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Hub Zero - An NPC Null-Sec Trade Hub and Blue Community

Author
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2016-04-26 21:24:59 UTC
Aaron wrote:


You make some good points Bobb. I would also add that the amount of ship loss occuring in Stain has created a demand that hasn't yet been realised. Maybe it is a bit like the chicken and the egg? A strong market means nothing if there's no one around to buy the goods, so which issue do you work on first? pilot numbers or seeding the market?

So far I have grinded and mined enough resources to build and sell stuff from my almost complete t1 blueprint selection, sales have been ok and on lots of the stuff I sell I have no competition region wide.

I would like to be part of a community where I see a few guys in Prospects avoiding and gatecrashing hostiles so that they can fill mineral buy orders for the community. I'd like to see adventurous pilots actually carve out space for themselves. I want to see lots of little guys working together for the better of the community.

Generally what I'm saying is that there isn't really a set way to build a market which will work in every scenario.


But there are things that a market does need.

The first is demand. Stain has very very little of this.
The second is supply. Stain has very very little of this. Stain is extremely far from any trade hubs, so even JF travel out there is extremely difficult.

But the big one is not building it in the middle of a neighborhood where walking down the street is an invitation to shank your ass. Dear old granny wont go down to the grocery store if she knows homeless hobo Bob who lives next door to the grocery store makes a habit of clubbing people to death just outside the exit. And Stain is a whole region of club wielding hobo Bob's.

P.S: T1 is trash. A market with only t1 is practically a nonexistent market.
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#22 - 2016-04-26 21:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Sustrai Aditua
The Sam Walton of EVE, eh? All for public service enterprises require funding. I don't think dear old Sam was much into charity, not even for his own employees. Cutting deals with countries that have questionable human rights records seems key in being able to strike that bargain, as well - overlook humanity once again...for the good of the enterprise, of course.

Two things make Jita what it is. 1.) It's in high sec. The security response is free. (Anyone recall CONCORD having to replace a ship w/fittings?) 2.) All you pay to market there is the list of usuals you'd pay at any NPC station - taxes/escrows/fees. (You certainly don't pay a third party for their expenses incurred while innocently keeping the store open - obstensively.)

The focal point for PvP hook-ups is a new wrinkle here, I guess. It's similar to the bulletin board for bands you'd find in your local Guitar World. But, I'm guessing you'd perform for free? I see a membership fee and monthly dues hovering around this somewhere, which is of necessity of course, and also where most skimming occurs. Which brings us to the main issue. Unless you're sitting on that proverbial trillions of ISK you just can't find a way to spend, this is a for profit venture. As such, as it's advertised, it has Ponzi written all over it.

Open a store the old fashioned way, Sam...er....Aaron is it? (People seem to know you....) Buy up everything in Jita, haul it in freighters to your "new location". Put it up for sale at cost. Do like Sam does. Get your trucks to those manufacturer's loading docks, and instead of it winding up in Jita, ship it to Home Sweet Home. Presto! Trade...well, it can't be a "hub" per se, unless the same traffic phenomena occurs.

There are a couple of those leading into null sec, and just one of note in null sec proper. None of these are in Stain, SO!
There goes that "hub" part. Already we're dealing with misrepresentation just in the subject lines.

Great start! Good luck with that.

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.

Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#23 - 2016-04-26 22:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Sustrai Aditua wrote:
The Sam Walton of EVE, eh? All for public service enterprises require funding. I don't think dear old Sam was much into charity, not even for his own employees. Cutting deals with countries that have questionable human rights records seems key in being able to strike that bargain, as well - overlook humanity once again...for the good of the enterprise, of course.

Two things make Jita what it is. 1.) It's in high sec. The security response is free. (Anyone recall CONCORD having to replace a ship w/fittings?) 2.) All you pay to market there is the list of usuals you'd pay at any NPC station - taxes/escrows/fees. (You certainly don't pay a third party for their expenses incurred while innocently keeping the store open - obstensively.)

