters volley mwd frigs which burn back to the gate for christs sake. Shouldn't fast things outrun fighters launched by massive carriers like in rock paper scissors!? All this does is to reward stationary risk averse pvp with carriers negating every thinkable subcap piloting tactic. Obvious fix: things 2.5-3k m/s + outrun fighters. I mean sersly how did these things made it off the test server. CCP pls...
Doyey3731
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2016-05-07 11:46:13 UTC
Ships worth multiple bullions that take many months of training vs a frigate that takes days to fly and 10's of millions of isk? I don't see the problem
Zathra Narazi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2016-05-07 11:54:08 UTC
Just reminding everyone again that once upon a time CCP promised us capitals wouldn't be "solo pwnmobiles". What happened to that, CCP?
Marin Lunaire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-05-07 11:54:30 UTC
Doyey3731 wrote:
Ships worth multiple bullions that take many months of training vs a frigate that takes days to fly and 10's of millions of isk? I don't see the problem



More expensive ships shouldn't just overpower less expensive ships in each and every way. That's just dull. Make cariiers powerful but in some way vulnerable. As it stands an important aspect of eve pvp is just rendered impossible wherever carriers are fielded. This is bad for the game. Very. Imagine you are a small gang or solo pilot relying on positioning and speed tactics to outlast a vastly superior force: This actually takes skill. It is engaging tactical gameplay whereas now the carrier pilots just asigns his fighters and kills all the things. That's bad game design.
Zathra Narazi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-05-07 11:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zathra Narazi
Doyey3731 wrote:
Ships worth multiple bullions that take many months of training vs a frigate that takes days to fly and 10's of millions of isk? I don't see the problem

Why not? I kill battleships in T1 frigs. I kill carebears in bling ships where 1 module costs more than everything I own. Since when has price ever had anything to do with combat effectiveness? Nobody should be able to run around and instagib fleets with impunity regardless of how much they spend.
Digits Kho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2016-05-07 12:03:38 UTC
Doyey3731 wrote:
I don't see the problem


Think it was writen earlier

Marin Lunaire wrote:
the new Carriers are a huge **** you sign for solo and small gang pvp. They basically create a no fly zone wherever they are fielded be it at gates or stations.
Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#7 - 2016-05-07 12:18:01 UTC
Marin Lunaire wrote:
Forgive me for being blunt but the new Carriers are a huge **** you sign for solo and small gang pvp. They basically create a no fly zone wherever they are fielded be it at gates or stations. I mean fighters volley mwd frigs which burn back to the gate for christs sake. Shouldn't fast things outrun fighters launched by massive carriers like in rock paper scissors!? All this does is to reward stationary risk averse pvp with carriers negating every thinkable subcap piloting tactic. Obvious fix: things 2.5-3k m/s + outrun fighters. I mean sersly how did these things made it off the test server. CCP pls...


Moral of the story... Never bring a knife to a gun fight. Bring a bigger gun.
Carriers working as intended.


Max

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
Marin Lunaire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-05-07 12:24:45 UTC
Max Fubarticus wrote:
Marin Lunaire wrote:
Forgive me for being blunt but the new Carriers are a huge **** you sign for solo and small gang pvp. They basically create a no fly zone wherever they are fielded be it at gates or stations. I mean fighters volley mwd frigs which burn back to the gate for christs sake. Shouldn't fast things outrun fighters launched by massive carriers like in rock paper scissors!? All this does is to reward stationary risk averse pvp with carriers negating every thinkable subcap piloting tactic. Obvious fix: things 2.5-3k m/s + outrun fighters. I mean sersly how did these things made it off the test server. CCP pls...


Moral of the story... Never bring a knife to a gun fight. Bring a bigger gun.
Carriers working as intended.


Max



Yes because Eve will be a better game without a niche for subcaps and assigning fighters should always beat piloting skill. C'mon now.... Even as a carrier pilot this change is terribad since it massively dulls down eve pvp as a whole which will result in losing players/targets. This really is a no brainer.
MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#9 - 2016-05-07 12:57:02 UTC
Jam them. Bring a guy with a Griffin and jam all of them, then destroy them.

Fighters are VERY vulnerable to EWAR. Like I said in that other thread you were posting this in, just re-examine your tactics and try something new. Just because orbiting above 7km/s doesn't guarantee you invulnerability against carriers anymore doesn't mean they now have no counters and are completely overpowered destroyers of fun.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
Marin Lunaire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-05-07 13:12:44 UTC
MidnightWyvern wrote:
Jam them. Bring a guy with a Griffin and jam all of them, then destroy them.

Fighters are VERY vulnerable to EWAR. Like I said in that other thread you were posting this in, just re-examine your tactics and try something new. Just because orbiting above 7km/s doesn't guarantee you invulnerability against carriers anymore doesn't mean they now have no counters and are completely overpowered destroyers of fun.



