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The Like and Get Likes Thread, Renewed

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Yiole Gionglao
#5921 - 2016-04-24 09:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Yiole Gionglao
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
Abused to hell? As I said, the only venue for "abuse" was to do it with 3 chars per account, and that has already been defused.

What remains is an incentive to log in and undock each day and thus be exposed to the sandbox so things happen that wouldn't happen if you didn't log in. Of course that means that people who don't log in will not get a free cookie, but they can just buy it back for ~615 millon ISK each 50, 40 or 30 days depending on how much SP they've got. Which is exaclty the same as with every other gift by CCP (I got my Geckos for free, do they suck because now anyone wanting a Gecko must buy it?)

And as I said, this is a small compensation, almost neglectable, for the absolute lack of content provided by CCP to an impressive chunk of the population. Do you know who are the last to join the complain train? Lowsec PvPrs, who apparently haven't got any toys for 2 years and there are no toys in the plans for them...



So you're seeing burning out and pissing off a large contingent of your population as... compensation?


The compensation is the same no matter what others do. They're free to be pissed off, burn out and quit. It's not exactly as if the universe cared each time I've pissed off, burned out and quitted. If PCU sinks like a rock because of dailies, well, let CCP have it.

I've already seen a game die when developers focused on making love to PvPrs despite the stubborn realities on where was the sub money coming from and what had been left in an unacceptable state at launch. Pirates of the Burning Sea was the name, was my first MMO and was quite a eye opening story to behold. In a way, EVE is bound to replay the story, just EVE survived its growth pains whereas PoTBS didn't.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an alpha / And so it's you
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#5922 - 2016-04-24 09:31:56 UTC
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
The compensation is the same no matter what others do. They're free to be pissed off, burn out and quit. It's not exactly as if anyone cared each time I've pissed off, burned out and quitted. If PCU sinks like a rock because of dailies, well, let CCP have it.

I've already seen a game die when developers focused on making love to PvPrs despite the stubborn realities on where was the sub money coming from and what had been left in an unacceptable state at launch. Pirates of the Burning Sea was the name, was my first MMO and was quite a eye opening story to behold. In a way, EVE is bound to replay the story, just EVE survived its growth pains whereas PoTBS didn't.


PvPers have PvE alts to fund themselves. Please tell me where the majority of money is coming from.
miiral
#5923 - 2016-04-24 10:05:54 UTC
Unallocated SP reward for killing NPC about every day... just, why ?
Why not spawn skill injectors randomly on NPC loot or half full injectors more often or what ever...
Oh well, might as well clean & fit my old Wolf for some fast, daily action.

Just saying, carry on Cool

li'l things about Miiral...⏎
Evasive Shadow Assassin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5924 - 2016-04-24 10:07:58 UTC
Yiole Gionglao
#5925 - 2016-04-24 12:10:28 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
The compensation is the same no matter what others do. They're free to be pissed off, burn out and quit. It's not exactly as if anyone cared each time I've pissed off, burned out and quitted. If PCU sinks like a rock because of dailies, well, let CCP have it.

I've already seen a game die when developers focused on making love to PvPrs despite the stubborn realities on where was the sub money coming from and what had been left in an unacceptable state at launch. Pirates of the Burning Sea was the name, was my first MMO and was quite a eye opening story to behold. In a way, EVE is bound to replay the story, just EVE survived its growth pains whereas PoTBS didn't.


PvPers have PvE alts to fund themselves. Please tell me where the majority of money is coming from.


8% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to PvP.
12% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to chat and skill up.
25% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to "level up their Ravens".
25% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters for PvE.
30% of money comes from subscribers who use their accounts and characters to do a bit of everything ingame, PvP included.

Of course, everybody does some PvE. That's why PvE accounts for 90% of all ingame activity, although dedicated PvErs are just 50% of the subscribers.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an alpha / And so it's you
Yiole Gionglao
#5926 - 2016-04-24 12:15:00 UTC
miiral wrote:
Unallocated SP reward for killing NPC about every day... just, why ?
Why not spawn skill injectors randomly on NPC loot or half full injectors more often or what ever...
Oh well, might as well clean & fit my old Wolf for some fast, daily action.

