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Small and personal citadel
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Aaron Raus
Whispering Pines Golf Club
#1 - 2016-04-01 09:28:02 UTC
Hi.

Sooner or later POS will be gone. But even now player requires roles to be able to launch the POS.

I suggest small personal citadel, that can be launched by player regardless to corp roles he has.

It can have much smaller EHP, require no war dec to be shoot (so - no use in high sec), limited ship hangar (but still larger, than ORCA's one) and a number of other limitations against medium citadel. But it still will let player has "mobile" home in null / WH space, that requires no fuel to let him dock. It should be cheapier, than medium citadel and have smaller anchoring / de-anchoring times (no "wait a week and than relocate").
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#2 - 2016-04-01 09:36:31 UTC
Nah, mediums only cost 700m, just use an alt and stop pretending this game doesn't already force you to have more than one character.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Aaron Raus
Whispering Pines Golf Club
#3 - 2016-04-01 11:32:58 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
mediums only cost 700m, just use an alt and stop pretending this game doesn't already force you to have more than one character.


Exactly. 700 milions, need of an alt (who may appear as hostile in soverenity null space), 7 days to remove once deployed medium citadel etc...
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#4 - 2016-04-01 16:05:02 UTC
Medium = POS

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#5 - 2016-04-01 17:14:22 UTC
What would this small citadel let you do that you can't already do using a mobile depot?
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#6 - 2016-04-01 18:14:26 UTC
Do Little wrote:
What would this small citadel let you do that you can't already do using a mobile depot?




It will enable you to Do Little

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#7 - 2016-04-04 13:15:14 UTC
Do Little wrote:
What would this small citadel let you do that you can't already do using a mobile depot?


Apparently, OP idea is about to get at least some protection for less money and need to wait 7 days to relocate the stuff.

Mobile depot + cloaked alt in Orca is not that effective in what regards protection, IMHO. Though do-able.

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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#8 - 2016-04-04 13:28:58 UTC
I think he wants to be able to set up a short term base in a wh, farm it and then move on.

I'm not against his idea, but I am against the timing. I would recommend let this idea get put on a back burner. Bring in citadels, phase out POS stuff and then see where we need to go from there.

The POS to citadel change was so many years in the making due to arcane coding stuffs (pure voodoo from what I hear). Once citadels are up, their coding won't be locked in the head of just one dude that no longer works for CCP. If mini citadels need to be a thing in 2 years time, then go for it. There are so many things in flux right now, I'm saying let's see what the new changes actually do to us before we ask for even more.

Not a bad idea to bounce around, just the timing is not ideal.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#9 - 2016-04-04 14:23:59 UTC  |  Edited by: DrysonBennington
Nothing wrong with a Farming Citadel.

I think it should be able to be cloaked though while not being used.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#10 - 2016-04-04 14:56:02 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
Nothing wrong with a Farming Citadel.

I think it should be able to be cloaked though while not being used.




I like your thinking, if you're ever looking for a new corp - reach out to me.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#11 - 2016-05-05 16:10:44 UTC
When CCP asked for ideas in the structures ideas thread before Citadels came out I asked for this in that thread, I wanted it to be a mobile base with the ability to cloak, when you used it to dock it would de-cloak and cloaked when you were docked, when you left it it would be uncloaked until you left its range then cloak. It would be able to take a small amount of ships and have a small amount of storage space. CCP ignored me, I hope they listen to this suggestion.

Very good post OP and fingers crossed taht they notice it.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2016-05-06 01:41:25 UTC
Aaron Raus wrote:
Hi.

Sooner or later POS will be gone. But even now player requires roles to be able to launch the POS.

I suggest small personal citadel, that can be launched by player regardless to corp roles he has.

It can have much smaller EHP, require no war dec to be shoot (so - no use in high sec), limited ship hangar (but still larger, than ORCA's one) and a number of other limitations against medium citadel. But it still will let player has "mobile" home in null / WH space, that requires no fuel to let him dock. It should be cheapier, than medium citadel and have smaller anchoring / de-anchoring times (no "wait a week and than relocate").

Dracvlad wrote:
When CCP asked for ideas in the structures ideas thread before Citadels came out I asked for this in that thread, I wanted it to be a mobile base with the ability to cloak, when you used it to dock it would de-cloak and cloaked when you were docked, when you left it it would be uncloaked until you left its range then cloak. It would be able to take a small amount of ships and have a small amount of storage space. CCP ignored me, I hope they listen to this suggestion.

Very good post OP and fingers crossed taht they notice it.

Agreed 100% to the quotes posted above.

Solo players and small Corps are part of the playerbase too. If CCP really wanted players to move out of high sec then they would add tools to allow all players the ability to do so.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#13 - 2016-05-06 02:20:42 UTC
I think the anchoring time is the real issue with the Citadels. A POS can be propped up in 15 minutes between anchoring and onlining and can provide a temporary shelter. Once POSes are removed, there will be nothing to effectively fill that space.

What is needed is a quasi capital ship class from Upwell that functions like a mobile Citadel. It can travel via gates, large WHs, and jump to a cyno beacon if it has fuel. It can anchor over a 15-30 minute period allowing tethering and storage of items in a fleet hanger. It will burn fuel blocks while anchored and be extra resilient against damage. It could field one flight of light fighters, no drones, and has limited weaponry. It can be picked up on DScan but has to be combat probed down. It would have no ability to collect resources - just store and transfer.

More expensive versions can have a medical bay or compression abilities. Some ammo manufacturing ability as well and a lousy reprocessing ability.

