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[Citadels] Carriers

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Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#541 - 2016-04-24 23:00:55 UTC
Are Fax's coming out this week? If so, where is the thread talking about it?

When are the dread changes going in effect?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#542 - 2016-04-24 23:04:44 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Are Fax's coming out this week? If so, where is the thread talking about it?

When are the dread changes going in effect?


Both are this week

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#543 - 2016-04-24 23:55:51 UTC
So I decided to try a Ninazu using its new found Warfare links bonus and set it up with Armor links (seemed logical as it is supposed to be an armor logi boat).
My advice - Don't do it. 1.8 second cycle time on remote reps is ok, until you try to keep capacitor up to them. With all 5's, you'll need 2 capital cap boosters perma running (have 36% cap after one triage cycle and use 36 cap charges to get back to at least 80%)
With less than perfect skills (remote reps at 4, everything else 5) you will be using 3 cap boosters and still be close to no cap at the end of one triage cycle (low cap alarm screaming at you).

T2 capital remote reps do 4,813 per cycle each (in triage), so around 9,600 HP every +-2 s, a T2 Auto cannon fit Nag using Hail hits for around 22K HP every 3.2 seconds - Your going to need 3 fax's to keep reps up to one carrier that is being shot by ONE dread.
Interesting point (probably a bug) I let the nag drop siege, re-initiated it and didn't lose lock on the carrier.

Devs have done a wonderful job at breaking the OP status of self repping carriers (which is a good thing), sadly they broke triage carriers (new fax's) at the same time. You'll now need all 5's in skills, +5 cap and shield or armor implants and a darn big lucky streak to survive any fight in one of these. As for applying logistics to even a small gang, bring as many fax's as you can muster - They won't last long and can't rep a great deal individually so more will always be better.

N+1 is still the number one rule for any capital fight, so make sure you have plenty of blues and a reliable batfone network.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#544 - 2016-04-25 00:12:23 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Are Fax's coming out this week? If so, where is the thread talking about it?

When are the dread changes going in effect?


Both are this week


no threads discussing them?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#545 - 2016-04-25 00:39:04 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Are Fax's coming out this week? If so, where is the thread talking about it?

When are the dread changes going in effect?


Both are this week


no threads discussing them?



There is on reddit. ... because ccp can't be bothered with their own forum

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#546 - 2016-04-25 00:43:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Attention
Sgt Ocker wrote:
So I decided to try a Ninazu using its new found Warfare links bonus and set it up with Armor links (seemed logical as it is supposed to be an armor logi boat).
My advice - Don't do it. 1.8 second cycle time on remote reps is ok, until you try to keep capacitor up to them. With all 5's, you'll need 2 capital cap boosters perma running (have 36% cap after one triage cycle and use 36 cap charges to get back to at least 80%)
With less than perfect skills (remote reps at 4, everything else 5) you will be using 3 cap boosters and still be close to no cap at the end of one triage cycle (low cap alarm screaming at you).

T2 capital remote reps do 4,813 per cycle each (in triage), so around 9,600 HP every +-2 s, a T2 Auto cannon fit Nag using Hail hits for around 22K HP every 3.2 seconds - Your going to need 3 fax's to keep reps up to one carrier that is being shot by ONE dread.
Interesting point (probably a bug) I let the nag drop siege, re-initiated it and didn't lose lock on the carrier.

Devs have done a wonderful job at breaking the OP status of self repping carriers (which is a good thing), sadly they broke triage carriers (new fax's) at the same time. You'll now need all 5's in skills, +5 cap and shield or armor implants and a darn big lucky streak to survive any fight in one of these. As for applying logistics to even a small gang, bring as many fax's as you can muster - They won't last long and can't rep a great deal individually so more will always be better.

N+1 is still the number one rule for any capital fight, so make sure you have plenty of blues and a reliable batfone network.