The focal point for PvP hook-ups is a new wrinkle here, I guess. It's similar to the bulletin board for bands you'd find in your local Guitar World. But, I'm guessing you'd perform for free? I see a membership fee and monthly dues hovering around this somewhere, which is of necessity of course, and also where most skimming occurs. Which brings us to the main issue. Unless you're sitting on that proverbial trillions of ISK you just can't find a way to spend, this is a for profit venture. As such, as it's advertised, it has Ponzi written all over it.

Open a store the old fashioned way, Sam...er....Aaron is it? (People seem to know you....) Buy up everything in Jita, haul it in freighters to your "new location". Put it up for sale at cost. Do like Sam does. Get your trucks to those manufacturer's loading docks, and instead of it winding up in Jita, ship it to Home Sweet Home. Presto! Trade...well, it can't be a "hub" per se, unless the same traffic phenomena occurs.

There are a couple of those leading into null sec, and just one of note in null sec proper. None of these are in Stain, SO!
There goes that "hub" part. Already we're dealing with misrepresentation just in the subject lines.

Great start! Good luck with that.


Don't have time to respond to all of your points, all I can say is that for me it is not all about money. It's more about the story and having a game that i can put onto impossible setting and still try to achieve something. That's what I do with any game I buy it gets put on the hardest setting and I try to complete it.

Good Luck o7

Believe it or not and I know it sounds weird to you, but this venture is seriously my idea of fun.

Getting a JF to bring stuff here from jita isn't a worry for me. My concern is if a group of solo pilots and corps can work together for the purpose of making the area safe and inviting more people to join.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#24 - 2016-04-26 22:45:07 UTC
Aaron, you should just join an alliance. Loose coalitions don't work.

Good luck anyway, and good to see you back.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#25 - 2016-04-26 23:11:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Moac Tor wrote:
Aaron, you should just join an alliance. Loose coalitions don't work.

Good luck anyway, and good to see you back.


Hi Moac, Hope you're well.

It depends on perspective. Your heart is in building an alliance which is very cool, also consider that there are lots of folk who like solo-play but can see the benefit of having a blue they can call upon to help out with a 10/10 for example.

Eve could do with a friendly null sec community who want to keep it simple and non-imposing.

Looking back on the time we flew together I can see where we went wrong, during some of our convo's you would actually say you were not here for Hub Zero, and most of what you said was aimed at creating an alliance which is in-fact what you did you created Stain Confederation which all of the Hub members at the time joined. Loose coalitions won't work for you because it is not what you want.

Anyone involved in this has got to understand this venture is mostly for the hard headed little guy who likes the game and wants to play solo within a blue community, or perhaps small corps with 2 or 3 real life friends with no plans of becoming a mega corp and happy to be blue with other friendly guys. We can bullshit on comms, do some pve and pvp and endevour to make a home for the easy and cool folks in Eve.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Maker Atavuli
Atavuli Exploration Society
#26 - 2016-04-27 08:20:26 UTC
If stain is still as dead as it was you would be better off in a wormhole with all the kspace connections closed. I wish you luck. I think most people are right about loose alliances, and good ol boy agreements not working. It would be pretty easy to get awoxed if your not running security checks and insuring that the folks you fly with are who and what they claim to be. I would hate to be in a supposedly blue fleet in a ratting ship when that cyno lights up.... You stated that you didn't want to be thought of as a leader. Null systems in simple terms must be held by force of arms. How do you propose to mount a home defense fleet with no leadership? Assuming your defense strategy is more than OH S*** neutral dock up! Is your chosen system in BLOPS range of anywhere? What would keep someone from taking your system after you fill that market up? It's a really neat idea honestly but this is EVE. With your strategy and not being a SOV holder all you need is one unknown toon parked in your station to ruin your system for anything but ship spinning. Your only real defense is a nice quiet system in the armpit of the universe. That will work until a scout checks DOTLAN and sees all that juicy care bear goodness going on. You might be better off renting a system somewhere, at least you could have some control over who can dock up. As well as the benefit of being behind an actual military entity. Controlling a system is hard when you have bodies interested in fighting. It will be a true feat if you can wrangle a bunch of care bears into camping your gates to maintain security while their buds are out sucking up DED sites. Please let us know how this turns out.

I am NOT crazy they made me take my medication this morning!

