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BS Repairer ammount bonus - 80% useless
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Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#1 - 2016-04-25 23:44:23 UTC
When we take this type of BSs in a 5+ pilots fleet we always expect to face DPS that no active tank ship will handle without remote reps. So this bonus is totally useless for Tec1 BSs in fleets.

Someone probably will say - hold on, what about solo pvp. Lets just remember what people think when they see Hyperion flying solo. "it has two reps, we need DPS or neuts". Or Deimos.. "it tanks a lot we need DPS or neuts".
Ships with this bonus are too predictable in solo and totally useless in fleets.
So amarr & caldari have 3 fleet BS lines while gallente & minmatar only 2.

What about replacing this bonus with 7.5% (or other number) armor/shield ammount, so it will look good in line with amarr/caldari BSs with 4% resist bonus.
I'd rather replace this bonus on all subcapital ships except Marauders, as they mostly used in PVE.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2 - 2016-04-26 00:14:58 UTC
You don't need to change the hyp when you can use a mega or domi for larger group pvp.

The hyp's uses maybe few, but its good at things like PVE and small gang because of the rep bonus. -1

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2016-04-26 00:16:53 UTC
No, all four races should not have the same tank bonuses.
Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#4 - 2016-04-26 00:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Teddy KGB
Danika Princip wrote:
No, all four races should not have the same tank bonuses.


thats what i'm talking. don't do same. one race have resist other have hp ammount. or you think it is same?

maybe people do not understand why fleet ship needs big HP buffer. it is simple. when 30 BSs shootingh megathron they hawe like 150 000 damage in one strike and just instapop it. So you really need a big buffer. now amarr and caldari races have such type of ships and gallente/minmatar have solo ships instead. not cool, dude..
You mean one race should have usefull bonuses and other race should not? Or what..
Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#5 - 2016-04-26 00:29:16 UTC
i really prefer mega or domi for solo, cos i will always have less blob on my head, as if i fly in hyper
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6 - 2016-04-26 00:32:46 UTC
Good thing fleet pvp is not the only way to play the game then.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#7 - 2016-04-26 00:35:26 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Good thing fleet pvp is not the only way to play the game then.

untill you start living in 0.0
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2016-04-26 00:41:51 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
No, all four races should not have the same tank bonuses.


thats what i'm talking. don't do same. one race have resist other have hp ammount. or you think it is same?

maybe people do not understand why fleet ship needs big HP buffer. it is simple. when 30 BSs shootingh megathron they hawe like 150 000 damage in one strike and just instapop it. So you really need a big buffer. now amarr and caldari races have such type of ships and gallente/minmatar have solo ships instead. not cool, dude..
You mean one race should have usefull bonuses and other race should not? Or what..


Well, considering the fact I've flown more Minmatar battleship doctrines than any other over the years (Maelstroms, Tempests, TFIs twice, machs if you want to count those, and a typhoon fleet that never actually saw any use. Alphafleet, heavy welpfleet, techfleet, baltecfleet and yachtfleet to give them the names), I'd say you're flat out wrong there.

Oddly enough, the second most used race in my experience has been Gallente, with megas twice, domis and vindis. (baltec and grindrfleets, domifleet and yachtfleet again if you want our cool names for those too)

Nobody uses battleship doctrines anymore though.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-04-26 00:50:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyra Gerie
Okay then, what's your idea? All you've said is that it as a bonus is useless.

So here's something to discuss, what if all armor rep bonuses applied to local and remote reps? Initially it's far too powerful without a drawback. Local tank has the drawback of using your cap and requiring a cap booster or two. If anyone can think of a decent trade off for this bonus that would make it useful in both fleet and solo areas it might work.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#10 - 2016-04-26 03:52:15 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Good thing fleet pvp is not the only way to play the game then.

untill you start living in 0.0


And? You realise the vast VAST majority of the playerbase is not in null right? Why does the hyp need to change because its bonus doesn't work well in fleet fights? An especially good question when you have alternatives that do work very well in null and use the exact same skills in the mega and domi?

Also noteworthy is that the two ships you believe have good bonuses for fleet fights (the rokh and baddon) don't actually see much use in fleet fights...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Wimzy Chent-Shi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-04-26 10:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Wimzy Chent-Shi
Hyp is one of the top choices for solo pvp, yes the bonus is a shame for fleet use but no one forces you to use it.
GID GUD
Raw HP bonus is nice for catching reps in time, but still worse choice when compared to ressist bonus.

Come get some cancer @ my blog !

"This clash of opinions is like cutting onions. We are creating something here, that's productive, ...and then there is also salt." -Wimzy 2016
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2016-04-26 10:50:56 UTC
We use the hype all the time in wh gangs so it's not useless.