Just saying, carry on Cool


Oh, but CCP wants you to push the button.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an alpha / And so it's you
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#5927 - 2016-04-24 12:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
8% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to PvP.
12% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to chat and skill up.
25% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to "level up their Ravens".
25% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters for PvE.
30% of money comes from subscribers who use their accounts and characters to do a bit of everything ingame, PvP included.

Of course, everybody does some PvE. That's why PvE accounts for 90% of all ingame activity, although dedicated PvErs are just 50% of the subscribers.


Show me the study that gave you these numbers please.

Also, alt accounts that just used to fun PvP mains fall into the category of people who mostly use that account for PvE. In the other thread you also mention 60%+ being PvErs, and here you tell me 50%. The actual number is a lot lower.
Yiole Gionglao
#5928 - 2016-04-24 13:23:44 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
8% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to PvP.
12% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to chat and skill up.
25% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to "level up their Ravens".
25% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters for PvE.
30% of money comes from subscribers who use their accounts and characters to do a bit of everything ingame, PvP included.

Of course, everybody does some PvE. That's why PvE accounts for 90% of all ingame activity, although dedicated PvErs are just 50% of the subscribers.


Show me the study that gave you these numbers please.

Also, alt accounts that just used to fun PvP mains fall into the category of people who mostly use that account for PvE. In the other thread you also mention 60%+ being PvErs, and here you tell me 50%. The actual number is a lot lower.


The data were provided by CCP Quant during Fanfest 2015. Here's the graphs he used to explain his findings, conveniently pasted together by yours truly:

http://i.imgur.com/haNCwOB.png

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an alpha / And so it's you
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#5929 - 2016-04-24 13:36:41 UTC
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
8% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to PvP.
12% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to chat and skill up.
25% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to "level up their Ravens".
25% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters for PvE.
30% of money comes from subscribers who use their accounts and characters to do a bit of everything ingame, PvP included.

Of course, everybody does some PvE. That's why PvE accounts for 90% of all ingame activity, although dedicated PvErs are just 50% of the subscribers.


Show me the study that gave you these numbers please.

Also, alt accounts that just used to fun PvP mains fall into the category of people who mostly use that account for PvE. In the other thread you also mention 60%+ being PvErs, and here you tell me 50%. The actual number is a lot lower.


The data were provided by CCP Quant during Fanfest 2015. Here's the graphs he used to explain his findings, conveniently pasted together by yours truly:

http://i.imgur.com/haNCwOB.png


I don't see any type of player that ONLY does PvE in those graphs.
Evasive Shadow Assassin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5930 - 2016-04-24 13:38:46 UTC
Yiole Gionglao
#5931 - 2016-04-24 13:53:34 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
8% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to PvP.
12% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to chat and skill up.
25% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters to "level up their Ravens".
25% of money comes from subscribers who mostly use their accounts and characters for PvE.
30% of money comes from subscribers who use their accounts and characters to do a bit of everything ingame, PvP included.

Of course, everybody does some PvE. That's why PvE accounts for 90% of all ingame activity, although dedicated PvErs are just 50% of the subscribers.


Show me the study that gave you these numbers please.

Also, alt accounts that just used to fun PvP mains fall into the category of people who mostly use that account for PvE. In the other thread you also mention 60%+ being PvErs, and here you tell me 50%. The actual number is a lot lower.


The data were provided by CCP Quant during Fanfest 2015. Here's the graphs he used to explain his findings, conveniently pasted together by yours truly:

http://i.imgur.com/haNCwOB.png


I don't see any type of player that ONLY does PvE in those graphs.


Ishtanchuk haves 2 or maybe 3 solo kills in her killboard. But I mostly don't PvP. I would hesitate seriously about considering me a PvPer just because I've killed 3 guys in 7 years. Or maybe 2, now I don't remember exactly...