To small gang pilots they are excatly that: Completely overpowered destroyers of fun. these things can volley you before you can even lock a fighter let alone jam all of them. How many boring ecmboats do you want small gangs to carry around to be able to even fight in a carriers area of presence? what if they just field another carrier? This just caters to stationary and dull pvp. Small gangs and solo pilots who are willing to engage a larger force get nerfed into oblivion. Give solo pilots or small gangs a window of opportunity to kill something ongrid while outmaneuvering drones. I'm not saying make it easy .Think about it: Manually outmaneuvering fighters could be a fun and engaging aspect of eve pvp. Fighting against the blob solo or in a inferior force is dificult as it is and it takes quite a bit of skill. Now it's basically impossible if you don't bring several anti-carrier ecm-boats or your on caps which rules out solo pvp completely and all bye pushing a button. I'm sorry but that's just a very bad game design choice CCP made there.
Dani Gallar
Doomheim
#11 - 2016-05-07 13:48:12 UTC
Marin Lunaire wrote:
MidnightWyvern wrote:
Jam them. Bring a guy with a Griffin and jam all of them, then destroy them.

Fighters are VERY vulnerable to EWAR. Like I said in that other thread you were posting this in, just re-examine your tactics and try something new. Just because orbiting above 7km/s doesn't guarantee you invulnerability against carriers anymore doesn't mean they now have no counters and are completely overpowered destroyers of fun.



To small gang pilots they are excatly that: Completely overpowered destroyers of fun. these things can volley you before you can even lock a fighter let alone jam all of them. How many boring ecmboats do you want small gangs to carry around to be able to even fight in a carriers area of presence? what if they just field another carrier? This just caters to stationary and dull pvp. Small gangs and solo pilots who are willing to engage a larger force get nerfed into oblivion. Give solo pilots or small gangs a window of opportunity to kill something ongrid while outmaneuvering drones. I'm not saying make it easy .Think about it: Manually outmaneuvering fighters could be a fun and engaging aspect of eve pvp. Fighting against the blob solo or in a inferior force is dificult as it is and it takes quite a bit of skill. Now it's basically impossible if you don't bring several anti-carrier ecm-boats or your on caps which rules out solo pvp completely and all bye pushing a button. I'm sorry but that's just a very bad game design choice CCP made there.


So all those who claimed Carriers where HORRIBLE before the change where wrong then ? From what I have heard before the change you could take down a Carrier with a force worth only a fraction of the Carriers immense cost, do you think this was any more 'fun' for the Carrier capsuleer ?

I believe that IF CCP sees the more powerful Carriers as an issue they will nerf them, they certainly haven´t been shy in nerfing other 'powerhouses' in the past.
Mr Duffo
SQUIDS.
#12 - 2016-05-07 14:15:55 UTC
How did he have time to lock you when you were burning to gate with mwd?

Skeggǫld, Skálmǫld, Skildir ro Klofnir!

Never forget! #OICXmassacre2014
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars
#13 - 2016-05-07 15:54:26 UTC
Marin Lunaire wrote:
MidnightWyvern wrote:
Jam them. Bring a guy with a Griffin and jam all of them, then destroy them.

Fighters are VERY vulnerable to EWAR. Like I said in that other thread you were posting this in, just re-examine your tactics and try something new. Just because orbiting above 7km/s doesn't guarantee you invulnerability against carriers anymore doesn't mean they now have no counters and are completely overpowered destroyers of fun.



To small gang pilots they are excatly that: Completely overpowered destroyers of fun. these things can volley you before you can even lock a fighter let alone jam all of them. How many boring ecmboats do you want small gangs to carry around to be able to even fight in a carriers area of presence? what if they just field another carrier? This just caters to stationary and dull pvp. Small gangs and solo pilots who are willing to engage a larger force get nerfed into oblivion. Give solo pilots or small gangs a window of opportunity to kill something ongrid while outmaneuvering drones. I'm not saying make it easy .Think about it: Manually outmaneuvering fighters could be a fun and engaging aspect of eve pvp. Fighting against the blob solo or in a inferior force is dificult as it is and it takes quite a bit of skill. Now it's basically impossible if you don't bring several anti-carrier ecm-boats or your on caps which rules out solo pvp completely and all bye pushing a button. I'm sorry but that's just a very bad game design choice CCP made there.


So your argument is that you want to fight a blob on your own but if the blob has new carriers you can't kill the blob?

Are you sure you want to file this as your official argument?
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-05-07 16:20:02 UTC
All the lazy azz care bears spamming this and other threads as "nothing wrong with carriers, bring bigger guns" well lazy carriers dont rat alone. you, small gang, bring a 10 man fleet, he warps in another carrier, demolishes your fleet, and goes back to ratting. Thanks fozziebag, thanks the other bald dude who knows nothing about pvp, thanks for the dudubag.
Dani Gallar
Doomheim
#15 - 2016-05-07 16:36:47 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:
All the lazy azz care bears spamming this and other threads as "nothing wrong with carriers, bring bigger guns" well lazy carriers dont rat alone. you, small gang, bring a 10 man fleet, he warps in another carrier, demolishes your fleet, and goes back to ratting. Thanks fozziebag, thanks the other bald dude who knows nothing about pvp, thanks for the dudubag.


