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[Citadels] Carriers

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Sekeris
Order of Celestial Knights
#621 - 2016-05-02 15:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Sekeris
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Oxide Ammar wrote:
They need to boost CPU of Chimera and Nidhoggur because both can't go active tanking without going faction/officer fit.


i dont think any of the carriers are meant to active tank


Agreed, they seem to be pushed to FAX support, but FAX are a bit too flimsy still to properly do this role.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#622 - 2016-05-02 15:57:06 UTC
lol flimsy or not they don't have the cap/cpu/pg to do the role

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Sekeris
Order of Celestial Knights
#623 - 2016-05-02 18:18:08 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
lol flimsy or not they don't have the cap/cpu/pg to do the role


Also, lets not forget about cap, even with a pretty cap heavy build you can only run a single RR cap stable, and can potentially run your cap dry in a minute or so.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#624 - 2016-05-02 23:06:19 UTC
Sekeris wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Sepheir Sepheron wrote:
Caldari Support fighters are a joke. 1.5 omni strength for ecm with only 3 fighters per squadron. Did you know that heavy ECM drones have a strength of 2? On top of that the Chimera gets a bonus to ECM optimal as if the strength wasn't insulting enough.


This is only the surface of the support drone issue


Its perfectly functional to jam other fighters, who seem to have a sensor str of 4-8 for a full squad. Both probably need adjusting, as so many more bits of this patch do. At the moment your better off jamming the fighters then the carrier (who will be somewhere arround 150ish)
T2 Light Fighters have a sensor strength of 7 points, per fighter - That's 56 sensor strength per squad, before skills are applied.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#625 - 2016-05-02 23:54:13 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Niddy got a CPU boost (25 extra CPU) - At a cost of 110K PG.

Another CPU increase would see it with too little PG (Devs feel trade off's are the only way to balance) - Don't ask for something that may gimp it more..

Honestly the slight increase in cost for faction or even deadspace (tank mods) is worth it. You may end up with a half decent tank. T2 is too hard to fit, Meta is hardly worth fitting - Faction at least you may survive a few minutes longer.

The Nid actually got 75 more CPU and lost 105k PG. It previously had 700 CPU and 605k PG; now it has 775 and 500k.

Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sekeris wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Sepheir Sepheron wrote:
Caldari Support fighters are a joke. 1.5 omni strength for ecm with only 3 fighters per squadron. Did you know that heavy ECM drones have a strength of 2? On top of that the Chimera gets a bonus to ECM optimal as if the strength wasn't insulting enough.


This is only the surface of the support drone issue


Its perfectly functional to jam other fighters, who seem to have a sensor str of 4-8 for a full squad. Both probably need adjusting, as so many more bits of this patch do. At the moment your better off jamming the fighters then the carrier (who will be somewhere arround 150ish)
T2 Light Fighters have a sensor strength of 7 points, per fighter - That's 56 sensor strength per squad, before skills are applied.

First of all, not everyone will use T2s given their high cost and skill requirements, so a lot of people will have 5 strength. It's also total, not per fighter, and unaffected by skills. That means every squadron of fighters has 5-8 sensor strength and no more.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#626 - 2016-05-03 00:07:54 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:

Sgt Ocker wrote:
Sekeris wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Sepheir Sepheron wrote:
Caldari Support fighters are a joke. 1.5 omni strength for ecm with only 3 fighters per squadron. Did you know that heavy ECM drones have a strength of 2? On top of that the Chimera gets a bonus to ECM optimal as if the strength wasn't insulting enough.


This is only the surface of the support drone issue


Its perfectly functional to jam other fighters, who seem to have a sensor str of 4-8 for a full squad. Both probably need adjusting, as so many more bits of this patch do. At the moment your better off jamming the fighters then the carrier (who will be somewhere arround 150ish)
T2 Light Fighters have a sensor strength of 7 points, per fighter - That's 56 sensor strength per squad, before skills are applied.

First of all, not everyone will use T2s given their high cost and skill requirements, so a lot of people will have 5 strength. It's also total, not per fighter, and unaffected by skills. That means every squadron of fighters has 5-8 sensor strength and no more.



aye and it is either buggy or confusing as hell

basically you can perma jam any squad with no issue at all (using any ecm ship) however it does not break any locks the fighters had before being jammed. so they can't swap targets but they will keep shooting the target they had b4 the jam.


also if the ECM fighters were meant to just jam other fighters as sepheir suggested that makes them one of the most useless things ever. why would i use ECM fighters to sorta jam a squad when i could use superiority fighters to just blow them out of the sky

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#627 - 2016-05-03 00:13:22 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
basically you can perma jam any squad with no issue at all (using any ecm ship) however it does not break any locks the fighters had before being jammed. so they can't swap targets but they will keep shooting the target they had b4 the jam.

