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Killing a Keepstar in Highsec?
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Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#1 - 2016-05-05 10:45:21 UTC
I've been talking to a few people about how to actually kill a Keepstar in Highsec.

Does anyone have an actual concrete plan of doing so? As I highly doubt the Highsec Wardec Corps could pull it off. (Not to bash anyone here, but you guys kinda live in trade hubs/choke points and gank **** through wardecs)

Just looking at base HP here, and a Keepstar has 7.2 X more HP then a Large Tower. The investment alone says that the owner has ISK to burn. (There is no practical reason to have a Keepstar in Highsec) Which means the owner /should/ have some kinda backing to defend it. Let alone the subcap targeted offensive capabilities should warn off the smaller groups. (Looking at that Domi/Guardian group who failed at that Astrahus in Perimeter a few days ago)

So, is there a practical way to remove a Keepstar from Highsec?

...
Ro Fenrios
Armilies Corporation
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#2 - 2016-05-05 10:50:34 UTC
Requires large fleet, but sure. Put 200 dudes into decent doctrine and that should do it.
Luukje
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#3 - 2016-05-05 11:02:05 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
I've been talking to a few people about how to actually kill a Keepstar in Highsec.

Does anyone have an actual concrete plan of doing so? As I highly doubt the Highsec Wardec Corps could pull it off. (Not to bash anyone here, but you guys kinda live in trade hubs/choke points and gank **** through wardecs)

Just looking at base HP here, and a Keepstar has 7.2 X more HP then a Large Tower. The investment alone says that the owner has ISK to burn. (There is no practical reason to have a Keepstar in Highsec) Which means the owner /should/ have some kinda backing to defend it. Let alone the subcap targeted offensive capabilities should warn off the smaller groups. (Looking at that Domi/Guardian group who failed at that Astrahus in Perimeter a few days ago)

So, is there a practical way to remove a Keepstar from Highsec?


Easy, hire us. Already working on multiple citadel kills/defence contracts. :)
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-05-05 11:03:13 UTC
The Domi/Guardian group didn't fail in Perimeter, they took the shield down then it entered in reinforce mode. Next day the armor went down and next Sunday the hull will go down. The logi made a mistake, went suspect and that's why they lost those; to the people watching the show and not to the citadel defenses.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#5 - 2016-05-05 11:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Azami Nevinyrall
Luukje wrote:


Easy, hire us. Already working on multiple citadel kills/defence contracts. :)


I watched how you guys handled the Citadel in Perimeter...


https://zkillboard.com/kill/53700492/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/53700474/

...and whored on some of your losses!

Gimme Sake wrote:
The Domi/Guardian group didn't fail in Perimeter, they took the shield down then it entered in reinforce mode. Next day the armor went down and next Sunday the hull will go down. The logi made a mistake, went suspect and that's why they lost those; to the people watching the show and not to the citadel defenses.

Actually it was an epic failure, especially from an "organized" group who shouldn't have made such a simple mistake. There's also a small difference between a undefended Citadel with 7 Million HP and no defence, compared to a Citadel with 108 Million HP, and as my original question states. "Properly defended and properly fitted for Anti-Subcap.."

...
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#6 - 2016-05-05 11:12:50 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
I've been talking to a few people about how to actually kill a Keepstar in Highsec.

Does anyone have an actual concrete plan of doing so? As I highly doubt the Highsec Wardec Corps could pull it off. (Not to bash anyone here, but you guys kinda live in trade hubs/choke points and gank **** through wardecs)

Just looking at base HP here, and a Keepstar has 7.2 X more HP then a Large Tower. The investment alone says that the owner has ISK to burn. (There is no practical reason to have a Keepstar in Highsec) Which means the owner /should/ have some kinda backing to defend it. Let alone the subcap targeted offensive capabilities should warn off the smaller groups. (Looking at that Domi/Guardian group who failed at that Astrahus in Perimeter a few days ago)

So, is there a practical way to remove a Keepstar from Highsec?