Not sure you understand logistics based on your comparison with nag dps.remember a nag has to deal with resists rr does not

Also there is a link meant to be used with the cycle time reduction one that reduces capacitor cost

The fax are bad but not quite as bad as your making them seem. They would be fixed significantly if there were larger cap charges they could use


Edit:

Not saying this in a way to make your input seem unwanted just trying to make sure good feed back that isn't bogged down with misconceptions (you know since ccp doesn't seem to want to clear things up)

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
John Hand
#547 - 2016-04-25 03:52:23 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
So I decided to try a Ninazu using its new found Warfare links bonus and set it up with Armor links (seemed logical as it is supposed to be an armor logi boat).
My advice - Don't do it. 1.8 second cycle time on remote reps is ok, until you try to keep capacitor up to them. With all 5's, you'll need 2 capital cap boosters perma running (have 36% cap after one triage cycle and use 36 cap charges to get back to at least 80%)
With less than perfect skills (remote reps at 4, everything else 5) you will be using 3 cap boosters and still be close to no cap at the end of one triage cycle (low cap alarm screaming at you).

T2 capital remote reps do 4,813 per cycle each (in triage), so around 9,600 HP every +-2 s, a T2 Auto cannon fit Nag using Hail hits for around 22K HP every 3.2 seconds - Your going to need 3 fax's to keep reps up to one carrier that is being shot by ONE dread.
Interesting point (probably a bug) I let the nag drop siege, re-initiated it and didn't lose lock on the carrier.

Devs have done a wonderful job at breaking the OP status of self repping carriers (which is a good thing), sadly they broke triage carriers (new fax's) at the same time. You'll now need all 5's in skills, +5 cap and shield or armor implants and a darn big lucky streak to survive any fight in one of these. As for applying logistics to even a small gang, bring as many fax's as you can muster - They won't last long and can't rep a great deal individually so more will always be better.

N+1 is still the number one rule for any capital fight, so make sure you have plenty of blues and a reliable batfone network.



CCP nerfed the hell out of the remote rep amount.

Caps are MEANT to be big and powerful and hard to kill, its an effing CAPITAL SHIP for a reason.

However the FAX kinda redeem that with the Apostle and the Minakawa both having the Nidhoggers old repair AMOUNT bonus. So you should do your testing with the AMOUNT bonus instead of the cycle bonus, should make things better.


Still, sad to see supers and carriers nerfed into the ground again in terms of there repair abilities and tanking.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#548 - 2016-04-25 04:01:20 UTC
well the minakawa and apostle may have the same role bonus but they can not fit as many reps as the nid currently can as well the reps are not as strong to start with. (and i swear even at lvl 5 they have either less cap or the reps cost more cap)


carriers repair ability has been nerffed but their tank is about the only thing that got buffed. they can get much higher buffer tanks than currently on TQ and can always revive RR. the tank is about the only thing balanced when it comes to carriers. their tank was not nerfed it was just changed

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#549 - 2016-04-25 04:08:22 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
well the minakawa and apostle may have the same role bonus but they can not fit as many reps as the nid currently can as well the reps are not as strong to start with. (and i swear even at lvl 5 they have either less cap or the reps cost more cap)


carriers repair ability has been nerffed but their tank is about the only thing that got buffed. they can get much higher buffer tanks than currently on TQ and can always revive RR. the tank is about the only thing balanced when it comes to carriers. their tank was not nerfed it was just changed

Their resistances effectively got nerfed though since they need slots for plates or shield extenders that would previously have been hardeners.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#550 - 2016-04-25 04:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Lugh Crow-Slave
#551 - 2016-04-25 04:13:07 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
well the minakawa and apostle may have the same role bonus but they can not fit as many reps as the nid currently can as well the reps are not as strong to start with. (and i swear even at lvl 5 they have either less cap or the reps cost more cap)


carriers repair ability has been nerffed but their tank is about the only thing that got buffed. they can get much higher buffer tanks than currently on TQ and can always revive RR. the tank is about the only thing balanced when it comes to carriers. their tank was not nerfed it was just changed

Their resistances effectively got nerfed though since they need slots for plates or shield extenders that would previously have been hardeners.


