Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

At 50m SP, depending on what you have trained, you could be a lot better at some things than someone at 200m, but at 5m SP, I'm years of training behind you both. The big gap is between 5m and 50m where the basic skills are trained - not the polish skills - I'm not trying to get an extra 5% tracking or whatever, I'm trying to just fit a t2 rail gun on my hull.. When you talk about entry level for basic performance, I guess that really depends on what you do in this sandbox; not everyone wants to kick over sandcastles, but it's still fun sometimes.

The devs may want to encourage people to log in more with daily opportunities, and its hard to argue against it when the most successful MMO in history uses the same technique with great success. My prediction is that most older players are going to use this for alts, while new players will use it on their main characters. Both groups of players will log in each day and both groups of players are on lower SP characters since they get the most benefit at early levels of SP to have a boost - I guess I should have said helping new characters not players...

I'm really perplexed at the opposition to opportunities - they do no harm and only provide a benefit. Sounds like people feel like because it exists it has to be done or they are losing out - you're not - by ignoring opportunities nothing changes for you at all, but if you choose to do them - then you get a bonus. Nobody is going to make you log in every day and do them.

Let me adress your points in reverse order. Whenever an optional reward is introduced it becomes the new norm. Especially when it is as big as 17% extra training speed. There's no you don't have to do it. It's absolutely normative. And that percentage would be even higher for a newer player who has to train skills across attributes and has no good implants. Going from no implants to +5 implants yield 10,800 SP daily by itself. That is with no regards whether you're on the correct remap or not, because you'll always be. My proposition would be better for a newer player for the same reasons that you want these dailies without punishing people that can't log in every day. Moreover, it would be a huge quality of life improvement for everyone. Compare to an "optional" feature that will eventually burn your players out and you get the picture of why people don't like it. Because it's not good.

And yes, it does burn people out. The most successful MMO you mentioned has been hemmorhaghing millions of users for years.

As for achieving SP parity, at around 20m SP you can be 1:1 with someone who has perfect skills in one ship of your choice. We're talking having all relevant skills at, including esoterics like Neurotoxin Recovery V. At that point crosstraining into another ship will take 1-2 weeks or so, complete with its relevant weapons system. If you don't care about polishing skills, you can cut that 20m by about 70-80% depending on what you want to be doing, landing you in the 4-6m SP zone.

And yes, I have gone through this exact process. For example, I starting doing solo frig PvP with Amarr frig 3, Pulse Laser Spec 1, 200k SP in navigation, and overall horrible support skills, but I could still kill some people. Over time I trained up, and I now enjoy much wider engagement profile, but low SP has never prevented me from doing whatever. When I was brand new I moved out to null when I had a grand total of 4m SP. Etc. etc. etc. If you need advice, there's plenty of resources on the forums and youtube, do look around and play! Don't just wait on this abracadabra feature to make things better. Because it won't.

I'm sorry you mentioned your proposition, but I haven't had a chance to read what that was (103 pages). Can you link to it? I just jumped in here at the end to give my feedback to the devs - I didn't read through the whole thread...

I don't like it because of one reason:

It forces You to something, and guess what? If people are forced to something then action connected to that brings discouragement.

Reverse psychology (Julian)

Don't force players, make eve their home where they feel good.

The same goes for drugs war, it's prooven that drugs campaing have opposite effect

It's perfectly reasonable to argue against it when that same successful MMO is the one many of us left to come play this game instead, because, among other things, of a lack of "dailies". We wanted to get away from them, not bring them to EVE.

They harm the sandbox concept of the game by making such a juicy reward for directed game play. And like it or not, "Fear of Missing Out" is a very real thing, and CCP putting in this SP reward very much falls into that category, you can claim its not mandatory all you want, and you'd be technically correct, but as humans many (most?) of us will feel that it is, even when we consiously know that it isn't. I know that these aren't mandatory dailies, but they'll sure feel mandatory. If the reward was isk or LP then it would "feel" a lot more optional, even if it was a unique LP.

CCP knows full well that these dailies will inspire FOMO (fear of missing out), that's why they want to do them in this exact manner.

You're perplexed at the opposition, I'm genuinely perplexed at anyone who favors dailies in this game. It's not what this game is about, and not what this game needs.

Care to show a single MMO that has used dailies to a great effect on a long term scale? Cheap psychological tricks that force peoples behaviour work well when they have no choice (RL where you have to earn money so that your family can eat and things like that) but they do not work on luxury items like gaming. Most of us already have tons of things we have to do and EVE adding to them will lead to burnout as has been shown in every single game that has implemented dailies to artificially boost the numbers for a short while.

The more I think about the prospect of "daily opportunities" the less I like the idea applying to the entire player base and I'll explain why in a moment. However, I do want to call out my support for this idea of rewarding players, but obviously in a different format.

Instead of delivering daily opportunities for the entire player base, evolve this program to better help with the NPE. When I first started playing this game almost 8 years ago, the appeal was in the difficulty of the game and that it was such a vast game with so many options to explore compiled with the thrill of learning how to do them. Fast forward to the new player experience and you have a system that better teaches new players how to get involved with the game, but for no actual reward to them. Thus, enter the opportunities reward system that rewards new players with ships, modules, isk, and skill books like the old tutorials of the past with the addition of SP.