This seems to be a case of"it's useless to my play style so our must be changed"

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2016-04-26 16:04:01 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Nobody uses battleship doctrines anymore though.

My first thought reading the OP was "who uses BS doctrine these days???"
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2016-04-26 17:52:25 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
Someone probably will say - hold on, what about solo pvp. Lets just remember what people think when they see Hyperion flying solo. "it has two reps, we need DPS or neuts". Or Deimos.. "it tanks a lot we need DPS or neuts".
Ships with this bonus are too predictable in solo and totally useless in fleets.
So amarr & caldari have 3 fleet BS lines while gallente & minmatar only 2.

The fact that Hyperions still kill a lot of ships when flown by capable pilots shows that they are not predictable and can outmaneuver suspecting and unsuspecting targets just fine.
There is furthermore no problem with them being useless in fleets. Your argument about Amarr and Caldari having 3 instead of 2 fleet ships is flawed because Amarr has 2 Laser and 1 Drone boat and Caldari have 2 Missile and 1 Hybrid turret boat, or in other words 2 different kind of fleet ships just like Gallente (which have the Hybrid Megathron and the Drone Dominix). Despite the bonus, Maelstroms work just fine in fleets, and the Hyperion does not need to be a fleet ship.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#15 - 2016-04-26 19:52:25 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
When we take this type of BSs in a 5+ pilots fleet we always expect to face DPS that no active tank ship will handle without remote reps. So this bonus is totally useless for Tec1 BSs in fleets.

Someone probably will say - hold on, what about solo pvp. Lets just remember what people think when they see Hyperion flying solo. "it has two reps, we need DPS or neuts". Or Deimos.. "it tanks a lot we need DPS or neuts".
Ships with this bonus are too predictable in solo and totally useless in fleets.
So amarr & caldari have 3 fleet BS lines while gallente & minmatar only 2.

What about replacing this bonus with 7.5% (or other number) armor/shield ammount, so it will look good in line with amarr/caldari BSs with 4% resist bonus.
I'd rather replace this bonus on all subcapital ships except Marauders, as they mostly used in PVE.


here a hint, not all ships are made for 1 type of pvp, you should learn to take ships in that is based on your pvp style and not try to kill anothers pvp/pve style as they use the same boat in a different way..

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#16 - 2016-04-26 21:18:54 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Good thing fleet pvp is not the only way to play the game then.

untill you start living in 0.0


So now we're massively reworking an entire ship class for a minority of the game's playerbase? You do know that over 85% of people don't live in null, right?
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#17 - 2016-04-26 21:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Callagan
It's not because you don't know how to fit a ship / choose the right hull, that things need to be changed.


Quote:
Someone probably will say - hold on, what about solo pvp. Lets just remember what people think when they see Hyperion flying solo. "it has two reps, we need DPS or neuts". Or Deimos.. "it tanks a lot we need DPS or neuts".


This quote shows (in addition to your kb) that you obviously don't understand solo pvp. Of course people are always going to bring the direct counter to your ship. "Hugh, that guy is flying a phantasm, lets bring 2 huggins". "hey the intel shows a nomen going around, undock the hics!".

This is why you need to force fights and not just sit and wait for your "fair and honest opponents" to come welp ships to you.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#18 - 2016-04-26 21:47:24 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Teddy KGB wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Good thing fleet pvp is not the only way to play the game then.

untill you start living in 0.0


So now we're massively reworking an entire ship class for a minority of the game's playerbase? You do know that over 85% of people don't live in null, right?


not to mention last i looked there was still small gang and solo pvp in 0.0

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#19 - 2016-04-30 13:35:21 UTC
Lucy Callagan wrote:
It's not because you don't know how to fit a ship / choose the right hull, that things need to be changed.


Quote:
Someone probably will say - hold on, what about solo pvp. Lets just remember what people think when they see Hyperion flying solo. "it has two reps, we need DPS or neuts". Or Deimos.. "it tanks a lot we need DPS or neuts".


This quote shows (in addition to your kb) that you obviously don't understand solo pvp. Of course people are always going to bring the direct counter to your ship. "Hugh, that guy is flying a phantasm, lets bring 2 huggins". "hey the intel shows a nomen going around, undock the hics!".

This is why you need to force fights and not just sit and wait for your "fair and honest opponents" to come welp ships to you.


if you wana check up my solo pvp skills you should probably check stats for characters i've sold for example andy maque & maque
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#20 - 2016-04-30 13:40:11 UTC
Not all ships need to be balanced against one another in every scenario. You pick the ship for the purpose.


Ships with local repair bonuses are meant to use local reps for small gang pvp and not fleet pvp which is why their bonuses doesn't scale with the number of fleet members and opponents.

By comparison ships with resistance bonuses scale both with the number of people on your side as the number of enemies.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

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