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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#5881 - 2016-04-27 17:47:20 UTC
Daniel Ornulf wrote:
counterdropping is not viable or we'd see like ten times more blops on killboards.

this isn't about defending a system, you can't bloody well do anything against these people besides theorycrafting skewed scenarios in your head where you own them

honestly getting fed up with people pretending to be ignorant and posting dumb "solutions" to this; as well as with CCP-s solution of dumping feedback in a thread that gets ignored for years.

great job sweeping it under the carpet.

EDIT:

the concept of EVE is to encourage PvP interactions, right? so, cloaking does the opposite and therefore any means to scan them down would provide new engagements, new content, right? why be against it then? if you don't like pvp, don't live in null, right?


I disagree 100%. It is absolutely viable, if people would actually be in fleet and on comms 100% of the time they are in null. Most hotdrops are on that solo pilot who is derping around on his/her own out of fleet and out of comms. A neutral is in system? Do your PvE in groups in PvP fittings. Problem solved. Null is supposed to be difficult, and supposed to be played in groups. You want to solo PvE? Go back to HS.

It's fairly ignorant to say otherwise.
Daniel Ornulf
Grae Universe Enterprise
#5882 - 2016-04-27 20:20:06 UTC
that makes sense, all you need is dozens of people coordinated and online 24/7 in the same system as the camper to counter that one guy.
this is perfectly doable everywhere and is completely fair and balanced.

I mean it makes sense. after AFK ratting, people now want AFK ganking Lol
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#5883 - 2016-04-27 21:02:34 UTC
Daniel Ornulf wrote:
that makes sense, all you need is dozens of people coordinated and online 24/7 in the same system as the camper to counter that one guy.
this is perfectly doable everywhere and is completely fair and balanced.

I mean it makes sense. after AFK ratting, people now want AFK ganking Lol


You aren't countering one guy, you're countering the fleet you're afraid of him bringing. A fleet of your own is needed to counter a fleet dropping you? The horror!

If he's truly just one guy, you have little to worry about
Daniel Ornulf
Grae Universe Enterprise
#5884 - 2016-04-27 21:26:38 UTC
Quote:
If he's truly just one guy, you have little to worry about


jesu- that's the point, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. you don't know if he's afk, or has a cyno, or his friends are afk and it DOESN'T MATTER. you have to assume he's there because if he is and you start ratting, you will lose your ship, that simple.

you know what? let's remove reinforce timers from poses and vulnerability windows too. because if you live in null your should have a standing capital fleet to defend it, or pack up and get the f out.

no, we can't have a standing fleet during the entire day just for the 2 minutes they decide to form a drop without any warning, it doesn't work like that.

why is it that people measure being hardcore by the time they spend sweating their chairs?
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#5885 - 2016-04-28 13:55:57 UTC
Daniel Ornulf wrote:
jesu- that's the point, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. you don't know if he's afk, or has a cyno, or his friends are afk and it DOESN'T MATTER. you have to assume he's there because if he is and you start ratting, you will lose your ship, that simple.

you know what? let's remove reinforce timers from poses and vulnerability windows too. because if you live in null your should have a standing capital fleet to defend it, or pack up and get the f out.

no, we can't have a standing fleet during the entire day just for the 2 minutes they decide to form a drop without any warning, it doesn't work like that.

why is it that people measure being hardcore by the time they spend sweating their chairs?


/sigh. one more time, if he's a cyno, you aren't countering him, you're countering the fleet he would bring.

The fact that you can't have a standing fleet the entire day tells me flat-out you aren't a big enough or organized enough group to live in null. Any person in a null or WH corp who is online and not in a standing fleet and not on comms should be given one warning and then kicked from corp. You want to live in the more dangerous parts of EVE? Take the steps to protect your space.
Dictateur Imperator
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5886 - 2016-04-28 18:37:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Dictateur Imperator
Isaac Armer wrote:
Daniel Ornulf wrote:
jesu- that's the point, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. you don't know if he's afk, or has a cyno, or his friends are afk and it DOESN'T MATTER. you have to assume he's there because if he is and you start ratting, you will lose your ship, that simple.

you know what? let's remove reinforce timers from poses and vulnerability windows too. because if you live in null your should have a standing capital fleet to defend it, or pack up and get the f out.

no, we can't have a standing fleet during the entire day just for the 2 minutes they decide to form a drop without any warning, it doesn't work like that.

why is it that people measure being hardcore by the time they spend sweating their chairs?


