These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Broker and tax
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
The AntiChrist666 Diablo13
Would I lie to you
#1 - 2016-04-27 15:53:52 UTC
With the new update; 'citadel' you get a total reduction of 1,5% in market fees when you have trained both broker and tax skills to a maximum.

1,5% reduction when both skills are level 5, 1.5% reduction....
Skar
Shadow Legion
#2 - 2016-04-27 16:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Skar
From Patch Notes :
*********************************
Market:

Market taxes have been changed:
Broker’s Fee: 3%
Reduced to 2.5% with skills and 2% with both skills and maximum NPC standings
The brokers fee is paid to owners in outposts, is customizable and paid to owners in Citadels
The skill Broker Relations doesn't apply in Citadels
Transaction Tax: 2%
Reduced to 1% with maximum skills
************************************

However....
Broker fee on buy and sell order is now 3% base compared to the old 1%
Transaction fees are now 2% base instead of 1.5%

Overall with MAX skills its a huge increase to the purchase and sale on the bigger items like PLEX etc.

Its now 8% base for a buy and sale for an item instead of 3.5% (I'm talking buying an item and selling that item on i.e. station trading 3%base fee on buy - 3%base fee+ 2%base tax on sale) Note: These are BASE numbers - before skill/standings.

Either prices will have to increase or buy orders will have to be lower. Or both to a degree.
It cannot stay the same.
Pulled all my orders for now and watching.

If i have my numbers wrong i apologise in advance...however i have just looked up some old posts and I think i am right.
Aerilyn Neiliff
Neiliff Shipyards
#3 - 2016-04-27 16:21:15 UTC
The AntiChrist666 Diablo13 wrote:
With the new update; 'citadel' you get a total reduction of 1,5% in market fees when you have trained both broker and tax skills to a maximum.

1,5% reduction when both skills are level 5, 1.5% reduction....


CCP is trying to push traders into citadels. Everyone knows that.
Magnu Stormhawk
#4 - 2016-04-27 17:08:44 UTC
Skar wrote:

Pulled all my orders for now and watching.


Pulled all your orders that you had up at the old broker rates? oO
Skar
Shadow Legion
#5 - 2016-04-27 17:16:30 UTC
Magnu Stormhawk wrote:
Skar wrote:

Pulled all my orders for now and watching.


Pulled all your orders that you had up at the old broker rates? oO


Yeah - I only had a few sell orders up.
Buy orders ive pulled as i want to see what happens with prices - again i didnt have much up i did clear a lot yesterday.

Had i read the patch notes properly i would have cleared everything.
I skim read the patch notes and thought the Brokers fee/Tax applied to Citadels only...
lazy me..

Anyway:
8% station trading buy/sell BASE(before skills/standings) now.
3.5% station tradeing buy/sell BASE(before skills/standings) before patch.


Thats a big hit....lotta adjusting coming.
Tempus Halley
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-04-27 17:49:46 UTC
Magnu Stormhawk wrote:
Skar wrote:

Pulled all my orders for now and watching.


Pulled all your orders that you had up at the old broker rates? oO



I did the opposite. Once I heard of the broker and tax increase 2 months ago, I trained my 2 alts to Accounting 4, Broker 4 and Tycoon 4. When I was disconnected last night by the downtime before the patch, I had no free orders across 3 toons and 90% of my expensive items were up for sale at the pre-patch broker price. Ultimately, I hope to sell at a higher price brought on by the expected increase in margin and did not need to pay the higher broker to place those orders.

For the future, I am training my 2 alts to Accounting 5 so I do not get too hard hit by the tax increase and will probably train them to Broker 5 before I have them put any low margin items up for sale in the future.
Skar
Shadow Legion
#7 - 2016-04-27 18:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Skar
Tempus Halley wrote:

I did the opposite. Once I heard of the broker and tax increase 2 months ago, I trained my 2 alts to Accounting 4, Broker 4 and Tycoon 4. When I was disconnected last night by the downtime before the patch, I had no free orders across 3 toons and 90% of my expensive items were up for sale at the pre-patch broker price. Ultimately, I hope to sell at a higher price brought on by the expected increase in margin and did not need to pay the higher broker to place those orders.