Are you sure you wer watching the same group? Cause they reinforced the Citadel in perimeter in domi's. Im pretty sure they used domi's due to the hard dps cap. Also, they did this while the citadel was shooting them, and with suicide rohk's warping in to try and smartbomb the attackers. Keepstars have gaggle of hp but that wont stop an attacker from gettin a few more pilots to take out a keepstar in fleet. Not to mention these first citadel owners have been dec'd by multiple groups. Im not as keen to poking at the merc groups of hisec as you are. But im guessing if a few of them gathered up as they are now your keepstar wont last to long in hisec.

PS: The citadel in perimeter comes out of reinforcement sunday. Due to it being reinforced the two times it took to get to this final timer.

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#7 - 2016-05-05 11:54:06 UTC
To OP:

Bring enough ships to crash the node.

That'll teach 'em.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-05-05 20:37:54 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
The Domi/Guardian group didn't fail in Perimeter, they took the shield down then it entered in reinforce mode. Next day the armor went down and next Sunday the hull will go down. The logi made a mistake, went suspect and that's why they lost those; to the people watching the show and not to the citadel defenses.


Never not shoot yellow logi.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-05-05 20:44:06 UTC
I think the major difference will be that killing a Keepstar will come with almost certain losses. Since the station will always drop loot with at least a moderately predictable value, the cost of the losses can be figured into the contract fee with the mercs.

It'll be a different world though, even a strategic victory could come at the cost of numerous vessels.

Keepstars (if anyone bothers to anchor them in HS, but who am I kidding, of course they will) will die in HS, it'll be expensive and the attackers will likely take losses, but it'll happen. Maybe not the first or even second time, as they work out the kinks in their tactics and fleet comps etc, but it'll happen.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Luukje
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#10 - 2016-05-05 22:28:40 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Luukje wrote:


Easy, hire us. Already working on multiple citadel kills/defence contracts. :)


I watched how you guys handled the Citadel in Perimeter...


https://zkillboard.com/kill/53700492/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/53700474/

...and whored on some of your losses!

Gimme Sake wrote:
The Domi/Guardian group didn't fail in Perimeter, they took the shield down then it entered in reinforce mode. Next day the armor went down and next Sunday the hull will go down. The logi made a mistake, went suspect and that's why they lost those; to the people watching the show and not to the citadel defenses.

Actually it was an epic failure, especially from an "organized" group who shouldn't have made such a simple mistake. There's also a small difference between a undefended Citadel with 7 Million HP and no defence, compared to a Citadel with 108 Million HP, and as my original question states. "Properly defended and properly fitted for Anti-Subcap.."



calculations have shown that we will be totally fine against any hi-sec citadel. so i'm really not worried. And yeah, dont worry, the guy who had his security on yellow has been spanked accordingly.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#11 - 2016-05-06 00:16:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalashaska Adam
If your talking about some ultra-rich individual putting up a Keepstar in highsec, and not a null power bloc with a huge defensive fleet, absolutely the highsec wardeccer alliances could bring it down.

It would be no different from any other citadel attack, you would just need to multiply the logi to counteract the dps and cap warfare and bring the offensive firepower up to 90,000 dps.

The first Keepstar that goes up in highsec from someone who doesn't have a 100+ man fleet at his disposal, is going to get completely dogpiled by every merc corp and alliance in new eden.

Every attacking group doesn't need to individually have the logistical capability to tank the citadel, you can outrange its scrams, webs and neuts, by using spike nagas. Sure its missiles can fire that far, but if you get redboxed as a sniping naga, you have literally a minute to notice and warp off and back, the missiles are painfully slow.
Valkin Mordirc
#12 - 2016-05-06 04:09:52 UTC
The amount of salt coming from OP is ridiculous. XD


Trollbait 8/8
#DeleteTheWeak
Drax Kado
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-05-06 07:34:36 UTC
This citadel close to jita, who owns it and why is it being attacked and what time is the next attack, sorry to ask here but can't find information on it.
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#14 - 2016-05-06 07:48:51 UTC
Drax Kado wrote:
This citadel close to jita, who owns it and why is it being attacked and what time is the next attack, sorry to ask here but can't find information on it.