Anyway, I wrote "mostly", because even a Raven-leveler may be ganked each now and then and thus he's a PvPer or something.

Also, you can see that there is no archetype who never does any PvE. Thus the reward for PvE is within reach for everyone, even people who rarely undock or travel. Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an alpha / And so it's you
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#5932 - 2016-04-24 14:07:39 UTC
Evasive Shadow Assassin wrote:
Ria ur arguing for arguments sake


no **** off

Yiole Gionglao wrote:
Ishtanchuk haves 2 or maybe 3 solo kills in her killboard. But I mostly don't PvP. I would hesitate seriously about considering me a PvPer just because I've killed 3 guys in 7 years. Or maybe 2, now I don't remember exactly...

Anyway, I wrote "mostly", because even a Raven-leveler may be ganked each now and then and thus he's a PvPer or something.

Also, you can see that there is no archetype who never does any PvE. Thus the reward for PvE is within reach for everyone, even people who rarely undock or travel. Roll


Your arguement was that the 50% of players are strictly PvE and they deserve this reward to their playstyle. Your numbers are wrong. The mechanic itself is undesirable, and the proposed implementation makes it even worse, making you having to alarm clock if you want optimal results. And to top it all off, the SP bonus increases your daily training amount by about 17%, so it's a sizeable penalty if you're unable to partake in playing for any reason.

You're just wrong.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5933 - 2016-04-24 17:52:12 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:

... the SP bonus increases your daily training amount by about 17%, so it's a sizeable penalty if you're unable to partake in playing for any reason...

It's not a penalty

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Yiole Gionglao
#5934 - 2016-04-24 17:57:43 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:

... the SP bonus increases your daily training amount by about 17%, so it's a sizeable penalty if you're unable to partake in playing for any reason...

It's not a penalty


Exactly. A penalty is when they take something yours, yet this is not your cookie until you earn it. Not getting a cookie because you didn't earn it is not a penalty.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an alpha / And so it's you
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#5935 - 2016-04-24 18:27:19 UTC
Good afternoon, everyone!

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."
Kryptik Kai
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5936 - 2016-04-24 18:33:58 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:

... the SP bonus increases your daily training amount by about 17%, so it's a sizeable penalty if you're unable to partake in playing for any reason...

It's not a penalty

This is the part some people really seem to struggle with for some reason.

Roll

"Shiny.  Lets be bad guys." -Jayne Cobb
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#5937 - 2016-04-24 18:38:54 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
It's not a penalty


There's a maximum amount of SP you can earn each day. This 10k extra is on top of the maximum, which makes it the new maximum. Not earning it is a penalty.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5938 - 2016-04-24 18:45:47 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
It's not a penalty


There's a maximum amount of SP you can earn each day. This 10k extra is on top of the maximum, which makes it the new maximum. Not earning it is a penalty.

Not earning it is a lost opportunity.

You might as well say that not being able to afford a full set of +5s to maximize sp/hour is a penalty. CCP offers an opportunity to everyone. Missing that opportunity, for whatever reason, is in no way a penalty.

If I work 40 hours per week at a set rate/hour, an offer to get paid more to work OT is a bonus, but if I choose not to work extra, that's not a penalty to my pay.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#5939 - 2016-04-24 18:48:46 UTC
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#5940 - 2016-04-24 18:57:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
RoAnnon wrote:
Not earning it is a lost opportunity.

You might as well say that not being able to afford a full set of +5s to maximize sp/hour is a penalty. CCP offers an opportunity to everyone. Missing that opportunity, for whatever reason, is in no way a penalty.

If I work 40 hours per week at a set rate/hour, an offer to get paid more to work OT is a bonus, but if I choose not to work extra, that's not a penalty to my pay.


Yes, having +4 implants instead of +5 means you get less skillpoints in an allotted period of time. Welcome to the wonderful world of opportunity cost. Sleeping instead of working is an opportunity cost too. People hammered on clone costs as it was "preventing them from PvPing in frigates" and it got removed. Learning skills got removed. And now we have this. EVE design has taken a 540 degree turn.