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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Fleet Commander Ship

Author
Eyhoma
White-Noise
#1 - 2016-04-23 09:34:09 UTC
So at fanfest the idea of a FC ship with an OP tank was brought up.

Sounded kind of wonky to me. What about the ability to do a ride-along? It could be that he docks his pod in one of the ships in the fleet, or perhaps can FC from a ship which fit a special module, but it wouldn't show up on overview which ship was carrying the FC.
Kieron VonDeux
#2 - 2016-04-23 09:53:51 UTC
I tried to get the discussion going as well, but not many opinions yet.

As for your ideas,

A ride along type of idea has always resulted with Dev reply of "bad things happen in Database if you try that". I don't think that has changed.

As for module, what would stop players from using that mod to just get massive tank bonus to save their ass when they are in trouble?



Eyhoma
White-Noise
#3 - 2016-04-23 10:53:27 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
I tried to get the discussion going as well, but not many opinions yet.

As for your ideas,

A ride along type of idea has always resulted with Dev reply of "bad things happen in Database if you try that". I don't think that has changed.

As for module, what would stop players from using that mod to just get massive tank bonus to save their ass when they are in trouble?





Ah, I guess I didn't explain myself that well. For the module I was thinking of a remote camera option, like telepresence.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#4 - 2016-04-23 16:41:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Your proposal is incredibly more complicated than what most people want.

We want a ship with extremely limited offensive capabilities, but insane tank. Passing a capsule around like a hot potato is just a side trip that really doesn't do what we want. The FC still needs to be in command of his own ship.

Headshotting an FC is a major problem in large fights. Either a ship with nearly no offensive capabilities but massive tank, or module that prevents the user from activating cynos or offensive modules in return for massive defensive bonuses is the general idea.

Of the two, the ship would be easier to implement, less gameplay issues with activating the module in unintended situation.

Just a massive brick, with triple+ defensive bonuses to push the EHP up to a level where it cant easily be headshot in a large fleet fight. And a role bonus that disallows Cyno's, and the use of Ewar.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2016-04-23 16:44:18 UTC
Eyhoma wrote:
So at fanfest the idea of a FC ship with an OP tank was brought up.

Sounded kind of wonky to me. What about the ability to do a ride-along? It could be that he docks his pod in one of the ships in the fleet, or perhaps can FC from a ship which fit a special module, but it wouldn't show up on overview which ship was carrying the FC.


Idea is you can be killed but are hard to just headshot
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2016-04-23 16:47:42 UTC
And how much is enough EHP?

I remember alphafleets one or two shotting carriers back in the day, and that's just with battleships. Bring in high angle guns, or some of the new doomsdays, and your EHP wall is going to have to rival a titan if you want guaranteed survival.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#7 - 2016-04-23 17:02:54 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
And how much is enough EHP?

I remember alphafleets one or two shotting carriers back in the day, and that's just with battleships. Bring in high angle guns, or some of the new doomsdays, and your EHP wall is going to have to rival a titan if you want guaranteed survival.


Doesn't need to be immune to that level of damage, but enough that it can't easily be volleyed through the primary defense layer by say a 150 man fleet.

In exchange for crippling nearly all offensive capabilities, along with a role bonus that prevented the use of Ewar or Cynos, I would say around 500k EHP in the primary defensive band with a fairly shiny fit. On a BC hull. And around 150k EHP less on a cruiser version.

That would give all four races a fleet command ship on par roughly with a slaved FC Damnation, instead of this silly situation where the Damnation can get close to 650k EHP, and the best the shield Command ships can get if they want to fit a MWD is around 250k, with close to a third of the primary buffer in shield that a Damnation gets with armor.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2016-04-23 17:15:16 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
And how much is enough EHP?

I remember alphafleets one or two shotting carriers back in the day, and that's just with battleships. Bring in high angle guns, or some of the new doomsdays, and your EHP wall is going to have to rival a titan if you want guaranteed survival.


And then you wind up getting to much hp so fcs are invincible in smaller fights. Even without that problem I'm sure we would find unintended uses for a ship with that much ehp
Kieron VonDeux
#9 - 2016-04-23 19:35:34 UTC
What about damage mitigation like the new Citadels?

They have a max dps they can receive so regardless who is shooting at them they will live for a certain period of time.
So small fleets could kill them nearly as fast and the largest fleets.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#10 - 2016-04-23 21:56:01 UTC
Don't carriers have a temp invulnerability field (i mean a real one). Why not down size that, but at the same time reduces max locked targets to 0 as well as switches off cynos...

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Kieron VonDeux
#11 - 2016-04-23 21:58:34 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Don't carriers have a temp invulnerability field (i mean a real one). Why not down size that, but at the same time reduces max locked targets to 0 as well as switches off cynos...


Can be exploited to get rid of cynos really fast after your fleetmate has jumped into system.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#12 - 2016-04-23 22:52:49 UTC
Or you could command your fleet in a covert ops boat so you don't have to worry so much getting shot but giving important commands to your buddies.

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Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#13 - 2016-04-23 22:58:31 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Or you could command your fleet in a covert ops boat so you don't have to worry so much getting shot but giving important commands to your buddies.


As long as you don't care about little things like telling distances to targets, if enemies are catching reps, when they die, being able to fleet warp the fleet around effectively, people warping to you and decloaking your squishy ass, or actually maneuvering the fleet where you want them to go during battle.