Loki O'Grady
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-04-27 08:22:28 UTC
So can someone fill me in on what happened to the last Hub Zero? Or was it much the same as the others? Not trolling, only recently resubbed and didn't follow the last thread while I was away.

10/10 for persistence, I gotta say though, Aaron.
Jimbo Thrasher
Extragalactic Engineering
#28 - 2016-04-27 17:08:13 UTC
Good luck this time around, I hope things workout in a way you're satisfied with. I have you to thank Aaron, for introducing me to stain last episode. I'm still living out here and enjoying the heck out of it.

I tend to agree with Moac regarding loose coalitions. Depending on how many people are interested in the endeavor, standings management can become quite tedious.
Valrandir
Senex Legio
Manifesto.
#29 - 2016-04-27 17:54:51 UTC
Welcome back, and good luck.

As for the chicken and the egg, build the market first.
Setup a logistic chain, and include T2.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#30 - 2016-04-27 22:21:21 UTC
Jimbo Thrasher wrote:
Good luck this time around, I hope things workout in a way you're satisfied with. I have you to thank Aaron, for introducing me to stain last episode. I'm still living out here and enjoying the heck out of it.

I tend to agree with Moac regarding loose coalitions. Depending on how many people are interested in the endeavor, standings management can become quite tedious.


Hey Jimbo, nice to read you again.

Hey no worries man, Stain is a cool place when you're prepared to adapt as you have seen.

Regarding loose coalitions, I thought back to when Neo first met the Oracle in the film The Matrix, "Know Thyself" was what was on the sign above the door, which is an Ancient Greek aphorism.

I've studied myself and the feelings that influence my thoughts and motivate my actions and I realize that I'm exactly where I want to be. Alone in a quiet area. I'm willing to accept this as my game-play and it would be pointless me joining a bigger corp or alliance, I'd just annoy them because my heart is in being alone in Stain.

Perhaps this could be the reason why previous attempts haven't worked. The people I was with before, their heart just wern't in it. I suppose my failures on previous attempts have helped me define what type of person I am looking for to help me with this, the first men/women will be resourceful, typically a solo player, happy being alone, adventurous, not afraid to cloak up at times, not easily phased, happy to occasionally work with people who have a similar attitude.

I know the going may be slow but with a handful of the above type of people I think we will be able to make it into something that will appeal to a larger base of people.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Scott Kerman
Foxholers
Outfoxed
#31 - 2016-04-27 22:25:17 UTC
Stain? The area is littered with hotdroppers, but since it is neutspace you could try. Just watch out, since my nullsec alliance and coalition live right next door and you never know if we will go on a hotdrop run...

CAPSULE EJECTED

Kill report available.

Notification from Pend Insurance Inc.

Briar Thrain
Arcana Noctis
#32 - 2016-04-28 03:31:09 UTC
IMHO a random assortment of solo players will never accomplish something like this because any player efforts toward the goal will be half assed or unfocused. That is the reason people form corporations / alliances - a group of people working towards some goal. Doing something like this requires people persistently doing tasks, and being in a structured group allows those orchestrating the show to assign jobs to people to get things done. Until you are willing to form a formal group with leadership and assemble people willing to be part of that this will not come to pass.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#33 - 2016-04-28 07:23:18 UTC
I'm starting to suspect that Aaron is pawn of Sansha. Luring capsuleers into their space to be assimilated! ShockedBlink
gnshadowninja
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2016-04-28 08:18:50 UTC
Will be keeping an eye on this, good luck
lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2016-04-28 10:42:38 UTC
Persistent with the Hub Zero eh? I remember this from a coupe of years back. What happened to the last one?

Good luck anyways!
flakeys
Doomheim
#36 - 2016-04-28 15:18:09 UTC
Aaaaaand here we go again.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

flakeys
Doomheim
#37 - 2016-04-28 15:21:09 UTC
Demica Diaz wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Hub Zero, I'm your host Aaron.

The goal of Hub Zero is for the brave pilots of Eve to come together and build a trade hub and blue community in an NPC Null sec area called Stain. This venture requires a good level of teamwork in order to achieve success.

Many of you know I have attempted this a few times and failed, I would like it to be different this time. I'd like for anyone coming down to be committed to the cause and happy to work with a community based on fairness and trust.