/sigh. one more time, if he's a cyno, you aren't countering him, you're countering the fleet he would bring.

The fact that you can't have a standing fleet the entire day tells me flat-out you aren't a big enough or organized enough group to live in null. Any person in a null or WH corp who is online and not in a standing fleet and not on comms should be given one warning and then kicked from corp. You want to live in the more dangerous parts of EVE? Take the steps to protect your space.



You have no stat about WH life published in real time like 0.0? You can lock all entrence of you're WH by collapse it.
Give same info for WH and 0.0 and give ability to go in you're WH for 5 M isk per ship. count how many time wh life will be fun.

Compare thing is good if you compare thing you can compare, if you like WH go in wh, stop want to impose you're gameplay to other. CCP will nerf perma cloack with observatory and it will be good end of discussion :)


More over be perma cloack to make moral harassment is illegal in a lot of country, and some country have a definition of game mechanic... pro hint: Prma cloack for make harassment is maybe not legal in some country due to defintion of game mechanic, and EULA of CCP don't change this. ( i know a country to be part of game mechanic it must be balance and have a VIABLE counter, you don't see problem with perma clocking really?).
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#5887 - 2016-04-28 20:22:42 UTC
Dictateur Imperator wrote:
You have no stat about WH life published in real time like 0.0? You can lock all entrence of you're WH by collapse it.
Give same info for WH and 0.0 and give ability to go in you're WH for 5 M isk per ship. count how many time wh life will be fun.

Compare thing is good if you compare thing you can compare, if you like WH go in wh, stop want to impose you're gameplay to other. CCP will nerf perma cloack with observatory and it will be good end of discussion :)


More over be perma cloack to make moral harassment is illegal in a lot of country, and some country have a definition of game mechanic... pro hint: Prma cloack for make harassment is maybe not legal in some country due to defintion of game mechanic, and EULA of CCP don't change this. ( i know a country to be part of game mechanic it must be balance and have a VIABLE counter, you don't see problem with perma clocking really?).


"harassment"

how many times have you been killed by someone with a cloak active?
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5888 - 2016-04-28 21:33:48 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Dictateur Imperator wrote:
You have no stat about WH life published in real time like 0.0? You can lock all entrence of you're WH by collapse it.
Give same info for WH and 0.0 and give ability to go in you're WH for 5 M isk per ship. count how many time wh life will be fun.

Compare thing is good if you compare thing you can compare, if you like WH go in wh, stop want to impose you're gameplay to other. CCP will nerf perma cloack with observatory and it will be good end of discussion :)


More over be perma cloack to make moral harassment is illegal in a lot of country, and some country have a definition of game mechanic... pro hint: Prma cloack for make harassment is maybe not legal in some country due to defintion of game mechanic, and EULA of CCP don't change this. ( i know a country to be part of game mechanic it must be balance and have a VIABLE counter, you don't see problem with perma clocking really?).


"harassment"

how many times have you been killed by someone with a cloak active?
How many times have anyone killed anyone, while doing any other activity than PVP?

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#5889 - 2016-04-28 21:37:00 UTC
Lucien Visteen wrote:
How many times have anyone killed anyone, while doing any other activity than PVP?


If someone can't earn ISK and can't kill someone while they are AFK, I'm more than OK with it being in game. AFK cloaking can't earn isk and can't kill anyone.
Daniel Ornulf
Grae Universe Enterprise
#5890 - 2016-04-29 00:24:37 UTC
Quote:
If someone can't earn ISK and can't kill someone while they are AFK, I'm more than OK with it being in game. AFK cloaking can't earn isk and can't kill anyone.


"my cloak isn't hurting you" is the same dumb excuse as putting a knife at someone's throat and "why are you yelling, I'm not hurting you".

if you want to remain in a situation that forces dozens of others to stay on high alert 24/7 then so should you be.

give citadels a mod to slowly scan cloaked players if they don't move for long periods.
Moonacre Parmala
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5891 - 2016-04-29 04:17:08 UTC
Daniel Ornulf wrote:
Quote:
If someone can't earn ISK and can't kill someone while they are AFK, I'm more than OK with it being in game. AFK cloaking can't earn isk and can't kill anyone.


