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Goons being Goons

Author
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#21 - 2016-04-23 07:39:53 UTC
The bounds of decency change depending on how easily an offender can be reached and dealt with.
To expect anything else is naive.
Either don't mention personal things like that or take the hazing in stride with good humour, forget the moral argument, it can't be applied to people beyond the reach of consequences. Also forget the grrgoons bit too, every group has people who act like this.
So very nothing to see here.





Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#22 - 2016-04-23 08:20:47 UTC
One guy was banned over this.

Others were mercilessly downvoted, the biggest punishment of all.

Additionally, the screenshot were of the general twitch stream, not messages they were specifically making appear themselves.

But sure goons are the problem when you want to make moral hay

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Demica Diaz
SE-1
#23 - 2016-04-23 08:30:49 UTC
This is hardly anything new and to rise up for. Perhaps if you are new to the internet. This behavior is quite common and hardly worth upsetting yourself with.

Aiwha
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2016-04-23 09:44:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Aiwha
Khanh'rhh wrote:
One guy was banned over this.

Others were mercilessly downvoted, the biggest punishment of all.

Additionally, the screenshot were of the general twitch stream, not messages they were specifically making appear themselves.

But sure goons are the problem when you want to make moral hay



He wasn't banned for that ****, he was banned for being an MRA. Your CSM rep seemed to be enjoying the thread though.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.

Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2016-04-23 09:49:46 UTC
Demica Diaz wrote:
This is hardly anything new and to rise up for. Perhaps if you are new to the internet. This behavior is quite common and hardly worth upsetting yourself with.


The Gamergate mess begs to differ.

Common, yes. Acceptable, no. They weren't harassing an avatar.

A signature :o

Bedreddin
97997
#26 - 2016-04-23 09:59:27 UTC
This is not something that goes on just on 3rd party forums, it's rife within the game as evidenced by the Vile Rat character appropriation in the last couple of days, what happened with the death of the BoB guy, the pubescent diatribe that infects many corp teamspeaks and chats, and drives many women to female only corps, and on it goes ad nauseum.

To suggest this is nothing worth getting upset over is to accept that this kind of behaviour is normal, and it's not. In the same way juvenile and disruptive participants are kicked from comms and corps so should players who exhibit these kinds of attitudes and behaviours. Yes the community at large is responsible, but as part of that so should this be lead by CCP and corp/alliance heads. These kinds of attitudes and behaviours are toxic, and it disturbs me that we more or less turn a blind eye to this in how we see and represent the EVE culture.

I know this is not all of EVE players, but surely there should be an active desire to educate as to what is acceptable.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2016-04-23 11:14:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Internet is a toxic space inhabited by memes in frantical search for some form of authenticity. Tank frustration and proceed at your own risk.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Josef Djugashvilis
#28 - 2016-04-23 13:00:18 UTC
Rattman wrote:
Dont concern yourself.

Mittens has already ordered CCP not to do anything about this


Your comment made me smile...but then again...

This is not a signature.

Amyclas Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2016-04-23 13:18:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Amyclas Amatin
Goon forums are a bad place. ISDs, could you do something about this?

Confirming it's also full of porn, which is illegal in real life in many countries, and definitely against the Eula.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2016-04-23 13:30:21 UTC
our forums are bad because everyone uses jabber now

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Amyclas Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2016-04-23 14:01:21 UTC
Bedreddin wrote:
This is not something that goes on just on 3rd party forums, it's rife within the game as evidenced by the Vile Rat character appropriation in the last couple of days, what happened with the death of the BoB guy, the pubescent diatribe that infects many corp teamspeaks and chats, and drives many women to female only corps, and on it goes ad nauseum.

To suggest this is nothing worth getting upset over is to accept that this kind of behaviour is normal, and it's not. In the same way juvenile and disruptive participants are kicked from comms and corps so should players who exhibit these kinds of attitudes and behaviours. Yes the community at large is responsible, but as part of that so should this be lead by CCP and corp/alliance heads. These kinds of attitudes and behaviours are toxic, and it disturbs me that we more or less turn a blind eye to this in how we see and represent the EVE culture.

I know this is not all of EVE players, but surely there should be an active desire to educate as to what is acceptable.



There are also more girls in goons than in most places. It's partly due to a larger population and also because our "toxic culture" has room for them to partake in.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Aiwha
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2016-04-23 14:14:54 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Goon forums are a bad place. ISDs, could you do something about this?

Confirming it's also full of porn, which is illegal in real life in many countries, and definitely against the Eula.




Its not the forums you wingnut. Its harassing other players getting ENDORSED by your CSM rep, and tolerated by your goddamn alliance exec. Although we all already knew The Mittani iwas a shitheel when it comes to harassing people.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.

Bedreddin
97997
#33 - 2016-04-23 14:15:34 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Bedreddin wrote:
This is not something that goes on just on 3rd party forums, it's rife within the game as evidenced by the Vile Rat character appropriation in the last couple of days, what happened with the death of the BoB guy, the pubescent diatribe that infects many corp teamspeaks and chats, and drives many women to female only corps, and on it goes ad nauseum.

To suggest this is nothing worth getting upset over is to accept that this kind of behaviour is normal, and it's not. In the same way juvenile and disruptive participants are kicked from comms and corps so should players who exhibit these kinds of attitudes and behaviours. Yes the community at large is responsible, but as part of that so should this be lead by CCP and corp/alliance heads. These kinds of attitudes and behaviours are toxic, and it disturbs me that we more or less turn a blind eye to this in how we see and represent the EVE culture.

