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What is the reasoning behind the watchlist?
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Xuko Nuki
Heralds of Darkness
White Sky.
#1 - 2012-01-13 20:30:10 UTC
Besides virtual stalking? I think I remember this being introduced with the EVE Gate 'expansion' when CCP was making a concerted effort to make the game more like Facebook and AOL instant messenger. In an instant messenger this function makes sense but in the game why should I know when random people 'wake up' on other end of the universe?

You should at least have a certain level of standings with someone before you can watch them, right now nosy people on the other side of the world are checking their watchlist just because they're 'curious' about someone they don't know. EVE already feels like it's too small with the wealth of information available about where people are (local, map, API calls) without this. If anything this tells us a lot about Icelandic culture, where I guess living in 3 family villages makes them extremely comfortable with information sharing while simultaneously more prone to stalking.

As for supposed 'functionality' it's ridiculous being in an Incursion for instance and someone saying "Oh hey, I'm at war but it's no big deal, it's an 8 person corp and I have them all on watchlist." ??? How and why is this how serious space business between two corporations in space should function?

Why can't you fix this while you're busy fixing things?
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-01-13 20:35:31 UTC
Because I want to know when the enemy titan pilot logs on so I can scream at my FC to GTFO before they jump six hundred battleships on our asses.

Dodixie > Hek
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#3 - 2012-01-13 20:38:33 UTC
Overabundance of intelligence is an issue with Eve in general. The watchlist is just one manifestation of this. API stats for 0.0 and wormhole systems, and detailed killmails with damage amounts and the victim's fit are other manifestations. The removal of public standings display was the first step, but CCP needs to be more aggressive about the lack of intel in this "cold and dark world".

They likely won't remove the watchlist (it's an old feature) or any other of these uber-intel tools anytime soon. I would like to see a whole dev effort, if not even an expansion dedicated on putting intrigue and mystery back into Eve.

But that's just me.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-01-13 21:17:28 UTC
It's essentially just a friends list embedded in the contacts stuff. It's a basic feature almost all MMORPGs got. Even before Facebook, Twitter, etc. existed. It can be abused, but so can the friends list in almost any other MMORPG.

As for "Why is it possible to watch WAR targets?": I think the background/story/lore explanation would be the fact that a war won't be considered anything special by any entity in the game. It's only a bribe for Concord to ignore possible attacks. And that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not like a war would establish a special state respected by all the factions, their technology, etc.

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Abominare
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#5 - 2012-01-13 21:21:21 UTC
Uh who cares? I usually have the habit of just having even run in the background all day anyways even if i only play an hour of two, same wiht most of my alliance. Actionable intel isn't exactly abundant. Generally speaking if you're worried that people know you're on then you're obviously terrible at the game.

I suppose it might be nice to know when FC's are on, but to be honest any nonfail corp will have FC's on around the clock, or at least during times they'd need/want to have a fleet up.
Razin
The Scope
#6 - 2012-01-13 21:25:04 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Overabundance of intelligence is an issue with Eve in general. The watchlist is just one manifestation of this. API stats for 0.0 and wormhole systems, and detailed killmails with damage amounts and the victim's fit are other manifestations. The removal of public standings display was the first step, but CCP needs to be more aggressive about the lack of intel in this "cold and dark world".

They likely won't remove the watchlist (it's an old feature) or any other of these uber-intel tools anytime soon. I would like to see a whole dev effort, if not even an expansion dedicated on putting intrigue and mystery back into Eve.

But that's just me.

Being able to opt out of things like showing up in local or on someone's watchlist would be a good start.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#7 - 2012-01-13 21:26:46 UTC
Aethlyn wrote:
It's essentially just a friends list embedded in the contacts stuff. It's a basic feature almost all MMORPGs got. Even before Facebook, Twitter, etc. existed. It can be abused, but so can the friends list in almost any other MMORPG.

As for "Why is it possible to watch WAR targets?": I think the background/story/lore explanation would be the fact that a war won't be considered anything special by any entity in the game. It's only a bribe for Concord to ignore possible attacks. And that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not like a war would establish a special state respected by all the factions, their technology, etc.


OP was talking more about how the watchlists are being abused not as friend lists, but as cheap intel tools of "when to watch out" for people, either offensively or defensively. For example, I have a few of the more active members of the Amarr militia on my watchlist so I can get a quick gauge of how active FW space is currently. Another example would be keeping enemy supercap or titan pilots on your watchlist, so you know if your enemies are doing anything big. Another is adding a freighter pilot you want to gank to your watchlist.

None of those are "friend" settings. I would guesstimate that 9/10 of people in my contacts are not friends, but people I have on my watchlist for tactical reasons.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Xuko Nuki
Heralds of Darkness
White Sky.
#8 - 2012-01-13 21:31:25 UTC
Abominare wrote:

Generally speaking if you're worried that people know you're on then you're obviously terrible at the game.


I am terrible at this game but Petrus is pretty much correct. I'm also wondering why this tool exists at all.
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#9 - 2012-01-13 21:33:18 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Overabundance of intelligence is an issue with Eve in general. The watchlist is just one manifestation of this. API stats for 0.0 and wormhole systems, and detailed killmails with damage amounts and the victim's fit are other manifestations. The removal of public standings display was the first step, but CCP needs to be more aggressive about the lack of intel in this "cold and dark world".