Again, do you think it was better before when Carriers where useless and easily destroyed by ships only worth a fraction of the Carriers ISK value ?

If your answer to my question is YES then please consider that a carrier takes time and comittment to be able to fly properly (I'm now talking about character skills and not player skills which I know nothing about). Why is it imperative that people flying ships you can learn in less then a month to be able to destroy said Carrier with ease.

I mean, you could be making a good point but your post (and your previous posts on the subject) instead makes you sound like a lazy person who refuses to adpat to a new set of 'rules' put in place by CCP in the latest patch. Also again I'm 100 % sure that IF the Carriers are now overpowered (able to take on forces worth more ISK and still prevail when player skill is equal on both sides) then CCP will make a rebalance due to not being shy of nerfing powerful ships in the past.
Xair Nuitarius
BAND of MAGNUS
#16 - 2016-05-07 16:48:42 UTC
Isn't big part of PvP wise chosing targets? Just don't fight with cariers if you haven't ships to kill them.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#17 - 2016-05-07 17:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
maCH'EttE wrote:
All the lazy azz care bears spamming this and other threads as "nothing wrong with carriers, bring bigger guns" well lazy carriers dont rat alone. you, small gang, bring a 10 man fleet, he warps in another carrier, demolishes your fleet, and goes back to ratting. Thanks fozziebag, thanks the other bald dude who knows nothing about pvp, thanks for the dudubag.


Screw that, I was thinking of insuring my Carrier in Stain and then going into a certain gate camp with it for lols, which is why I am frantically training up the fighter skills as high as I can before it gets nerfed and my fun ruined because of whining from people like you. Now I have got that off my chest, I was interested in hearing of counters to carriers, I do have some concerns in terms of the impact on sup caps as a whole and that is not just from the Carrier but from the new Doomsday and other such changes. I guess that will take a little bit of time to pan out.

It is good to see capitals fun again, however any reasonable person would have some concerns, your 11 man gang will have to avoid mixing it with carriers unless you have brought the right fleet setup or had the foresight to arrange to have the counter available in some way especially as people will now switch to carriers and if you don't you are acting entitled yourself.

I think the guy you were referrng to was Dark Razor who was a very good NCDOT and then PL FC who I have been in fleets with during the Tribute war, the guy knows his stuff.

EDIT: Grrrr, you are a WH entity, good god man surely you can pull in dreads and a carrier if you wanted to?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
TheDamned
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2016-05-07 17:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: TheDamned
I see dead people...

"My friends and I cant clean out a system anymore! OMG /logout"

It's so funny when I see vets blob people on the forums about things they feel are OP or too much to deal with and then I see a hundred threads like this by vets. haha

Small fish are eaten by bigger fish, bigger fish are eaten by large fish, large fish cry when a bigger than large fish swallows them like plankton.
MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#19 - 2016-05-07 17:07:16 UTC
Xair Nuitarius wrote:
Isn't big part of PvP wise chosing targets? Just don't fight with cariers if you haven't ships to kill them.

Get out of here with that heresy!

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2016-05-07 17:16:16 UTC
Dani Gallar wrote:
maCH'EttE wrote:
All the lazy azz care bears spamming this and other threads as "nothing wrong with carriers, bring bigger guns" well lazy carriers dont rat alone. you, small gang, bring a 10 man fleet, he warps in another carrier, demolishes your fleet, and goes back to ratting. Thanks fozziebag, thanks the other bald dude who knows nothing about pvp, thanks for the dudubag.


Again, do you think it was better before when Carriers where useless and easily destroyed by ships only worth a fraction of the Carriers ISK value ?

If your answer to my question is YES then please consider that a carrier takes time and comittment to be able to fly properly (I'm now talking about character skills and not player skills which I know nothing about). Why is it imperative that people flying ships you can learn in less then a month to be able to destroy said Carrier with ease.

I mean, you could be making a good point but your post (and your previous posts on the subject) instead makes you sound like a lazy person who refuses to adpat to a new set of 'rules' put in place by CCP in the latest patch. Also again I'm 100 % sure that IF the Carriers are now overpowered (able to take on forces worth more ISK and still prevail when player skill is equal on both sides) then CCP will make a rebalance due to not being shy of nerfing powerful ships in the past.

they were not useless, they were still ratting. and they were not destroyed by One ship, it was a fleet of ships. I dont think you understand the implication of this change. Maybe you just dont want to because you were one of those lazy ratters, who lost several carriers to small gangs, and now, with these changes, you know that there is no more threat because of your fighters going 10,000kmps doing insane damage, with insane tracking and a lock range of 1,000km, and locking a frigate under 4 seconds with your ship modifications.
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