It is being attacked purely so we could test different doctrines and see what it can offer in terms of defence. We also wanted to see how the mechanics would work and how the defending corp would react. They had had a week to deal with this threat.

We will be taking all contracts vs citadels. And we would like to test a larger citadel in time.

The thing with keepstars is that they pose a challenge and we like overcoming challenge. I'd rather be hired to defend a citadel than to aggres it but hey we will do what it takes to have fun and earn a crust!

As for the mistake on the first citadel. We dusted off and 15 min later came back to finish the job. You cannot knock that.
Drax Kado
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-05-06 08:42:22 UTC
Natural CloneKiller wrote:
Drax Kado wrote:
This citadel close to jita, who owns it and why is it being attacked and what time is the next attack, sorry to ask here but can't find information on it.


It is being attacked purely so we could test different doctrines and see what it can offer in terms of defence. We also wanted to see how the mechanics would work and how the defending corp would react. They had had a week to deal with this threat.

We will be taking all contracts vs citadels. And we would like to test a larger citadel in time.

The thing with keepstars is that they pose a challenge and we like overcoming challenge. I'd rather be hired to defend a citadel than to aggres it but hey we will do what it takes to have fun and earn a crust!

As for the mistake on the first citadel. We dusted off and 15 min later came back to finish the job. You cannot knock that.


Ok thxs for your reply and good luck to both sides, mistakes will happen but you still did the job so all good from your side.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#16 - 2016-05-06 23:29:29 UTC
I assume the citadels put up so quickly by small groups/lone individuals, such as the ones in perimeter, while the market price is still inflated, most likely never had any illusions of them surviving beyond the week.

I think that first one to die will have paid for itself in pure entertainment value, lots of people have docked in it and hovered around it, and it will have been the centre of attention for a few hundred people for three nights.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-05-07 07:01:24 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Luukje wrote:


Easy, hire us. Already working on multiple citadel kills/defence contracts. :)


I watched how you guys handled the Citadel in Perimeter...


https://zkillboard.com/kill/53700492/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/53700474/

...and whored on some of your losses!

Gimme Sake wrote:
The Domi/Guardian group didn't fail in Perimeter, they took the shield down then it entered in reinforce mode. Next day the armor went down and next Sunday the hull will go down. The logi made a mistake, went suspect and that's why they lost those; to the people watching the show and not to the citadel defenses.

Actually it was an epic failure, especially from an "organized" group who shouldn't have made such a simple mistake. There's also a small difference between a undefended Citadel with 7 Million HP and no defence, compared to a Citadel with 108 Million HP, and as my original question states. "Properly defended and properly fitted for Anti-Subcap.."



Then we will know when somebody launches one... Raise donations and have an alt do it just for testing.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#18 - 2016-05-08 02:57:54 UTC
Question for the mercs. Does it require two weeks of wardec to down a citadel?

I've only just noticed myself that it appears like a single week isn't long enough to get it done, given the combined time of the three attacks plus the invulnerability periods in-between.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#19 - 2016-05-08 05:05:59 UTC
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
Question for the mercs. Does it require two weeks of wardec to down a citadel?

Potentially.

Between the vulnerability windows and the horseshit 6 day timer it can take over a week.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#20 - 2016-05-08 11:08:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalashaska Adam
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Shalashaska Adam wrote:
Question for the mercs. Does it require two weeks of wardec to down a citadel?

Potentially.

Between the vulnerability windows and the horseshit 6 day timer it can take over a week.


Does seem like, excluding instakilling anchoring ones, it will always require a 2 week dec, the standard grinding process takes longer than 7 days even if you were to dec at the last possible moment.

I can imagine we find ourselves in a situation where each merc group is waiting on the others to get the shield and armor out of the way, only deccing at the end for the hull layer, given it only provides the killmail to the people there at the end.

Even more extreme, no dec cost at all, turn up in an ibis and take a potshot, get the same killmail that others have spent a week grinding for. I suppose it could be said of all whoring, but in this case you get an exact time a week in advance to turn up and suicide whore. On the plus side it could make the merc groups everyones new best friend.
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