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My ratting carrier got tackled .. well done CCP
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Soul Machines The Initiative. 16,192
Jenn aSide Soul Machines The Initiative. Likes received: 16,192	#21 - 2016-04-28 16:14:24 UTC 2 Atomic Virulent wrote: KM or it didn't happen. Also, as this OP cannot be found on any killboards I'm assuming this was on an alt?? Can't post it here because of forum rules, but I found the killmails on Zkill. Just look for an Oracle (and Gila and Orthrus) killed in H74-BO (Querious) around 21:50 eve time yesterday. Good job OP.

Lady Ayeipsia

BlueWaffe

Likes received: 1,347

#22 - 2016-04-28 16:18:16 UTC | Edited by: Lady Ayeipsia

Pandora Carrollon wrote:

I'm not all that familiar with captials so this is kind of a silly question...

Is this the proper balance?

Should a carrier or other capital ship just be able to quickly down something close in size? (I would think a battleship would qualify as a capital ship just from the modern definition of a capital ship. Maybe it doesn't apply in EVE.)

As a relation, in a modern wet Navy, a carrier is most certainly vulnerable to even a cheap diesel submarine. This is whey they have large escort fleets to sweep the seas and skies clear of threats before they can land on the carrier.

If carriers are intended to be able to fly solo and be highly dangerous, then yes it sounds like it's balanced. If they are supposed to have a need for logistic or support ships around them, it sounds like the pendulum may have swung too far the other way.

So I guess the real question is, what is the intent of these super capital ships?

A battleship in eve would be analogous to the pre-dreadnaught battleships of around 1900. An EVE Dreadnaught would be more analogous to a post HMS Dreadnaught or closer to say the Bismarck.

A carrier is closer to a WW2 carrier such as Yorktown or Hornet. A super carrier is closer to a modern day carrier like the Ronald Regan or George W Bush.

As for the fight, there are other factors. An Oracle is a glass cannon. It has big guns and no real defenses under normal circumstances. It is a battlecruiser and it popping quickly is no surprise. An orthus (if I am remembering correctly) isn't that bit either. So the fight was fairly balanced.

In all honesty, a on eve carrier should probably be able to fight 8 battleships and it be a close fight.

Herzog Wolfhammer

Sigma Special Tactics Group

Likes received: 8,697

#23 - 2016-04-28 16:38:04 UTC

RuthAD wrote:

Last night I was ratting away idiotically not paying attention to intel. A hostile fleet was one jump out and I was oblivious.

A ceptor jumps in and tackles me before I can warp my fat **** out. Pre-patch I would have been more or less screwed, unable to refit and using a not very good fit for defending myself.

Local jumps by around 10-15 hostiles, at this point I'm cursing myself for not watching intel and pretty much given up. I have one squadron of fighters hopelessly chasing a ceptor, then the hostile fleet lands on me. I overheat my rep and hardeners in a vein attempt to last longer.

Then I throw the dice, I recall all fighters, lock up all targets and decide to try and put them all on the biggest DPS ships they have to try and last long enough for a defence fleet to form.

BANG - my first target is an oracle which instapops as my fighters launch their new weapons after almost immediately reaching him with their MWD's. I pull back my fighters and repeat on an orthorus. BANG. Then the gila ... BANG. All three instapopped. At this point the remaining fleet decided it was a bad idea to stick around and they removed themselves from system leaving me to warp safely away with a slight smile spread across my face.

Congratulations CCP. Carriers once again can proudly hold their own against a small fleet, instead of slowly dying unable to do anything once a ceptor tackles them.

On the one hand, I can remember the day so the "SC PWNmobiles" that helped make nullsec suck and ultimately led to nullsec sucking even more later on when the age of the blue donut started.

On the other hand, big ships with high investment and time being taken out by small gangs where after all that SP and ISK you have to choose between sitting there like an idiot or SD is kind of stupid. "Big" should mean something.

Now, if only we could get real with these fake physics and adapt some logic over whether a ship the size of a 747 can web a ship the size of Manhattan.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Vic Jefferson

Stimulus

Rote Kapelle

Likes received: 1,256

#24 - 2016-04-28 17:39:23 UTC

Eh, I'm thrilled you had a good time with the new carriers, but the old ratting carriers weren't actually all that defenseless with a heavy neut and some geckos or lights, especially with a cyno.

I don't know how it is going to play out, but as far as I can tell, ratting carriers are far more vulnerable now, or it seems so. Before, you just light and 5-10 other ratting carriers cyno in and spider tank their way to small-gang immunity. Now large remote reps actually rep more on non-fax carriers than capital remote reps...now instead of a group of ratting carriers being self sufficient, it seems you actually need a few faxes on standby to be able to keep them up.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

3,578
Josef Djugashvilis Likes received: 3,578	#25 - 2016-04-28 18:30:43 UTC Amyclas Amatin wrote: Tomika wrote: Where is the evidence that this actually occurred? Or did I fail to detect extreme sarcasm? I believe him. Carriers are that good now. I would have given you a like, but miner bumping...oh well, the thought was there. I hope you are happy having CODE as your new overlords. This is not a signature.