yes but they can still get over 80 and the chimera and archon can get over 90 so they still take to RR very well


their EHP and THP can both be higher than they are now on tq

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
John Hand
#552 - 2016-04-25 05:00:30 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
well the minakawa and apostle may have the same role bonus but they can not fit as many reps as the nid currently can as well the reps are not as strong to start with. (and i swear even at lvl 5 they have either less cap or the reps cost more cap)


carriers repair ability has been nerffed but their tank is about the only thing that got buffed. they can get much higher buffer tanks than currently on TQ and can always revive RR. the tank is about the only thing balanced when it comes to carriers. their tank was not nerfed it was just changed


RIIIGHT, like I wan't to put plates on a ship that already crawls into warp and has PG issues to begin with. Thus limiting the ability to even put the cap MWD on, WHICH BTW has a longer cycle time then a normal MWD because heaven forbid caps should be able to get into warp in less then 10 seconds.

Face it, cap EHP got nerfed because they put in those plates and extenders that no one really wants to use because there resists were already **** poor low to start with.

I mean really, CCP needs to stop fixing what ain't broken. Caps are "End game" ships (if there was an end game to EvE) there the big toys we like to play with in the sandbox.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#553 - 2016-04-25 05:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
John Hand wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
So I decided to try a Ninazu using its new found Warfare links bonus and set it up with Armor links (seemed logical as it is supposed to be an armor logi boat).
My advice - Don't do it. 1.8 second cycle time on remote reps is ok, until you try to keep capacitor up to them. With all 5's, you'll need 2 capital cap boosters perma running (have 36% cap after one triage cycle and use 36 cap charges to get back to at least 80%)
With less than perfect skills (remote reps at 4, everything else 5) you will be using 3 cap boosters and still be close to no cap at the end of one triage cycle (low cap alarm screaming at you).

T2 capital remote reps do 4,813 per cycle each (in triage), so around 9,600 HP every +-2 s, a T2 Auto cannon fit Nag using Hail hits for around 22K HP every 3.2 seconds - Your going to need 3 fax's to keep reps up to one carrier that is being shot by ONE dread.
Interesting point (probably a bug) I let the nag drop siege, re-initiated it and didn't lose lock on the carrier.

Devs have done a wonderful job at breaking the OP status of self repping carriers (which is a good thing), sadly they broke triage carriers (new fax's) at the same time. You'll now need all 5's in skills, +5 cap and shield or armor implants and a darn big lucky streak to survive any fight in one of these. As for applying logistics to even a small gang, bring as many fax's as you can muster - They won't last long and can't rep a great deal individually so more will always be better.

N+1 is still the number one rule for any capital fight, so make sure you have plenty of blues and a reliable batfone network.



CCP nerfed the hell out of the remote rep amount.

Caps are MEANT to be big and powerful and hard to kill, its an effing CAPITAL SHIP for a reason.

However the FAX kinda redeem that with the Apostle and the Minakawa both having the Nidhoggers old repair AMOUNT bonus. So you should do your testing with the AMOUNT bonus instead of the cycle bonus, should make things better.


Still, sad to see supers and carriers nerfed into the ground again in terms of there repair abilities and tanking.

ok, I don't have all 5's for the Apostle as I do for the Ninazu but with all applicable skills to 4 (T1 triage module) the apostle with T2 remote reps, 5,250 every 2.4 seconds (will be faster cycle time with T2 triage so more cap used) X 3 reps, with links - 1 T2 Cap battery, 1 X T2 capital cap booster it caps out at just on half triage cycle.

You still need the T2 ancillary current router to fit 2 more meta capital cap boosters which will JUST allow a full triage cycle to complete as your cap runs dry using 3 reps. Pray you don't get any aggro, you can't run your local rep without turning off all remote reps.