For the future, I am training my 2 alts to Accounting 5 so I do not get too hard hit by the tax increase and will probably train them to Broker 5 before I have them put any low margin items up for sale in the future.


Cool - Wish i had your foresight.
I'm only small fry anyway ;) So not like i lost out bigtime.

The thing about not getting hit too hard... I have Accounting 5 and Broker Relations 4(few days from 5). My standing with Amarr is 7.36(could be a lot higher i know) but all in all im not far from max skills for reducing fees/tax.

Even so im paying 2.37% for broker fee to buy and 2.37% to sell + 1% Trans tax. Thats still 5.74%.
I think it was around 2.4ish% before to buy and sell an item.

What i'm saying is the hit is there max skill or not What? It's quite a nerf to station traders....if any other 'job' in EVE got its costs doubled there would be people screaming from the rafters....but i have hardly heard a peep so far about this.

Anyway, the gap between buy and sell will have to get bigger. I think we will see much bigger gaps between buy/sell orders. Especially for the higher priced items.

I realise Markets are in flux and will settle in time. I'll hang on a bit and look for oppurtunities but very reluctant to dive into anything to be honest.
The AntiChrist666 Diablo13
Would I lie to you
#8 - 2016-04-27 20:03:31 UTC
Aerilyn Neiliff wrote:
The AntiChrist666 Diablo13 wrote:
With the new update; 'citadel' you get a total reduction of 1,5% in market fees when you have trained both broker and tax skills to a maximum.

1,5% reduction when both skills are level 5, 1.5% reduction....


CCP is trying to push traders into citadels. Everyone knows that.


yes it is f*n ******** how it goes like that, they really have no clue that this will create a single super power in the game again in the future.
The strongest is capable of taking control of the market and wiping out the competition by just declaring war and these incompetent f*s CONCORD are just brain dead eating their asses, therefore they will generate all the money from the market hubs and will make them even more powerfull.
And when everything is **** and people are complaining about it than CCP will come with arguments about how personal conflicts within those superpowers will eventually divide the market and bring balance once more...Roll

If they don't come up with solutions in high sec to to deal with such problems, eve online will be soon a dead wasteland with ******** f*s and sociopathic incompetent delusional "human beings" roaming around.

Just look at CODE about what they do and where they are, CONCORD doesn't give a ****, f*g bandits in front of Jita main hub station waiting to blow merchants up, 'IN FRONT' of the station gate, what does CONCORD?

What this basically means is the basic concept of these **** is just waiting in front of the gate, literal, and CCP is now inviting those opportunities inside, in my eyes the last stronghold that kept those weirdo's full of hate out is now beginning to fall.

Mark my words, like this, eve online will be a dead wasteland sooner or later full of delusional clowns that want to share their hate and sarcasm with you.
If not, I hope so, because that would be allot of time and effort wasted in this, than in my eyes maybe a small miracle has taken place.

Anyway I hope I am wrong and things will get more fun in the near future with this new ideas implanted into the game.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#9 - 2016-04-27 20:43:32 UTC
Aerilyn Neiliff wrote:
The AntiChrist666 Diablo13 wrote:
With the new update; 'citadel' you get a total reduction of 1,5% in market fees when you have trained both broker and tax skills to a maximum.

1,5% reduction when both skills are level 5, 1.5% reduction....


CCP is trying to push traders into citadels. Everyone knows that.


Too little, too late. Large citadel needs 15 days to get built, and then an additional 24 hours to get anchored. By the time there's a citadel market up and running, everyone would have already adjusted to the new taxes.
Amy Inhibenson
Living Off The Land
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#10 - 2016-04-28 04:28:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Amy Inhibenson
The AntiChrist666 Diablo13 wrote:
snip


Pretty much
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#11 - 2016-04-28 04:39:02 UTC
from what I see, these tax increases will mostly affect market playas, speculators and manipulators. IMHO: these people are the bane of EVE, they're simply producing nothing and providing nothing.

it'll be interesting to see what happens in the long term.

