Player Features and Ideas Discussion

i brought this up to ccp repeatedly as well as a few others. they seemed to have no interest

EDIT:
we even pointed out how hard it would be to tax refining w/o taxing compression

If you're going to be charging for compression, consider that people can do it in a small POS.

But citadels and stations offer higher refining yields as opposed to POSs and even then high sec POSs have lower yield than low sec ones

I would gladly compress ice in your citadel if it somehow gave me more compressed ore than I originally put in. Assuming that the bonus yield offset the taxes to begin with

But until then I would never bring ore to your specific citadel to compress at a loss when I can set up a small pos anywhere else and just compress there.

No we won't be doing "compression loss" in POSs because the compression mechanic was added to compensate for the old mineral compression system that was necessary for remote industry.

Probably that the money and human effort required to add compression tax is considered a waste since compression is something CCP wants to be widely available and used. Compression is a crucial feature for everyone. Not mainly the people who compress but the people who use things that depend on the ability to ship ores to remote locations.

Which is the reason that compression is not split into yields depending on the facilities, skills and locations. Just 100% instant compression everywhere.



Replaced by those industrial things that will fill the same role but for less effort.

It takes time, money and effort to implement but it's very unlikely that anyone will ever pay compression tax in the end due to the ease of access.

Sort of like if you wanted to add a tax on using the citadels character customization service.



Compression exists because minerals and uncompressed ores are almost completely useless for industry in remote locations like deep null sec due to the very expensive logistics.

For example building say... a Carrier just 20 or so light years out of Jita will add another 20-30% or so in total cost from the fuel alone if done without ore compression.


Compression is the mandatory base to get started on. After that refining is balanced around how much effort you put into the preparations.

You train all the skills and get the implant. If you use a very safe easy to access high sec station then you have to work on standings. Even then the refining rate will be meh.

Setting up a pos will elliminate the need for standings in exchange for personal investment and putting yourself at slight risk from wardeccs.

The next step is a low sec POS which increases the risk and so reward further.

Then comes nullsec player owned stations which has the highest yield but also added risk to compensate.

Later on medium sized citadels placed in low/nullsec will provide the highest bonuses

You can compress anywhere because the result is very mobile. But you only refine where you plan to use the ore. Once turned into minerals, the ore is stuck. Moving minerals around is incredibly expensive in time and effort.

Hence higher risk facilities have better yield to compensate for the risk of building in those areas.

Edit: honestly if all the effort and basis you plan to return is two lines at a time then this is a waste of effort.

Okay, the reason why we need compression tax is that currently with Citadels you have the following options:

- You are in a corp, you put up a POS or a Citadel and compress your ore - this is only viable for a group or a multiboxer, since the fuel will otherwise eat into your profits.

- If you can't put those up, you rely on a third party to put up an open Citadel that you can use for free, since you can't charge for the compression

Since in option 2 the Citadel owner gains nothing and burns fuel to keep things up, it won't be too popular. Best they can hope for is to put up a large Citadel with a market attached and hope people will start selling ore on the spot, but your costs are a lot higher.

So in other words, the feature is only useful for groups larger than a handful that mine regularly - good for nullsec and organized corps, but bad for highsec where you have a lot of casual miners everywhere. If you have a Citadel and are mining with a group, you want to keep it private to avoid competition from random miners that would compress in your Citadel for free.

However, if you could charge for compression, Citadel owners would want to capitalize on the miners by providing the compression service everywhere. They get a small cut, miners get to compress their minerals and earn ISK easier, more compressed ore flows to the markets.

It's a bit like this graph - http://www.freemathhelp.com/images/lessons/graph1.gif . Currently Citadel compression is useful for groups that are on the right side - the large groups, while we are dropping the guys from the left - the numerous solo and small group miners.

And a citadel owner can definitely get away with taxing less than the cost of 100 fuel blocks.

It would have to be a pretty small tax then considering that even 1% tax on 150.000 units of ice is would be over 400 million isk.

Well wirth citadels you do lose about 3 days of fuel every time you online a service