"my cloak isn't hurting you" is the same dumb excuse as putting a knife at someone's throat and "why are you yelling, I'm not hurting you".

if you want to remain in a situation that forces dozens of others to stay on high alert 24/7 then so should you be.

give citadels a mod to slowly scan cloaked players if they don't move for long periods.



Exactly.

If they're cloaked and AFK then they should be at the same risk as sitting in a belt AFK. If you're cloaked and AFK and causing a nuisance then there should be a price, even if it's npc's warping on top of you, disturbing your cloak and then popping your ship for being a pain in the a$$.

If you're scouting / preforming recon/ sneaking up on someone you're not AFK, and i get that sometimes you will have to wait around for a target.... BUT if you're sat in a system, causing people to remain overstressed and on edge whilst you're cloaked and then go AFK....well you're causing significant disruption to others whilst not at risk, and that is the point i'm making. You can cause massive disruption but without any need to do anything, and it isn't "COUNTER-ABLE"

Having fleet protection and rapid response on comms is not a counter to an AFK cloaker. It's a reaction to a valid threat. The fact the person poses a threat by being there is good, they help you keep your skills high, but if they're AFK they're not playing!!!!!!

Law Number III: There are no lazy veteran lion hunters.

Law Number VI: A hungry dog hunts best. A hungrier dog hunts even better.

Law Number XXXVIII: The early bird gets the worm. The early worm....gets eaten.

If in doubt , SHOOT !
Mark Letuse
Darkside Inc.
#5892 - 2016-04-29 09:09:26 UTC
I agree with this statment
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#5893 - 2016-04-29 17:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Isaac Armer
Daniel Ornulf wrote:
"my cloak isn't hurting you" is the same dumb excuse as putting a knife at someone's throat and "why are you yelling, I'm not hurting you".

if you want to remain in a situation that forces dozens of others to stay on high alert 24/7 then so should you be.

give citadels a mod to slowly scan cloaked players if they don't move for long periods.


Choosing to live outside of HS is choosing to be on high alert 24/7.

Why should you get 100% risk free intel (local) in what is supposed to be one of the more challenging parts of space without having to be on alert?

Do you really not stay on alert in null? What if a WH opens up? What if someone is logged off in system waiting for people to get complacent? What if someone has a JC in your station waiting to activate it? What if someone is on the other side of a gate?

You CHOSE to live in an area of space that you own and control. Deal with the consequences of that decision. If you don't want risk, get out of 0.0.

Moonacre Parmala wrote:
Exactly.

If they're cloaked and AFK then they should be at the same risk as sitting in a belt AFK. If you're cloaked and AFK and causing a nuisance then there should be a price, even if it's npc's warping on top of you, disturbing your cloak and then popping your ship for being a pain in the a$$.

If you're scouting / preforming recon/ sneaking up on someone you're not AFK, and i get that sometimes you will have to wait around for a target.... BUT if you're sat in a system, causing people to remain overstressed and on edge whilst you're cloaked and then go AFK....well you're causing significant disruption to others whilst not at risk, and that is the point i'm making. You can cause massive disruption but without any need to do anything, and it isn't "COUNTER-ABLE"

Having fleet protection and rapid response on comms is not a counter to an AFK cloaker. It's a reaction to a valid threat. The fact the person poses a threat by being there is good, they help you keep your skills high, but if they're AFK they're not playing!!!!!!


Except this is completely wrong. An AFK cloaker poses zero threat. The potential fleet they might cyno in is the threat. In null, there is zero excuse to not have a standing fleet ready to counter any threat at any time. That's what comes with owning your own space.

Anyone who gets stressed about a single neutral in null simply isn't taking the steps literally everyone in every nullsec corp should take to make sure they are safe.

With respect, it sounds like you don't really want to live in null. It sounds like you want the benefits without having to defend the space.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5894 - 2016-04-29 18:52:26 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Dictateur Imperator wrote:
You have no stat about WH life published in real time like 0.0? You can lock all entrence of you're WH by collapse it.
Give same info for WH and 0.0 and give ability to go in you're WH for 5 M isk per ship. count how many time wh life will be fun.