Please please do not join us if you are under the impression you can roll us all up into a corp or alliance that is not what this venture is about. Its about having your independence and having blues you can request assistance from if needed and contributing to a cool community.

I'd like to make it clear that I don't want to be seen as a leader, I will set some fair guidelines on how we are to operate as a community. So for example; with regard to fleet command/defence we will have a mailing list where fleet commanders can contact all Hub members and solicit wingmen for their pvp ops. Anyone will be free to use or sharpen up their FC'ing skills with the help of the community. All the guidelines will be cool and friendly and aimed at having fun and giving everyone a chance to shine.

This venture will be open to everyone who is committed and would like to get out of their comfort zone.

I'd like to warn prospects that this thread will be heavily trolled, try your best to ignore it and don't let it affect your decision to get involved. Working together we can unlock the true power of solo and independent pilots and corps.

This could be an epic adventure if you would like to play along, Stay Tuned!!! Big smile


I remember you from year or so back when you talked about this aswell. If it is not a secret, what went wrong?



This is not his second attempt , i believe it is his fourth , he tries it once a year or so.Allways ends up in drama but hey at least i can now follow something on the forums again.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

flakeys
Doomheim
#38 - 2016-04-28 15:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Mr Epeen wrote:
If nothing else, Aaron, you are tenacious.

If EVE were Die Hard, you'd be the John McClane character. You just don't let go. No matter how many are against you and how many setbacks you have, you keep on keepin' on.

Respect.

Mr Epeen Cool


I've told him last time that there is a thin line between being persistent and being stubborn Blink.


Loki O'Grady wrote:
So can someone fill me in on what happened to the last Hub Zero? Or was it much the same as the others? Not trolling, only recently resubbed and didn't follow the last thread while I was away.

10/10 for persistence, I gotta say though, Aaron.



He said drac wasn't going to join at the start if i recall right , then drac joined and eventually it turned into the same drama as the previous attempts.He tries it every year and so far every year it's going worse then the attempt before.

2010 attempt and this was the one before that 2009 attempt, the 2010 linked is the follow up from the same one i believe

2015 attempt

2014 attempt

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#39 - 2016-04-29 00:31:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Briar Thrain wrote:
IMHO a random assortment of solo players will never accomplish something like this because any player efforts toward the goal will be half assed or unfocused. That is the reason people form corporations / alliances - a group of people working towards some goal. Doing something like this requires people persistently doing tasks, and being in a structured group allows those orchestrating the show to assign jobs to people to get things done. Until you are willing to form a formal group with leadership and assemble people willing to be part of that this will not come to pass.


Uggggh, gimmie a break buddy. I left work 7 hours ago.

All of what you're talking about seems a bit too corp/alliance, I'd like to push a more relaxed approach. Why does everyone seem to be in such a rush?

I see it like this, If there's 5 or 6 blues down here getting on reasonably well a using a mailing list all of us can just chill doing our own thing posting intel and so on then one of us finds a 10/10 which a couple of us join and complete. We've all made a bit of money so its all good. Next day we find one of our blues is being attacked so we chat then fit up some ships try to fight them if we win hooray, if not have a look at where we went wrong and what could be done better.

I for one would be happy to be a wingman, inform me of the op in advance give me some required ship types and I'm there to drop some dps for ya. The mailing list is there use it to organise an op and I for one will be there to support you. I know a clear leadership structure is great for some but for others maybe not so much.

So to put it in simple terms all Hub Zero needs for the moment is just some blues chillin here, Lets just slow it down a bit and get to know each other first before we talk about assigning tasks, and structured groups and orchestrating the take over of Stain.

So,*rubs hands together* Market Banter!!!! for all you doom and gloom guys who think T1 is useless crap. I sold approx 60 million of the crap in 2 days I'm encouraged by this and will maintain it very well. Stain residents are forced to use whatever is available, this is the ghetto which I want to help regenerate and create opportunities. So HAHAHA in the past 2 days you have been wrong about T1 stuff. lol

Chat soon.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#40 - 2016-04-29 00:50:05 UTC
5 or 6 guys just chillin' doesn't require a thread on the forums.
60 million in 2 days.
/me adjusts goggles





Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.