You know, like 70% of the FC's job?
Eyhoma
White-Noise
#14 - 2016-04-23 23:31:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Eyhoma
So here's my refined idea. Give players the ability to broadcast their telemetry to another player. This could be mediated by a module, or maybe just a general player option. This would allow one player to enable another see their overview info. The client would render the shared data picture in-a-picture style or in a modal way. The receiving player would see the other players in-space view, but would have his own camera to manipulate and the overview will be displayed according to the receiving players preferences. The broadcaster and the receiver can end at any time.

A happy side effect could be that this would give Eve cinematographers new tools to work with by adding a new way to capture live footage and by providing a backbone for a telemetry recording and replay feature.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#15 - 2016-04-23 23:42:35 UTC
Eyhoma wrote:
So here's my refined idea. Give players the ability to broadcast their telemetry to another player. This could be mediated by a module, or maybe just a general player option. This would allow one player to enable another see their overview info. The client would render the shared data picture in-a-picture style or in a modal way. The receiving player would see the other players in-space view, but would have his own camera to manipulate and the overview will be displayed according to the receiving players preferences. The broadcaster can end at any time.

A happy side effect could be that this would give Eve cinematographers new tools to work with by adding a new way to capture live footage and by providing a backbone for a telemetry recording and replay feature.


Once again, waaaaay too complicated, and also doesn't help solve the issue.

An FC viewing through another overview still cant do things like lock targets, order fleet warps, or maneuver their ship and by extension the fleet. An FC that can't actually command the fleet isn't much use.
Eyhoma
White-Noise
#16 - 2016-04-23 23:59:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Eyhoma
Anhenka wrote:
Once again, waaaaay too complicated, and also doesn't help solve the issue.

An FC viewing through another overview still cant do things like lock targets, order fleet warps, or maneuver their ship and by extension the fleet. An FC that can't actually command the fleet isn't much use.


Honestly I think if you consider the unintended consequences the could result from creating a supertank for this role it doesn't seem all that complicated at all.

Your other point can be address by counting the receiver as *present* in broadcasters location for giving fleet orders. The receiver's camera orientation could count as the receivers 'heading'.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#17 - 2016-04-24 00:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Eyhoma wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Once again, waaaaay too complicated, and also doesn't help solve the issue.

An FC viewing through another overview still cant do things like lock targets, order fleet warps, or maneuver their ship and by extension the fleet. An FC that can't actually command the fleet isn't much use.


Honestly I think if you consider the unintended consequences the could result from creating a supertank for this role it doesn't seem all that complicated at all.

Your other point can be address by counting the receiver as *present* in broadcasters location for giving fleet orders.


Please explain the unintended consequences of a ship with a huge tank that can't light cynos, and can't use Ewar, and has little to no DPS. I'm usually fairly good at figuring out how to break a mechanic, but I'm not seeing much here. I suppose you could use one as a tanky drone bunny, but without Ewar resist it's just going to get jammed/damped down into uselessness as a trigger ship.


And yes, your idea is complicated, regardless of the viability of other ideas. It's really complicated.
Bobman Smith
Solitary Confinement 4 One
#18 - 2016-06-27 21:12:15 UTC
I think the idea of keeping FC a little bit safer is a good idea but how its implemented needs to be considered as we definitely don't want any bull sh*t unbalanced mechanics that get abused. FC should not be immune to the fight. I also like the idea that if were going to have on grid links in Command Ship, they should in fact be command ships. So lets build off that platform to start.

Using Command Destroyers and Battlecruisers I think is a perfect place to start. They can be modded to keep up with ships a class lower and higher then themselves.

Give them a high spot module that prevents them from warping, makes them unlockable and increases their speed. Give it a 10 second activation with a reactivation timer. And of course, cant use any offensive modules like weapons/ewar but can use drones.

Idea behind this is it cant be useful as a 'personal transport ship'. And it should not be invulnerable. It should be vulnerable when it needs to move around from grid to grid, system to system and if it has to jump from one spot to another on grid, there should be a vulnerability that could be exploited if the enemy is ready for it. It should then also be subject to area of effect stuff like bombs and ECM bursts.

Adding extra EHP I think is broken. Lets not go there...

T3 immune to remote reps. They should be the most powerful solo/small gang ships but not useful for large fleets as T2 ships should be used. Remove Insurance from game. Ban Frigate Pirate Ships from Novice FW Plexs. Buy me Ice cream please!

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#19 - 2016-06-28 16:54:52 UTC
I think the correct answer you're looking for is to have backup FCs. Someone shouldn't get special treatment in battle just because a corp/alliance sees them as an FC.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2016-06-28 17:02:30 UTC
Bobman Smith wrote:
I think the idea of keeping FC a little bit safer is a good idea but how its implemented needs to be considered as we definitely don't want any bull sh*t unbalanced mechanics that get abused. FC should not be immune to the fight. I also like the idea that if were going to have on grid links in Command Ship, they should in fact be command ships. So lets build off that platform to start.

Using Command Destroyers and Battlecruisers I think is a perfect place to start. They can be modded to keep up with ships a class lower and higher then themselves.

Give them a high spot module that prevents them from warping, makes them unlockable and increases their speed. Give it a 10 second activation with a reactivation timer. And of course, cant use any offensive modules like weapons/ewar but can use drones.

Idea behind this is it cant be useful as a 'personal transport ship'. And it should not be invulnerable. It should be vulnerable when it needs to move around from grid to grid, system to system and if it has to jump from one spot to another on grid, there should be a vulnerability that could be exploited if the enemy is ready for it. It should then also be subject to area of effect stuff like bombs and ECM bursts.

Adding extra EHP I think is broken. Lets not go there...



Please do this. I will not buy up every eos in jita the second word of it leaks, honest. Nothing could possibly go wrong with an 800+ DPS ship that can't be locked.
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