Amyclas Amatin

SUNDERING

Goonswarm Federation

Likes received: 746

#26 - 2016-04-28 19:23:39 UTC

Vic Jefferson wrote:

You won't need faxes if most hostile fleets die by the time it takes to chew through a well tanked carrier's armor.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Pandora Carrollon

Provi Rapid Response

Likes received: 678

#27 - 2016-04-28 19:26:21 UTC

Lady Ayeipsia wrote:

So the balancing mechanism would be the ISK involved in the combat, not so much the ships definitions of what they are. Interesting. Thanks for the assistance.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP

d0cTeR9

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 389

#28 - 2016-04-28 20:26:51 UTC

RuthAD wrote:

Henry Plantgenet wrote:

damnit i keep reading sarcastic overtones where there are none...
Although a carrier being able to whipe out a fleet several times its worth seems....Strange at best.

So Carriers: 1 Dreadnoughts: -1?

Their entire fleet was probably worth twice as much as my carrier and I only killed 3 of them, worth around 700m, so I don't think it's strange. How many multi billion carriers have been killed by a couple of hundred mil of crap fleets over the past couple of years?

A LOT.

Been around since the beginning.

Yang Aurilen

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,475

#29 - 2016-04-28 21:28:50 UTC

d0cTeR9 wrote:

RuthAD wrote:

Henry Plantgenet wrote:

A LOT.

Now filter in how many of them are NOT afk thinking carrier ratting is like mining in a skiff with an ore hold the size of a cargo expanded charon.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Signature Unknown 3
Elnia Arthie Signature Unknown Likes received: 3	#30 - 2016-04-29 17:24:04 UTC \| Edited by: Elnia Arthie Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!). Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard.

Jenn aSide

Soul Machines

The Initiative.

Likes received: 16,192

#31 - 2016-04-29 17:33:52 UTC | Edited by: Jenn aSide

Elnia Arthie wrote:

Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).

Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard.

Yea, it's ridiculous that a combat capital ship can actually defend itself against ships trying to hold it down so it can be killed. The nerve of that guy doing that...next time he should just give up and die!

Elnia Arthie

Signature Unknown

Likes received: 3

#32 - 2016-04-30 09:15:44 UTC

Jenn aSide wrote:

Elnia Arthie wrote:

Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).

Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard.

Ever heard about those giant combat ship the US Navy doesn't send out alone because they can't do **** against small stuff? It's crazy, just like there could be roles or something and you could not be good in every role with one single ship.

Dani Gallar

Doomheim

Likes received: 78

#33 - 2016-04-30 09:56:39 UTC | Edited by: Dani Gallar

Elnia Arthie wrote:

Jenn aSide wrote:

Elnia Arthie wrote:

Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).

Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard.

Why compare EVE:s made up space ships with IRL US Navy ships ?

If we continue this comparison one Stealth Bomber (EVE:s submarines) should be able to take down a Carrier by their own most of the time.

For me the only thing that matters is balance and one of the best ways to find this is by making a comparison of ISK-value (if all participants have somewhat equal player skill). By doing this you will insure that if a group of players want to take out a 'big fish' they either:

A. Bring several Big Fishes of their own.
B. Bring smaller ships in sufficent numbers to overwhealm the Big Fish.
C. A combination of A and B.

Hawke Frost

Likes received: 211

#34 - 2016-04-30 11:24:13 UTC

Dani Gallar wrote:

Elnia Arthie wrote:

Jenn aSide wrote:

Elnia Arthie wrote:

Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).

Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard.

So you're defending CCP's ever ongoing inability to use logic or achieve balance with the always hilarious "cost is the balancing factor". Carriers becoming better at combat because they lost their RR role is fine and makes sense but right now they're too good and completely ignoring the "bigger isn't necessarily better" thing that is so important for the game.

Sentamon

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 2,368

#35 - 2016-04-30 18:51:16 UTC

Good news! Since carriers can blap subcaps with ease all the "pro PvPer's" are now using them in station games.

I'm guessing this is one of those unintended consequences?

CCP how about raising the redock timer for aggressors to about 30 mins instead of 1? Better yet do away with combat altogether when escape is a single click to insta dock.

~ Professional Forum Alt ~

Shae Tadaruwa

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,747

#36 - 2016-04-30 18:57:36 UTC

Sentamon wrote:

Good news! Since carriers can blap subcaps with ease all the "pro PvPer's" are now using them in station games.

All of them?

How many is that?

If we're going for crazy claims, then let's get the crazy numbers as support.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."


Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire Likes received: 2,368	#37 - 2016-04-30 19:01:45 UTC Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Sentamon wrote: Good news! Since carriers can blap subcaps with ease all the "pro PvPer's" are now using them in station games. All of them? How many is that? If we're going for crazy claims, then let's get the crazy numbers as support. Your train has derailed. ~ Professional Forum Alt ~

Jenn aSide

Soul Machines

The Initiative.

Likes received: 16,192

#38 - 2016-04-30 22:39:24 UTC

Elnia Arthie wrote:

Jenn aSide wrote:

Elnia Arthie wrote:

Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).

Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard.

This is not a game about the U.S. Navy.

violator2k5

Crescent Nova

Likes received: 18

#39 - 2016-04-30 23:58:35 UTC

Elnia Arthie wrote:

Tackled a Thanatos with two interceptors, both nearly died within seconds to his Firbolg I (!).

Quite ridiculous that a carrier can 1) lock them up so quick and 2) is able to hit them so hard.

ceptors are paper thin anyway so its not surprising in the least that they can get hit so hard even if you do use a plated ceptor. As for the locking speed I'm curious as to how fast it was considering the ship scale difference.

Deaths Consortium Pandemic Horde 50
P3ps1 Max Deaths Consortium Pandemic Horde Likes received: 50	#40 - 2016-05-01 00:15:14 UTC 1 Congrats on finding your "i win button" must of been hard controlling all those drones attacking various ships.