Compare thing is good if you compare thing you can compare, if you like WH go in wh, stop want to impose you're gameplay to other. CCP will nerf perma cloack with observatory and it will be good end of discussion :)


More over be perma cloack to make moral harassment is illegal in a lot of country, and some country have a definition of game mechanic... pro hint: Prma cloack for make harassment is maybe not legal in some country due to defintion of game mechanic, and EULA of CCP don't change this. ( i know a country to be part of game mechanic it must be balance and have a VIABLE counter, you don't see problem with perma clocking really?).


"harassment"

how many times have you been killed by someone with a cloak active?


Not to mention the implication that using a cloak is immoral. For the pity's sake.... Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Daniel Ornulf
Grae Universe Enterprise
#5895 - 2016-04-29 18:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Ornulf
LOL talking about risk when sitting safe and cozy in a 30mil ship looking for free kills.

you haven't countered any arguments, just derailed it, now go back to playing the game.

ah right...I forgot...you prefer to AFK

I'm kinda fascinated by the way you guys can lie...it's not actually lying, just ignoring obvious parts of the truth to make your bs argument. must be fun at court rooms
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5896 - 2016-04-29 18:54:26 UTC
Daniel Ornulf wrote:
Quote:
If someone can't earn ISK and can't kill someone while they are AFK, I'm more than OK with it being in game. AFK cloaking can't earn isk and can't kill anyone.


"my cloak isn't hurting you" is the same dumb excuse as putting a knife at someone's throat and "why are you yelling, I'm not hurting you".

if you want to remain in a situation that forces dozens of others to stay on high alert 24/7 then so should you be.

give citadels a mod to slowly scan cloaked players if they don't move for long periods.


He didn't say it didn't impose costs, but that a person utilizing this tactic is not earning ISK nor is he getting kills. This is true and no matter your level of outrage it will remain true.

Now, if you want to discuss this logically and without the Bravo Sierra emotional outburst that might help.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5897 - 2016-04-29 18:59:51 UTC
Moonacre Parmala wrote:
Daniel Ornulf wrote:
Quote:
If someone can't earn ISK and can't kill someone while they are AFK, I'm more than OK with it being in game. AFK cloaking can't earn isk and can't kill anyone.


"my cloak isn't hurting you" is the same dumb excuse as putting a knife at someone's throat and "why are you yelling, I'm not hurting you".

if you want to remain in a situation that forces dozens of others to stay on high alert 24/7 then so should you be.

give citadels a mod to slowly scan cloaked players if they don't move for long periods.



Exactly.

If they're cloaked and AFK then they should be at the same risk as sitting in a belt AFK. If you're cloaked and AFK and causing a nuisance then there should be a price, even if it's npc's warping on top of you, disturbing your cloak and then popping your ship for being a pain in the a$$.

If you're scouting / preforming recon/ sneaking up on someone you're not AFK, and i get that sometimes you will have to wait around for a target.... BUT if you're sat in a system, causing people to remain overstressed and on edge whilst you're cloaked and then go AFK....well you're causing significant disruption to others whilst not at risk, and that is the point i'm making. You can cause massive disruption but without any need to do anything, and it isn't "COUNTER-ABLE"

Having fleet protection and rapid response on comms is not a counter to an AFK cloaker. It's a reaction to a valid threat. The fact the person poses a threat by being there is good, they help you keep your skills high, but if they're AFK they're not playing!!!!!!


Sure you can counter it. Get in the standing fleet. There, countered. You can also look at his killboard and find out when he is most likely ATK and AFK.

And here...let me ask this question:

Does baiting work?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5898 - 2016-04-29 19:01:17 UTC
Stealthy recon ships doing stealthy recon work. The audacity.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5899 - 2016-04-29 19:04:20 UTC
Daniel Ornulf wrote:
LOL talking about risk when sitting safe and cozy in a 30mil ship looking for free kills.

you haven't countered any arguments, just derailed it, now go back to playing the game.

ah right...I forgot...you prefer to AFK

I'm kinda fascinated by the way you guys can lie...it's not actually lying, just ignoring obvious parts of the truth to make your bs argument. must be fun at court rooms


If I am AFK in my cloaked ship...how am I getting "free" kills?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Daniel Ornulf
Grae Universe Enterprise
#5900 - 2016-04-29 19:05:28 UTC
Quote:
If I am AFK in my cloaked ship...how am I getting "free" kills?


"if I hold a knife at someone's throat, why does police arrest me?"