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Crime & Punishment

 
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And those who cheered yesterday will cry today...

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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#41 - 2016-04-24 20:13:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Sorry, I don't hang out in Uedama. Do try and keep up.

Also, the bump timer means nothing if you are AFK autopiloting. Or AFK, period.

And people have already found a way around it.

So much for the 'bump timer'.

Just another dumb idea by CCP that proves, yet again.....

That

you

can

not

patch

stupid.

So deal with it.




Calm down ganker.

The projection is strong in this one.

As I said before, ganking a freighter may involve bumping it, but it's not the only thing making a gank possible. But bumping a ship as a means of affecting its travel for any reason and without consequences is crap a mechanic.

The only "nerf" to ganking is there is no luxury of locking down a fat target while waiting for criminal timers to run out. This means smarter target selection. That's all. Try to deal with that.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#42 - 2016-04-25 05:23:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ima Wreckyou
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Did they also talk about the buff to ganking which will be obviously paired with this nerf to ganking, as they always do, I mean since they accidentally buffed something for ganking, as Fozzi explained?


Doesn't look like a nerf to ganking. It's a nerf to bumping.

You mean in the same sense that the buff to wreck HP was not a buff to ganking but just to wreck HP?

Or maybe we can just stop the silly word games and actually answer my question? Or was he just lying when he said they pair gank nerfs with buffs?

Evil RatKid
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#43 - 2016-04-25 06:08:07 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Did they also talk about the buff to ganking which will be obviously paired with this nerf to ganking, as they always do, I mean since they accidentally buffed something for ganking, as Fozzi explained?


Doesn't look like a nerf to ganking. It's a nerf to bumping.

You mean in the same sense that the buff to wreck HP was not a buff to ganking but just to wreck HP?

Or maybe we can just stop the silly word games and actually answer my question? Or was he just lying when he said they pair gank nerfs with buffs?




Clamoring for a gank buff after this bumping nerf would be an admission that ganking relies on this no-consequences mechanic of bumping.

All this time...

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ozzie Udan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2016-04-25 06:40:19 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Did they also talk about the buff to ganking which will be obviously paired with this nerf to ganking, as they always do, I mean since they accidentally buffed something for ganking, as Fozzi explained?


Doesn't look like a nerf to ganking. It's a nerf to bumping.


You're right, all it's going to stop is the stupid bumpers who think it's great to bump someone for 40 min with no gank fleet in the area, I know bumping is a bit of a skill, especially as new bumpers with little experience often end up making our job easier, so they need to practice, which they can still do with all, it's just an end to asshating greifers.

Btw if anyone is still interested in ganking the odd bumper let me know, as we have more numbers now

A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head A painting of me

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#45 - 2016-04-25 06:52:23 UTC
Ozzie Udan wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Did they also talk about the buff to ganking which will be obviously paired with this nerf to ganking, as they always do, I mean since they accidentally buffed something for ganking, as Fozzi explained?


Doesn't look like a nerf to ganking. It's a nerf to bumping.


You're right, all it's going to stop is the stupid bumpers who think it's great to bump someone for 40 min with no gank fleet in the area, I know bumping is a bit of a skill, especially as new bumpers with little experience often end up making our job easier, so they need to practice, which they can still do with all, it's just an end to asshating greifers.

Btw if anyone is still interested in ganking the odd bumper let me know, as we have more numbers now


This is the important thing, as I said earlier there were multiple people who were bumped for hours who were spitting mad at CCP for their stupid mechanic. That CCP left it for so damn long is rather typical, but at least they are acting. The end of this grief play around this poor mechanic is the most important part of all of this.

That being said, now the gankers will have to be in position and do target selection rather than stack up a ton of different freighters, it was that allied to the flexibility of hyperdunking the captive or ganking it that made me define hisec as a themepark for gankers.

Now the balance is right which is why Ima Wreckyou is begging for a buff, because they know that this is now when they are likely to get found out.

As for ganking the bumper I have a toon setup and ready to go with four Talos's, not quite full DPS, but not far off.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#46 - 2016-04-25 08:25:27 UTC
Ozzie Udan wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Did they also talk about the buff to ganking which will be obviously paired with this nerf to ganking, as they always do, I mean since they accidentally buffed something for ganking, as Fozzi explained?