I know this is not all of EVE players, but surely there should be an active desire to educate as to what is acceptable.



There are also more girls in goons than in most places. It's partly due to a larger population and also because our "toxic culture" has room for them to partake in.


Firstly, women not girls :)

Secondly, just because there's women in a group doesn't change the 'culture' or excuse the toxicity.

I'm not singling out goons. As I said this happens in many corps in EVE. Point is its ugly, juvenile, and has no place. Humour can be broad without descending to this. The meta the same.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#34 - 2016-04-23 15:32:40 UTC
Aiwha wrote:

He wasn't banned for that ****, he was banned for being an MRA. Your CSM rep seemed to be enjoying the thread though.

His 'being an MRA' was defending the actions of the people trolling kitty, so they're basically one and the same.

That he was baited into regurgitating dumb talking points was irrelevant.
Aiwha wrote:
Its not the forums you wingnut. Its harassing other players getting ENDORSED by your CSM rep, and tolerated by your goddamn alliance exec. Although we all already knew The Mittani iwas a shitheel when it comes to harassing people.


Aryth's defence [that I was witness to] largely consisted of asking around to see who was doing it. When the conclusion was that it was largely non-imperium people doing the trolling, he dropped it.

He was 'defending' them by pointing out it wasn't them doing it.

Sorry that your witchhunt it pretty thin on this occasion

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#35 - 2016-04-23 16:02:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
Khanh'rhh wrote:
When the conclusion was that it was largely non-imperium people doing the trolling, he dropped it.

I'm sure this was a thorough investigation and I'm sure all the guilty parties admitted their guilt in this court of law.

As a crass viewer it was frighteningly obvious at the time that it was CFC members (yes plural) doing all of this - but until the forum images came up there wasn't anything specifically tying that group to those actions.

I don't actually see this as an issue for CCP with the rules as they currently stand though - EXCEPT for whether or not the appointed CSM is appropriate for the position but I wouldn't object to the EULA being revised to prevent bringing the name of the game into disrepute in future (and getting rid of these toxic players).


As for the VR stuff, it's not harassment but it's a joke in very bad taste - again nothing that contravenes the current EULA but also something that's very hard to legislate against in the future... when is a bad joke inappropriate for in-game (or out of game) channels? There's been worse jokes in South Park about dead celebrities.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Galaxxis
Unicorn Rampage
#36 - 2016-04-23 16:07:03 UTC
Don't worry, most Goons only play this game in between prison sentences.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#37 - 2016-04-23 16:40:46 UTC
Bedreddin wrote:
Surely at some point CCP and the upper echelons of corps have to take on the responsibility of addressing this kind of s**t? Yes humour is broad, but when it crosses the boundary to harassment, it's not acceptable. The only people you find defending these kind of actions are the hormonally and evolutionary challenged.
I completely agree, CCP should step in. Mainly because it would be funny watching have the reddit posting community get banned along with the goons with bad taste in humour, hen doubly funny watching everyone be so surprised that plenty of non-goons are also horrible people and plenty of goons are good ones.

Aiwha wrote:
Its not the forums you wingnut. Its harassing other players getting ENDORSED by your CSM rep, and tolerated by your goddamn alliance exec. Although we all already knew The Mittani iwas a shitheel when it comes to harassing people.
But you say that like goons are the only people doing it and like CCP should do something about what people talk about on third party websites, and private third party websites at that.

I still find it funny though that often the same people getting on their high horse about real life harassment have no problem using photos of Mittani in offensive material against him and have no problem attacking him over he real life career choices. Hypocrites aren't allowed high horses doncha know.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#38 - 2016-04-23 18:22:20 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
I'm sure this was a thorough investigation and I'm sure all the guilty parties admitted their guilt in this court of law.

Saw several questions related to it, which boiled down to:

"Whats going on, is this us or everyone?"
"Pretty much just everyone"
"Well OK then"

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2016-04-23 18:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Shallanna Yassavi
The thing about third-party sites is it gets very messy linking that name on that site to this name on this site.

If people start getting banned over EVE-related stuff they say on a third-party site, stuff like this will happen:
1: False-flag operations. People will claim to be other players on third-party sites in an attempt to get them banned.
2: People will use bogus RL data on third-party sites so even a subpoena of records won't link $that_guy_there to $that_guy_here.

At best, a ban wave would be a propaganda victory and a thinning of the herd, though not the one the grrgoons types seem to want.
The Internet is a pretty free place. People like the ones in the OP (and the guys who knock severs offline to control the outcome of battles) are the kind which make for a very good pretext to take that freedom away.
... and this is poking at real-world politics.

A signature :o

Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#40 - 2016-04-23 18:40:29 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
When the conclusion was that it was largely non-imperium people doing the trolling, he dropped it.

I'm sure this was a thorough investigation and I'm sure all the guilty parties admitted their guilt in this court of law.


This is where one would bring in intent.

People are claiming he supports and defends the harassment in question, while (even looking at the logs alone) it seems he's saying nothing more than that he is defending the alliance.

Never does he, or the logs, specify what he is defending them from. Hell, those quotes are from the part of the pastebin dump that did not have timestamps and thus are obviously not trustworthy as far as it comes to context.

Let's say you have a log that says something like;

A: "Did you murder C?"
B: "Yes, I did."

When the real logs actually were;

A: "Did you murder C?"
B: "No."
A: "But you did know C?"
B: "Yes, I did."

Whatever the truth of the matter is, you are all going into serious re**** territory.

Nyan

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