Why would this help the NPE? The NPE is designed to get new guys learning the game at their own pace and giving them the option to get involved where they want to get involved. This means the new guys are going to try out different things; i.e. different aspects of the game. By giving them freebies that are useful like a venture for mining, a racial frig for pve/pvp, a racial frig for exploration and some basic supporting modules to actually give new players the ability to try the activity, you're setting them up to stick around as they can find something that they enjoy in the game and get started doing it much faster than previously before.

Where does the addition of SP come into play? The addition of SP would be the icing on the cake for new players. As they bounce around different career options in EvE, they're going to be picking up new ships and modules to get them started, but they still have to overcome the time barrier that is so unique to EvE. As in all things in life, the best things are the ones you work for. The NPE would now reward new players with SP so that when they complete the NPE opportunity and find that it's something they want to pursue in EvE they now have some extra SP to add to the skills they picked up; i.e. making them better at the activity which should directly correlate to more fun and the desire to keep logging in to play more. Or if on the other hand they finish a NPE opportunity and decide they don't like that activity, they have extra SP to invest into another activity that they do enjoy; i.e. no lost time and no hard feelings/feelings of wasted opportunities.

Overall what effects would this have on the NPE? You would have new players engaging in the game, setting them up with a very basic "survival kit" in game to get them started. They would have ships, modules, and isk to get them on their feet and also enough SP to get more involved in their preferred activity.

Are there any concerns of rewarding new players like this? The biggest concern would be limiting the SP gained. Lets say to complete all of the NPE Opportunities takes 1 month. The total SP rewarded added to the 1 month training should not be over 5mil SP so that alts can't be rolled and farmed as skill injectors. Regarding the ships, modules, and isk, personally I don't see these as being problematic at all. In fact, supporting new guys so that they stick around should be priority number one.

Now, why do I not like the idea of daily opportunities in EvE for the entire player base? The stated goal of this project is to get players logging in as it was measured that logging in to set skills in the past would lead more players to then stay logged in, undock, and do something in EvE. However, as many have already voiced their concerns, this project will only lead to people feeling this is a chore. The changes to the skill queue only highlight the inefficiency of EvE's non-pvp centric activities: there's not a prolific reason to log in, undock, and create some form of content. I’ve been playing this game now for almost 8 years and there have only been a few moderate changes to the PvE content, but even then the content remains 90% the same. Mining hasn’t changed at all, relic/data sites got a makeover on the UI; read mini game, but the overall concept is still the same, missions haven’t changed at all minus the burner missions that never got filled out, industry and PI are still 100% set up, walk away, finish job, collect, and repeat, and the list goes on. Dailies are not dangling a carrot in front of you; they’re poking you in the back with a sharp point while you’re walking in chains. The point is dailies aren’t addressing the issue why players aren’t logging in. It doesn’t have to do anything with setting skills at this point in the game’s 13 year lifespan, but more in line with the fact that many activities are outdated and haven’t received the updates needed to keep them interesting to the “veterans”.

For love of GOD, Satan and ... Aliens! Where All SP comes from???? It comes out of virtual vacuum of New Eden!

Everyone and i'd point out to traders in Jita made free SP over the years only by subbing on only wihtout even undock.. they probably forgot how to do it. Zero risk - huge reward... in 5 years they sell carrier capable pilot on the bazaar and cache in couple of bilions.

Meanwhile newbie drawn to EVE by massive ads for B-R massacre found that he needs to wait for couple of years before can survive and thrive in Null.

One has asked above what is not accessible for new player. here is the list:

1. piracy
2. pvp - (i'd like to see one pvp-ing in T1 fit - for that matter faction mods are out of rech for new player due to their price)
3. missioning (anyone doing L1-L3?)
4. scam - it is not impossible, but very hard if lacking skills
5. Null sec - unless being insignificant meatshield
6. exploration - low skills = slow discovery of overpopulated high-sec

Only viable "profession" is mining.

CCP created SP system becasue of some obsolete reasons and now indeed they are trying to fix something that can't be fixed. I do agree that there is no MMO game that was not screwed with Dailies, but i DO DISAGREE that SP are created from tin air and that's the reason to ban skill trading and dailies, becasue in fact millions of SP were created out of nothing while i was writing this.

I made a lot of SP by not even logging (due to RL) in for 40 days.

Great effing idea! Just make those already risk averse station hockers never undock!




That is alot of bull.... I was doing explorations in low and nullsec I was berely one month old.

If CCP feel they need to introduce a daily reward for playing, then that's a sad situation in itself, because it has to be associated with a realisation that perhaps they can't develop other mechanics for the game that motivate people enough to login.

That is, the game alone isn't good enough to make people want to play it, so instead the approach is to train us like pets by rewarding certain behaviours.

For me it's just a game and I'm happy to bark if needed; because none of it is serious anyway.

However I hate shooting red crosses and I now feel a need to train cyno alts and my industrial characters into some combat skills so they can also earn these rewards, even though those skills are not something I would ever train on those characters.

But, such is the way the game is going I guess. If the plan is to expand the types of activities that make it possible to receive the rewards, then do the whole thing right and do that from the start.