I agree, however, that whichever alliance can put up 'New Jita' first will make a huge windfall, even if it's at the old market rates.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations
#12 - 2016-04-28 06:05:32 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
from what I see, these tax increases will mostly affect market playas, speculators and manipulators. IMHO: these people are the bane of EVE, they're simply producing nothing and providing nothing.

it'll be interesting to see what happens in the long term.

I agree, however, that whichever alliance can put up 'New Jita' first will make a huge windfall, even if it's at the old market rates.

trading has always been a part of eve and calling the players who take part in that aspect of the game, the bane of eve is a joke. Whenever a player has something to sell and needs isk quickly, the so called "bane of eve" are the ones who provide it. This pretty much has always helped new players make more isk besides running missions or mining.

I realize that the 0.01isk game is something a lot of people hate when it comes to marketing and assume that its mostly bots however a lot of players play that game with marketing so what some assume to be bots could possibly be multiple people playing that game.

With regards to the citadels and players flocking to them to create the new jita, I really think it would be great, yet I dont see it happening. Players are to fixated with the current system jita to the point where its the main "goto" point for buying and selling and at the moment some players may be confused or pissed with the new tax percentages but will soon adapt as has been seen time and again in the past.
Redneck Herman
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-04-28 07:40:45 UTC
I foresee Jita not going anywhere.

This change has made trading too expensive and killed market pvp atleast for me.

Absolutely needs to go.
Tarucin
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-04-28 10:41:48 UTC
I came back to EVE after a very long hiatus after hearing about this war.

I came back started with a mining corp in high sec, while I train up my character. I am an industrialist. I make items I sell them I mine.

I started training up trading skills as I made more from sell orders when listing the items I produced.

Now?

I make nothing, the only thing that makes me money is selling minerals. I have no incentive to manufacture because of taxes and I can't use my corps POS because we get wardecced by pirates.

So now the only way I can make ISK in this game is running L4's or Ratting.

I thought CCP wanted to give the players a sandbox and see what they do. They seemed to have gone backwards on this by adding these awful tax rates and trying to force players into a Citadel.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#15 - 2016-04-28 10:59:27 UTC
Tarucin wrote:
I came back to EVE after a very long hiatus after hearing about this war.

I came back started with a mining corp in high sec, while I train up my character. I am an industrialist. I make items I sell them I mine.

I started training up trading skills as I made more from sell orders when listing the items I produced.

Now?

I make nothing, the only thing that makes me money is selling minerals. I have no incentive to manufacture because of taxes and I can't use my corps POS because we get wardecced by pirates.

So now the only way I can make ISK in this game is running L4's or Ratting.

I thought CCP wanted to give the players a sandbox and see what they do. They seemed to have gone backwards on this by adding these awful tax rates and trying to force players into a Citadel.



They are not trying to force players into citadels.

The tax rise has two purposes.

1) to provide an isk sink

2)to allow citadel owners to actually undercut NPC stations at all. Undercutting 0.187% would have been pointless.

What you are seeing on the markets right now is people not adjusting to the new taxes, so, for now margins are negative.

However, the sky is falling version is "Profit margins will forever remain negative because no one is smart enough to maths the minimum margin needed"

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Fin Udan
Doomheim
#16 - 2016-04-28 11:04:41 UTC
Eve is going through interesting times particularly for the trading community.

It will be interesting to see if a viable low cost freeport can be established.

The owner ofc would become extremely rich.

I trade Eve Mogul
Jay Aaron
M-Spec Industrial Resources Ltd
Agents of Fortune
#17 - 2016-04-28 14:16:01 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
from what I see, these tax increases will mostly affect market playas, speculators and manipulators. IMHO: these people are the bane of EVE, they're simply producing nothing and providing nothing.

it'll be interesting to see what happens in the long term.

I agree, however, that whichever alliance can put up 'New Jita' first will make a huge windfall, even if it's at the old market rates.


Quite to the contrary, market traders provide a vast, substantial and invaluable service to the community. We go to great effort to research the goods we trade in order to develop an understanding of their fundamental use, need and economic value. We buy up excess stocks when goods are oversupplied, release our inventories for sale when goods are undersupplied, and move inventories from system to system, region to region, all in an effort to assure stable and equitable supplies and pricing. We selflessly give back to you, the EVE community in this way.