They likely won't remove the watchlist (it's an old feature) or any other of these uber-intel tools anytime soon. I would like to see a whole dev effort, if not even an expansion dedicated on putting intrigue and mystery back into Eve.

But that's just me.


API stats for wormhole systems are partially removed and soon to be removed completely.
Wild Rho
The Riot Formation
#10 - 2012-01-13 21:43:59 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Overabundance of intelligence is an issue with Eve in general. The watchlist is just one manifestation of this. API stats for 0.0 and wormhole systems, and detailed killmails with damage amounts and the victim's fit are other manifestations. The removal of public standings display was the first step, but CCP needs to be more aggressive about the lack of intel in this "cold and dark world".

They likely won't remove the watchlist (it's an old feature) or any other of these uber-intel tools anytime soon. I would like to see a whole dev effort, if not even an expansion dedicated on putting intrigue and mystery back into Eve.

But that's just me.


That's something that's been bothering me for quite some time as well. There's too much information just handed out for free these days with no requirement or effort needed to obtain it.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#11 - 2012-01-13 22:23:46 UTC
Wild Rho wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Overabundance of intelligence is an issue with Eve in general. The watchlist is just one manifestation of this. API stats for 0.0 and wormhole systems, and detailed killmails with damage amounts and the victim's fit are other manifestations. The removal of public standings display was the first step, but CCP needs to be more aggressive about the lack of intel in this "cold and dark world".

They likely won't remove the watchlist (it's an old feature) or any other of these uber-intel tools anytime soon. I would like to see a whole dev effort, if not even an expansion dedicated on putting intrigue and mystery back into Eve.

But that's just me.


That's something that's been bothering me for quite some time as well. There's too much information just handed out for free these days with no requirement or effort needed to obtain it.


nearly every game lets you track logins
how do you consider "X is playing the game to be serious" intel?
if you didn't know they were logged in you would be smart to assume they are, so really what does it change?

oh wait... you're the rabbit and want to hide from the hounds

lol tough!
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-01-13 22:30:02 UTC
I play three other games where I can tell right away if a player logs in - EVE is no different. Whats the issue?

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#13 - 2012-01-13 22:32:40 UTC
Morganta wrote:
Wild Rho wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Overabundance of intelligence is an issue with Eve in general. The watchlist is just one manifestation of this. API stats for 0.0 and wormhole systems, and detailed killmails with damage amounts and the victim's fit are other manifestations. The removal of public standings display was the first step, but CCP needs to be more aggressive about the lack of intel in this "cold and dark world".

They likely won't remove the watchlist (it's an old feature) or any other of these uber-intel tools anytime soon. I would like to see a whole dev effort, if not even an expansion dedicated on putting intrigue and mystery back into Eve.

But that's just me.


That's something that's been bothering me for quite some time as well. There's too much information just handed out for free these days with no requirement or effort needed to obtain it.


nearly every game lets you track logins
how do you consider "X is playing the game to be serious" intel?
if you didn't know they were logged in you would be smart to assume they are, so really what does it change?

oh wait... you're the rabbit and want to hide from the hounds

lol tough!


Or you're the hound and you want to know if the rabbit is outside his hole. It works both ways.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Xuko Nuki
Heralds of Darkness
White Sky.
#14 - 2012-01-13 22:35:30 UTC
Morganta wrote:

nearly every game lets you track logins


Montevius Williams wrote:
I play three other games where I can tell right away if a player logs in - EVE is no different. Whats the issue?



That really doesn't matter. Space is supposed to be 'big' I don't know where my neighbors are in real life. Yet in this game, I can know where anyone is at any time. I think it takes away from immersion and a feeling of mystery, like Rho said.

A sense of the unknown should exist in a space mmo.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-01-13 22:42:12 UTC
Xuko Nuki wrote:
Morganta wrote:

nearly every game lets you track logins


Montevius Williams wrote:
I play three other games where I can tell right away if a player logs in - EVE is no different. Whats the issue?



That really doesn't matter. Space is supposed to be 'big' I don't know where my neighbors are in real life. Yet in this game, I can know where anyone is at any time. I think it takes away from immersion and a feeling of mystery, like Rho said.

A sense of the unknown should exist in a space mmo.


I see what you're saying but you can say the same thing about Azeroth in WoW. Point being, this is a VERY standard MMO feature and taking it away would be a HUGE inconvinience.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Xuko Nuki
Heralds of Darkness
White Sky.
#16 - 2012-01-13 22:45:33 UTC
You could still have it though but with a standings requirement if not giving people an option about who can watch them.

I have a problem with being able to watch anyone really without their consent.
Zleon Leigh
#17 - 2012-01-13 23:06:59 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Because I want to know when the enemy titan pilot logs on so I can scream at my FC to GTFO before they jump six hundred battleships on our asses.


This.. a hedge against way too much power...

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#18 - 2012-01-13 23:45:10 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
I see what you're saying but you can say the same thing about Azeroth in WoW. Point being, this is a VERY standard MMO feature and taking it away would be a HUGE inconvinience.


Knowing someone is online is not the same as knowing where they are.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#19 - 2012-01-13 23:48:10 UTC
I'm sorry but I would like to know when my non corp friends log in. Don't care how someone else uses it...
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#20 - 2012-01-14 03:01:35 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Next you'll complain about locator agents.

Edit: I sort of agree, but I also think that if this was the future and I was flying around in my ship. I'd sort of expect to have this amount of info of the stuff that's happening around my area.
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