Have you tested that recently? The patch notes for the 28th say "Fighters will now correctly shut down their targeted abilities when successfully jammed by ECM effects."
Lugh Crow-Slave
#628 - 2016-05-03 00:21:57 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
basically you can perma jam any squad with no issue at all (using any ecm ship) however it does not break any locks the fighters had before being jammed. so they can't swap targets but they will keep shooting the target they had b4 the jam.

Have you tested that recently? The patch notes for the 28th say "Fighters will now correctly shut down their targeted abilities when successfully jammed by ECM effects."


oh great...... so now carriers really have no chance and are 100% useless so long as as much as one Griffin is on grid (hell just a few ecm drones is going to be a huge threat)


now that pyfa is working i can see dps for these

just over 4k(with faction ddas) for chimera/archon and just over 6k for nid/than(again faction DDA) making them on paper just under/over haw. untill you factor in destroy-able fighters, flight time, reload time ect. I would also like to know why well over 1/2 the DPS of fighters is in the main guns i thought these were supposed to be able to do moderate dps with main guns but use the missiles when really needed.

again CCP please tell us where the hell do you see these gimped capitals fitting into the meta?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#629 - 2016-05-03 00:34:14 UTC
Sekeris wrote:

Also, lets not forget about cap, even with a pretty cap heavy build you can only run a single RR cap stable, and can potentially run your cap dry in a minute or so.

Given how much people complained on the forums about "unbreakable walls of logI", I can't help but think this might be intentional. Reliance on cap boosters will mean that capital reps on field will have a finite duration. If...IF this is intentional, it's certainly an interesting way to address it.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#630 - 2016-05-03 00:39:19 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
basically you can perma jam any squad with no issue at all (using any ecm ship) however it does not break any locks the fighters had before being jammed. so they can't swap targets but they will keep shooting the target they had b4 the jam.

Have you tested that recently? The patch notes for the 28th say "Fighters will now correctly shut down their targeted abilities when successfully jammed by ECM effects."


oh great...... so now carriers really have no chance and are 100% useless so long as as much as one Griffin is on grid (hell just a few ecm drones is going to be a huge threat)


now that pyfa is working i can see dps for these

just over 4k(with faction ddas) for chimera/archon and just over 6k for nid/than(again faction DDA) making them on paper just under/over haw. untill you factor in destroy-able fighters, flight time, reload time ect. I would also like to know why well over 1/2 the DPS of fighters is in the main guns i thought these were supposed to be able to do moderate dps with main guns but use the missiles when really needed.

again CCP please tell us where the hell do you see these gimped capitals fitting into the meta?

I hate to say it, but at the moment pyfa is bugged and doesn't consider stacking penalties on DDAs or FSUs...
Lugh Crow-Slave
#631 - 2016-05-03 00:39:53 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Sekeris wrote:

Also, lets not forget about cap, even with a pretty cap heavy build you can only run a single RR cap stable, and can potentially run your cap dry in a minute or so.

Given how much people complained on the forums about "unbreakable walls of logI", I can't help but think this might be intentional. Reliance on cap boosters will mean that capital reps on field will have a finite duration. If...IF this is intentional, it's certainly an interesting way to address it.


problem is those boosters are useless even on the minm gal fax if there were larger charges to go along with the small ones things would probably be okay.


and those unbreakable walls were do to none triage logi and large numbers not base stats where things functioned just fine in triage and in small fleets

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#632 - 2016-05-03 00:58:13 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
basically you can perma jam any squad with no issue at all (using any ecm ship) however it does not break any locks the fighters had before being jammed. so they can't swap targets but they will keep shooting the target they had b4 the jam.

Have you tested that recently? The patch notes for the 28th say "Fighters will now correctly shut down their targeted abilities when successfully jammed by ECM effects."


oh great...... so now carriers really have no chance and are 100% useless so long as as much as one Griffin is on grid (hell just a few ecm drones is going to be a huge threat)


now that pyfa is working i can see dps for these

just over 4k(with faction ddas) for chimera/archon and just over 6k for nid/than(again faction DDA) making them on paper just under/over haw. untill you factor in destroy-able fighters, flight time, reload time ect. I would also like to know why well over 1/2 the DPS of fighters is in the main guns i thought these were supposed to be able to do moderate dps with main guns but use the missiles when really needed.

again CCP please tell us where the hell do you see these gimped capitals fitting into the meta?