As I see it, the higher taxes and fees are really no big deal. It's a simple matter of adapting to the wider spreads needed between bid and asked prices in order to account for the increased transaction costs. As Rhrivre pointed out, the rise will open the door for Citadels to at least have a chance to garner a small portion of "the market for markets". I doubt Citadels will replace, or even heavily impact the volume of trade conducted through major NPC trade hubs, though. Current hubs are too hugely imbedded in their roles for mass exodus to be at risk, and also, Citadels are vulnerable structures... how much of your inventory would you want to put at risk warehoused in one?
Fin Udan
Doomheim
#18 - 2016-04-28 14:39:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Fin Udan
Jay Aaron wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
from what I see, these tax increases will mostly affect market playas, speculators and manipulators. IMHO: these people are the bane of EVE, they're simply producing nothing and providing nothing.

it'll be interesting to see what happens in the long term.

I agree, however, that whichever alliance can put up 'New Jita' first will make a huge windfall, even if it's at the old market rates.


Quite to the contrary, market traders provide a vast, substantial and invaluable service to the community. We go to great effort to research the goods we trade in order to develop an understanding of their fundamental use, need and economic value. We buy up excess stocks when goods are oversupplied, release our inventories for sale when goods are undersupplied, and move inventories from system to system, region to region, all in an effort to assure stable and equitable supplies and pricing. We selflessly give back to you, the EVE community in this way.

As I see it, the higher taxes and fees are really no big deal. It's a simple matter of adapting to the wider spreads needed between bid and asked prices in order to account for the increased transaction costs. As Rhrivre pointed out, the rise will open the door for Citadels to at least have a chance to garner a small portion of "the market for markets". I doubt Citadels will replace, or even heavily impact the volume of trade conducted through major NPC trade hubs, though. Current hubs are too hugely imbedded in their roles for mass exodus to be at risk, and also, Citadels are vulnerable structures... how much of your inventory would you want to put at risk warehoused in one?



I would be quite willing to 'gradually' and over a period of time move my trading operation to a viable Citadel.

My costs have tripled since the patch so I would be keen to explore viable reduced costs options.

I trade Eve Mogul
Skar
Shadow Legion
#19 - 2016-04-28 15:19:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Skar
Jay Aaron wrote:
snip..


+1

Agree with everything you said.

Margins will have to widen to accomodate the new fees/tax. This will happen and it will happen naturally over time - as in real life markets.

Personally i feel the Devs may have an over inflated view of what Citadels will become and also how much of an impact Citadels will have. However, thats just me looking at the future and calling it as i see it. I may well be incorrect, but i think not.
I find them very underwhelming - i can of course see the excitment for the Corps building them.
I'd be very surprised if any of the hubs were actually affected in anyway due to Citadels.

Anyway, i'm gunna hang up my traders hat for a week or three and actually have some fun for a change... away from the lists of figures.

Fly safe.Cool or not.Pirate
The AntiChrist666 Diablo13
Would I lie to you
#20 - 2016-04-28 16:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: The AntiChrist666 Diablo13
Jay Aaron wrote:
Citadels are vulnerable structures... how much of your inventory would you want to put at risk warehoused in one?




The problem here is, when a player owned citadel gets blown up to pieces, all the assets inside will magically be transferred to the nearest NPC station or to another citadel of the same corp nearby if the the destroyed citadel if from the same corp you are in, something like that, nothing get lost when a citadel is blown up, except for it's structure

They are really killing off NPC trading stations, they want to give more power to the people instead of NPC, which is not bad but there are limit's imo, just look at CODE, just an 'example' of what people can do when they can 'do what they want' in a distant extend, is that good? is that what we want? paying contribution to a club of delusional perverts so we can mine in peace?

Taking away custom offices from the NPC and give it to the players, doesn't sound bad, so why are all taxes at max and none is competing with each other? wink wink

To keep it short, CCP has no problems with creating opportunities for delusional and sociopathic people to have a grip on this game to create large impacts on it.

Not sure if CCP want to generate more $ from subscription or want to scare people away, we all know why people avoiding this game, it's not only for it's complexity.
12Next page