Doesn't look like a nerf to ganking. It's a nerf to bumping.


You're right, all it's going to stop is the stupid bumpers who think it's great to bump someone for 40 min with no gank fleet in the area, I know bumping is a bit of a skill, especially as new bumpers with little experience often end up making our job easier, so they need to practice, which they can still do with all, it's just an end to asshating greifers.

Btw if anyone is still interested in ganking the odd bumper let me know, as we have more numbers now


I have 2 characters set up for bumper ganking.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#47 - 2016-04-25 11:55:44 UTC
DeeDee en Distel wrote:
It's the special kind of self righteousness that leads to the nonsense we see on college campuses today, and other such social tragedies.



You mean like the special kind of stupidity one see's from people who post on forum alts?

Oh, agree muchly.

BTW.

Post on your main or GTFO.

It's a C&P thing.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#48 - 2016-04-25 15:12:44 UTC
Most likely, this mechanic will be simple. When a player clicks Warp, a 3 minute counter starts. If the counter expires and the ship is not in warp, the ship enters warp immediately.

This will only apply to ships in warp. If anything cancels that warp (player action such as stopping your ship or being pointed), the counter resets. I doubt CCP will make it a rolling counter as that would require too many calls to the server/database to save and store the data.

So one suicide point every 3 minutes would allow for constant bumping. I am not sure if pointing some one cancels auto pilot. If it does and a person is AFK, you could gank on the in and out gate. If it does not, then you gank on the out gate when they warp to it at 15 km and slowboat to the gate.

Other areas impacted...
Ever get hung up on a structure when trying to warp? This can happen in missions or if you undock and try to warp to a gate behind the station. After 3 minutes of bumping on the structure, you'll warp.
A titan or super will have to be pointed or killed within 3 minutes or the emergency warp kicks in regardless of bumps. I doubt this will be a big issue. It just means you need points. This may be more problematic in Low Sec where you would have to use a HIC.


All that said, suicide rookie ships with a t1 warp disrupt would be all it takes to keep bumping. You wouldn't even need to worry about concord as one point would reset the counter. Really, this only hinders those who bump for ransom without a gank fleet. If a gank fleet can't get to a target and kill/point it in 3 minutes, it's not a good gank fleet.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#49 - 2016-04-25 16:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Most likely, this mechanic will be simple. When a player clicks Warp, a 3 minute counter starts. If the counter expires and the ship is not in warp, the ship enters warp immediately.

This will only apply to ships in warp. If anything cancels that warp (player action such as stopping your ship or being pointed), the counter resets. I doubt CCP will make it a rolling counter as that would require too many calls to the server/database to save and store the data.

So one suicide point every 3 minutes would allow for constant bumping. I am not sure if pointing some one cancels auto pilot. If it does and a person is AFK, you could gank on the in and out gate. If it does not, then you gank on the out gate when they warp to it at 15 km and slowboat to the gate.

Other areas impacted...
Ever get hung up on a structure when trying to warp? This can happen in missions or if you undock and try to warp to a gate behind the station. After 3 minutes of bumping on the structure, you'll warp.
A titan or super will have to be pointed or killed within 3 minutes or the emergency warp kicks in regardless of bumps. I doubt this will be a big issue. It just means you need points. This may be more problematic in Low Sec where you would have to use a HIC.


All that said, suicide rookie ships with a t1 warp disrupt would be all it takes to keep bumping. You wouldn't even need to worry about concord as one point would reset the counter. Really, this only hinders those who bump for ransom without a gank fleet. If a gank fleet can't get to a target and kill/point it in 3 minutes, it's not a good gank fleet.


It has to be that the timer does not get cancelled otherwise it will change nothing, just make it so that the ganker or more importantly the ransomer has to fund two accounts for suicide alts, no big deal.

I had the impression that Titans and Supers were losing their immunity and instead getting a warp core stab affect, so fleets without HIC's will be able to point them. This is a very very good move imo.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#50 - 2016-04-25 17:28:07 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Most likely, this mechanic will be simple. When a player clicks Warp, a 3 minute counter starts. If the counter expires and the ship is not in warp, the ship enters warp immediately.

This will only apply to ships in warp. If anything cancels that warp (player action such as stopping your ship or being pointed), the counter resets. I doubt CCP will make it a rolling counter as that would require too many calls to the server/database to save and store the data.

So one suicide point every 3 minutes would allow for constant bumping. I am not sure if pointing some one cancels auto pilot. If it does and a person is AFK, you could gank on the in and out gate. If it does not, then you gank on the out gate when they warp to it at 15 km and slowboat to the gate.

Other areas impacted...
Ever get hung up on a structure when trying to warp? This can happen in missions or if you undock and try to warp to a gate behind the station. After 3 minutes of bumping on the structure, you'll warp.
A titan or super will have to be pointed or killed within 3 minutes or the emergency warp kicks in regardless of bumps. I doubt this will be a big issue. It just means you need points. This may be more problematic in Low Sec where you would have to use a HIC.


All that said, suicide rookie ships with a t1 warp disrupt would be all it takes to keep bumping. You wouldn't even need to worry about concord as one point would reset the counter. Really, this only hinders those who bump for ransom without a gank fleet. If a gank fleet can't get to a target and kill/point it in 3 minutes, it's not a good gank fleet.




This will give the gank crew cause to do something that gets suggested but is rather frowned upon: pre-staging Concord. That is, a suicide rookie ship to bring in Concord on even a small infraction so Concord is "present". I don't recall if this was ever deemed an exploit, but I've read references to miners getting reported for it.

The time it takes for Concord to show up can be crucial.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#51 - 2016-04-25 18:13:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

This will give the gank crew cause to do something that gets suggested but is rather frowned upon: pre-staging Concord. That is, a suicide rookie ship to bring in Concord on even a small infraction so Concord is "present". I don't recall if this was ever deemed an exploit, but I've read references to miners getting reported for it.

The time it takes for Concord to show up can be crucial.

I do,
this type of concord "staging" was confirmed ok on the forums by a gm on the back of a support ticket Benny Ohu filled for clarity in one of the early hyper-dunking threadnoughts.

the logic given (or my reading of it anway, see the link below) was ganking manipulated concord and effected spawn times under normal conditions anyway,
clever use of this was stated as fine ,even defensive use provided the character used was not recycled or otherwise used or enabled to escape concord or any of the normal flags.
which it didn't.

this exact clarification is the reason (or the most poignant case made for) gm tags being clickable as only dev ones were at the time.

... what are ye staring for , **** you im not flying anywhere !

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2016-04-25 20:49:56 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Most likely, this mechanic will be simple. When a player clicks Warp, a 3 minute counter starts. If the counter expires and the ship is not in warp, the ship enters warp immediately.

This will only apply to ships in warp. If anything cancels that warp (player action such as stopping your ship or being pointed), the counter resets. I doubt CCP will make it a rolling counter as that would require too many calls to the server/database to save and store the data.


Funny, how you go out of your way to artificially make it hard to code. Replace "if anything cancels that warp" by "if the player issues another command" and you will have the rolling timer we need.

To enter warp, (ship has to be aligned OR timer has expired) AND not pointed.

Not sure if the 3 minute cap is a proper fix for the problem, and not sure if this doesn't create additional unexpected side effects with non-freighters out of highsec; but coding wise I don't see the problem.

Personally I'm more thinking along the lines of spinning up the warpdrive when at three quarter's max speed regardless of alignment: you'd still be able to bump people off stations, and you'd still be able to point them to prevent warp. Warp drive spool-up time could be class dependant for all I care (the Cynabal already has a role bonus for it).

Why alignment absolutely HAS to be part of the deal is beyond me. Not to mention freighters are boring enough as it is already - why not just get rid of the 15km autopilot position (make it zero - you know it's logical), get rid of the alignment requirement and there you go: a real quality of life improvement for haulers. No fuzz, no fineprint. You want to prevent warp, then POINT the damn ship (and take the criminal flag for your criminal activity). That's what the module is there for.

That said, I'm always happy when CCP acknowledges broken stuff and tries to fix it. I'm sure they know their craft and how to implement it properly.
Jhousetlin Zamayid
#53 - 2016-04-25 21:37:07 UTC
Can still bump miners out of the belts. Cool
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#54 - 2016-04-25 22:41:26 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

This will give the gank crew cause to do something that gets suggested but is rather frowned upon: pre-staging Concord. That is, a suicide rookie ship to bring in Concord on even a small infraction so Concord is "present". I don't recall if this was ever deemed an exploit, but I've read references to miners getting reported for it.

The time it takes for Concord to show up can be crucial.

I do,
this type of concord "staging" was confirmed ok on the forums by a gm on the back of a support ticket Benny Ohu filled for clarity in one of the early hyper-dunking threadnoughts.

the logic given (or my reading of it anway, see the link below) was ganking manipulated concord and effected spawn times under normal conditions anyway,
clever use of this was stated as fine ,even defensive use provided the character used was not recycled or otherwise used or enabled to escape concord or any of the normal flags.
which it didn't.

this exact clarification is the reason (or the most poignant case made for) gm tags being clickable as only dev ones were at the time.

... what are ye staring for , **** you im not flying anywhere !



Thanks!

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Cyclo Hexanol
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#55 - 2016-04-26 01:47:53 UTC
Does it take the average bump mach less than 3 minutes to get a freighter into gank range on a gate?
I have only ever bunped dudes in safes so my mechanics are a bit rusty.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

King of Stating the Obvious 2015

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Elected by: Random forum alt

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#56 - 2016-04-26 06:52:47 UTC
Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote:
Can still bump miners out of the belts. Cool


The miners fault for not using a Skiff and orbiting at 1,000 metres.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ozzie Udan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2016-04-26 08:18:22 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ozzie Udan wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Did they also talk about the buff to ganking which will be obviously paired with this nerf to ganking, as they always do, I mean since they accidentally buffed something for ganking, as Fozzi explained?


Doesn't look like a nerf to ganking. It's a nerf to bumping.


You're right, all it's going to stop is the stupid bumpers who think it's great to bump someone for 40 min with no gank fleet in the area, I know bumping is a bit of a skill, especially as new bumpers with little experience often end up making our job easier, so they need to practice, which they can still do with all, it's just an end to asshating greifers.

Btw if anyone is still interested in ganking the odd bumper let me know, as we have more numbers now


I have 2 characters set up for bumper ganking.




I feel a ganking night coming on Cool

A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head A painting of me

Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#58 - 2016-04-26 11:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Dom Arkaral
Oh lookie, AG are becoming gankers like the ones they tried SO HARD to erase LolLolLol
CODE. Always wins!

And AP flyers will still burn, this change mostly concerns those that are at the keyboard... since you know.. they can click warp hahah

D.

p.s. 315 likes, Praise James!

P.p.s. Inb4 Tyler comes to cry here too

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2016-04-26 15:11:50 UTC
The Bread and Butter work of the New Order is not, in fact, freighter-ganking.

In the same way that large Nullsec fleet battles garner most of the media headlines (or used to do so), freighter-ganks are inherently newsworthy because of the 'Wow!' factor. This is due in large part to the value of the kill, the numbers required to effect it and, of course, the fact that these events take place in a highly populated part of New Eden (Highsec) and on a much-travelled route - all space-roads seem to lead to Jita.

We also enforce The Code among missioners, miners and anyone else found in Highsec (bar absolute Rookies, of course).

Agent Kalorned has already stated on TMC that he expects the incidence of freighter-ganks to fall now that loyalanon has departed. This poses a potential problem for the AG enthusiasts. If all their efforts are centred upon the famous gank-spots, they'll become increasingly bored with the lack of 'action'. Zeal will begin to wane and numbers to fall.

We have time on our side. We can (and do) freely roam Highsec selecting our targets at will. What will AG do, follow us on the off-chance of a possible intervention? I doubt it very much.

What ever happens with freighter-ganking/bumping, the work of the New Order will continue unabated. It has never depended upon the CODE. Alliance. That Alliance grew out of the New Order of Highsec, not the other way around.

minerbumping

New Order Audio Archive

NEW! MinerBumping Video Vault
Ozzie Udan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2016-04-26 16:03:41 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Oh lookie, AG are becoming gankers like the ones they tried SO HARD to erase LolLolLol
CODE. Always wins!

And AP flyers will still burn, this change mostly concerns those that are at the keyboard... since you know.. they can click warp hahah

D.

p.s. 315 likes, Praise James!

P.p.s. Inb4 Tyler comes to cry here too


Dom like my new pic http://imgur.com/FJvOi8E , happy to you one if you wants


A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head A painting of me