While it is anchored, you can undock from it and it will remain anchored. It uses roles to determine who can use or take over the ship/unanchor.

I would rather see the Rorqual function like this than have the uber shield of gank-me-I'm-helpless.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-05-06 05:10:50 UTC
A medium is best for a small group of players, or a single player who is doing a lot with the thing. It would be great to have small citadels that are really only made for a single player. Then I'd like to see the removal of mobile depot invulnerability and force the player to use a small citadel if they want that sweet reinforce timer.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

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Aaron Raus
Whispering Pines Golf Club
#15 - 2016-05-06 07:05:30 UTC
Petrified wrote:


What is needed is a quasi capital ship class from Upwell that functions like a mobile Citadel.


Capital ship will require long time skilling and can be boarded by anyone with appropriate skills. but of cause that can be also the way, if boarding procedure will be defended with password and skill requirements will be lowered.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#16 - 2016-05-06 08:32:23 UTC
Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
#17 - 2016-05-06 15:34:42 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
I have used Orca as a mobile hangar when I jump around the high sec and explore the low sec around it.


Is this really a viable option for a solo-player who doesn't want/can't use multiple accounts. Being a Nomad, I too use this tactic of operation with my alt sometimes but I don't believe this was the "primary" intended use of the Orca... Especially when they can just design something so many here have suggested without detracting what the Pos currently provides.
Ashlar Maidstone
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#18 - 2016-05-06 15:41:06 UTC
I like this idea, as I am rather nomadic anyway, and having a bit more than a Mobile Depot would serve a great purpose. I just wonder tho if there was any thought even put into some game play that hasn't been noticed?
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2016-05-06 18:08:07 UTC
I'm all for this idea. Hopefully the Corp roles restraints will be updated sometime soon to allow more granularity as well, but in the meantime, smaller structures for basic use would be very useful.

I've been on the receiving end of black ops gangs who set up camp nearby, in multiple different sizes of POS. They store fuel, ammo, a few ships, loot, and stage out of them for their attacks. Giving a easier access, temporary base allows for lots of lower-end content more often.

Obviously as a structure with fewer services and consequence would require a different pattern of reinforcement than the new citadels, but I believe it could be easily managed.

I also firmly believe the cost should be lower than the existing mediums, but not drastically as to make them disposable as a mobile depot or MTU. A current setup of small POS with a couple guns, SMA, Corp/personal hangar, and some hardeners can cost under 200mil. Which is a large measure smaller than the current mediums. A structure offering the basic functionalities could probably be reasoned out around 300mil without too much issue.
Kyra Lee
Doomheim
#20 - 2016-05-07 08:29:57 UTC
After reading through this thread and the one in GD that I think spawned it I think we can come up with something that works.

Small citadel - around 300mil to build and be 3000 M3 in size
It could be built using only minerals and PI
Slot layout 3H, 3M, 2L, 3 Service, 3 Rigs
PWG, CPU, and Cap would be scaled down from the other sizes so I don't have hard numbers for those. Service modules would require fuel bocks to run but shouldnt require that huge amount of blocks to start up. Maybe that cost could be added into the hourly recurring fuel cost.
The base citadel would function like its bigger versions as far as tethering, docking permissions, fitting, and repair of ships and modules
Storage would be limited to 50k per character for non ship items and 400k M3 ship maintenance bay per character
There would be no limit to the number of characters able to dock and use this citadel
There would be no corp hangers or office rentals and no option to fit the market service module
This would be a personal deployable like the MTU and mobile depot but could be configured to use corp/alliance standings and such if desired.

This structure would be always vulnerable to attack but would enter a short reinforcement timer once the structure was breached. I would say no more than 24 hours. This could be based on a vulnerability window like the POCOs use now or on stront fuel like a POS. I personally would use the vulnerability windows. Once reinforced all service modules and tethering effects go offline. High, Medium, and Low slots would remain active as well as capacitor regeneration, docking, and personal and ship storage. At the end of the reinforcement timer the repair timer starts up and after 15 minutes of no damage the citadel will begin repairing itself. It would not be instantly repaired though, it would regenerate its structure, armor, and shield at a fast rate starting with the structure first and then proceed on to armor and finally shield. I think 1 hour to fully repair itself sounds reasonable. If the citadel takes any damage the repair timer starts over again but any previously repaired armor and shield would remain. If the citadel is destroyed then normal loot fairy rules apply, no asset safety like larger citadels.

It would take 15 minutes to anchor the structure and when anchored only the structure layer would be present and the 15 minute repair timer would start. You would be able to immediately dock and fit all types of modules so that you can mount a defense right away if necessary. Unanchoring would also take 15 minutes and anything still contained in the citadel would be ejected into a can that anyone can scoop.

That should cover the basics of the citadel itself. I don't feel this or any other structure should be able to cloak while we have a perfect cloaking system in game. These things need to be able to be found and shot at. One idea that I could see as a service module is while any ship is tethered it does not show up on dscan or combat probes. The citadel would be visible but act as a mobile scan inhibitor. Other service modules will likely come out when the new indy and mining structures are released so those could fit on here too.

So there is a small citadel that is more mobile than a medium but also more vulnerable. It would be defend able against a small group and would augment a defensive fleet. It would allow storage for personal items as well as ships. It would be able to accomplish all the normal things a citadel can(except market) just not all of them at once. This would be a personal deployable so corp roles wouldn't matter but could be configured to allow corp/alliance access. Leaving it vulnerable all the time and having a short reinforcement window means it isn't well suited to be a beachhead for an invading army but will deter anyone that isn't committing to the fight.

Let me know what everyone thinks!
KL
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