A smart FC will split DPS between a primary target and any Fax's on grid (only takes 1 Dread to bother a Fax enough he needs to rep = less reps on the primary)

5.250 for the Apostle vs 4813 for the Ninazu, it really isn't much of a bonus when both cap out so fast as to only be relatively useful for one triage cycle. Admittedly the Apostle is far better on cap in that it can run 3 reps for one cycle where as the Ninazu can only run 2.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#554 - 2016-04-25 06:03:31 UTC
I really wonder if they intend faxes to be used with Avatar boosts or something.
Anthar Thebess
#555 - 2016-04-25 07:45:22 UTC
Every one is excited that dreads are getting cheaper.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
John Hand
#556 - 2016-04-25 07:49:56 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

ok, I don't have all 5's for the Apostle as I do for the Ninazu but with all applicable skills to 4 (T1 triage module) the apostle with T2 remote reps, 5,250 every 2.4 seconds (will be faster cycle time with T2 triage so more cap used) X 3 reps, with links - 1 T2 Cap battery, 1 X T2 capital cap booster it caps out at just on half triage cycle.

You still need the T2 ancillary current router to fit 2 more meta capital cap boosters which will JUST allow a full triage cycle to complete as your cap runs dry using 3 reps. Pray you don't get any aggro, you can't run your local rep without turning off all remote reps.


A smart FC will split DPS between a primary target and any Fax's on grid (only takes 1 Dread to bother a Fax enough he needs to rep = less reps on the primary)

5.250 for the Apostle vs 4813 for the Ninazu, it really isn't much of a bonus when both cap out so fast as to only be relatively useful for one triage cycle. Admittedly the Apostle is far better on cap in that it can run 3 reps for one cycle where as the Ninazu can only run 2.


Maybe don't run triage? You know, maybe run the Pantheon layout instead with some normal carriers in the mix?

Personally I have always found Triage to be a death sentence in combat, its fine if your doing a tower save, but in combat your just asking to die. Having been in fleets where you are LOOKING for a carrier to go triage so you can focus his ass down because now he cannot get any reps from his friends, it usually means your dead. This is even more compounded by the fact that CCP just did nerf cap reps, means that triage is even more deadly to you.

Is this the end of combat Triage? Maybe, some people will still try it, and lose there ship accordingly. Only time will tell if the FAX are good/bad/meh.
Aeon Veritas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#557 - 2016-04-25 08:10:18 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
I would also like to know why the dragonfly does not have racial range and why none of the superiority fighters have racial range. earlier in this thread it seemed important to ccp to keep racial drone attributes

I don't think the superiority fighters should have the racial range distinction.
I belive they souldn't even have a distiction in the damage amount they deal.
Because they use missiles and for all other waepons the only distinction within a missile-type is the damage type dealed.

As a little immersion eye-candy they should introduce new models for superiority and support fighters.
Because even though the original idea was to have the same fighter equipped with different weapons for different purposes, this is now obsolete.
The reason for this is the different squadron size of those fighters and the resulting adjustment of the volume per fighter to arcive a something similar volume per squadron "for ballance reasons"...
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#558 - 2016-04-25 08:52:12 UTC
Quoted from:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/reworking-capital-ships-skills-modules-and-refitting/

Quote:
You will only require the Fighters skill to use Light, Support and Heavy Fighters.

Is this true ? or must I train light fighters level 1 to be able to use light fighters ?

Because currently i can use them on TQ i have fighters level 4.
Ugh
John Hand
#559 - 2016-04-25 09:12:14 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
Quoted from:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/reworking-capital-ships-skills-modules-and-refitting/

Quote:
You will only require the Fighters skill to use Light, Support and Heavy Fighters.

Is this true ? or must I train light fighters level 1 to be able to use light fighters ?

Because currently i can use them on TQ i have fighters level 4.
Ugh


You will need to get the Light Fighter Skill to use them, but only need level 1 to use them, and only need level 1 of fighters to use the skill.

The same applies to both the new Heavy Fighter skill (upgraded from Fighter Bombers) and the New Support Fighter Skill.

To use T2 variations you will need Fighters 5 and either Light/Support/Heavy Fighter skill to level 4 to use the T2 appropriate fighter.
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#560 - 2016-04-25 11:26:51 UTC
This is stupid, but the blog says we only need:
Quote:
You will only require the Fighters skill to use Light, Support and Heavy Fighters.


That's why i am confused.