I hate to say it, but at the moment pyfa is bugged and doesn't consider stacking penalties on DDAs or FSUs...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA screw where you think these are meant to go into the meta ccp who do you expect to buy these

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#633 - 2016-05-03 03:25:18 UTC
have no time to read all thread.. am i the only one who think that carriers are too cheap? with the base cost of 800kk we will meet cap roaming and camps every gate.. lol
Sepheir Sepheron
State War Academy
Caldari State
#634 - 2016-05-03 03:36:23 UTC
Sekeris wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Sepheir Sepheron wrote:
Caldari Support fighters are a joke. 1.5 omni strength for ecm with only 3 fighters per squadron. Did you know that heavy ECM drones have a strength of 2? On top of that the Chimera gets a bonus to ECM optimal as if the strength wasn't insulting enough.


This is only the surface of the support drone issue


Its perfectly functional to jam other fighters, who seem to have a sensor str of 4-8 for a full squad. Both probably need adjusting, as so many more bits of this patch do. At the moment your better off jamming the fighters then the carrier (who will be somewhere arround 150ish)


Or you could launch superiority fighters and just blow the other squad up with a less vulnerable and faster squad..
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#635 - 2016-05-03 04:22:26 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
have no time to read all thread.. am i the only one who think that carriers are too cheap? with the base cost of 800kk we will meet cap roaming and camps every gate.. lol

Where are you getting that idea? Carriers are a fair bit more expensive than before, about 1.3b-1.4b to build.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#636 - 2016-05-03 05:33:18 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Teddy KGB wrote:
have no time to read all thread.. am i the only one who think that carriers are too cheap? with the base cost of 800kk we will meet cap roaming and camps every gate.. lol

Where are you getting that idea? Carriers are a fair bit more expensive than before, about 1.3b-1.4b to build.


Even if they are just 800m a full bay of a chimera is 670 mil assuming you don't pie pre load anything into the bays if you do that it can be another 270 mil

But let's ignore that too there are far more effective things that cost less than 800 mil after fitting so no you will not see many fleets of these

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Oxide Ammar
#637 - 2016-05-03 09:20:45 UTC
Can someone explain to me the benefit of scriptable shield hardeners especially to carriers with their tight CPU/PG, they requires more CPU/PG and they suck more than normal ones. Am I missing a point here or what ?

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#638 - 2016-05-03 09:40:14 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Can someone explain to me the benefit of scriptable shield hardeners especially to carriers with their tight CPU/PG, they requires more CPU/PG and they suck more than normal ones. Am I missing a point here or what ?


They are better than faction/t2 hardeners (however they cycle to slow to reliably overheat) they let you pick your resistance (much more useful on the armor when paired with a reactive hardener than on shields) however I still just use deadspace as they are better and easier to fit.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Oxide Ammar
#639 - 2016-05-03 09:52:46 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Can someone explain to me the benefit of scriptable shield hardeners especially to carriers with their tight CPU/PG, they requires more CPU/PG and they suck more than normal ones. Am I missing a point here or what ?


They are better than faction/t2 hardeners (however they cycle to slow to reliably overheat) they let you pick your resistance (much more useful on the armor when paired with a reactive hardener than on shields) however I still just use deadspace as they are better and easier to fit.


Exactly what I'm thinking, deadspace hardeners (Pith X which is much better) around 30 mill except EM one which isn't that costly either. I think I'm gonna skip scriptable hardeners totally.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#640 - 2016-05-03 10:00:45 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Can someone explain to me the benefit of scriptable shield hardeners especially to carriers with their tight CPU/PG, they requires more CPU/PG and they suck more than normal ones. Am I missing a point here or what ?


They are better than faction/t2 hardeners (however they cycle to slow to reliably overheat) they let you pick your resistance (much more useful on the armor when paired with a reactive hardener than on shields) however I still just use deadspace as they are better and easier to fit.


Exactly what I'm thinking, deadspace hardeners (Pith X which is much better) around 30 mill except EM one which isn't that costly either. I think I'm gonna skip scriptable hardeners totally.


They were mostly just ccp saying "I know combat refitting was a fun interesting mechanic this makes up for it right? " but they may see some limited use

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble