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No Market for Medium Citadel.
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Jhon Kirk
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-04-23 15:05:02 UTC
Well this morning i watched the Stream from Fanfest 2016, and it was shared that Medium Citadels will no be able to fit the market Module. I agree with majority of this but for a smaller corp or group that causally plays to come up with 7 - 10 billion isk to afford the Large Citadel is to me a bit rough. To do this i would say maybe make a module that allows a limited Market in the Medium so we can actuall make a cash flow to be able to upgrade to a large. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Siigari Kitawa
Operation Sleepless
#2 - 2016-04-23 15:08:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Siigari Kitawa
My thoughts are we knew about this for a long time, and if you want to band together with some other people to afford one, then you can do that.

Alternatively if you save up and have a plan for operation you can do that too. Or you can use somebody else's. Remember these are destroyable structures.

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-04-23 15:31:38 UTC
This is not news. It's been known for quite a while.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Jhon Kirk
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-04-23 15:32:55 UTC
I guess i misread that, but still :S
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2016-04-23 16:13:38 UTC
No o9fenmse but if you cannot afford a 10bn citadel you can't afford to stock a market at all.
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#6 - 2016-04-23 23:23:25 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
No o9fenmse but if you cannot afford a 10bn citadel you can't afford to stock a market at all.


That is completely wrong, I used to stock both a null market and a lowsec market with only 10bn. The lowsec one I covered all basic items and some ships, and the nullsec ones I filled gaps like rigs and such. It's quite easy to stock a lowsec market from the ground up with even 4bn as long as you don't go above cruiser size and don't bring in uselessly expensive stuff that won't sell.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-04-23 23:27:41 UTC
Jhon Kirk wrote:
I guess i misread that, but still :S

But still what?

Complaining now, 3-4 days before release is way too late. You missed your opportunity to potentially impact the design.

However, every game mechanic has its limits. If you want a market, then find a way to build a large Citadel.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
#8 - 2016-04-24 07:24:51 UTC
Why does everyone wish to put up a citadel and have a seperate market? There won't be enough customers to shop at the gazillion citadels being put up.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#9 - 2016-04-24 07:30:26 UTC
There is a lot of shops in my town and only sometimes someone is shopping there. Also, I could not find the item I wanted. That is why we have Jita.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#10 - 2016-04-24 07:59:16 UTC
To be blunt this is a mistake by CCP, and I would love to know their reasons for this as I cannot logically see any, furthermore is it wrong to have lots of small markets setup all over the place. Didn't they realise that there was security in having large numbers of markets all over the place like a shoal of fish. Also an indy corp has to put all its eggs in one basket and can not fall back to a lessor citadel to keep at it, because of the current structure of hisec this decision makes it rather unlikely that any hisec entity will rise up and set up a market hub and that is the shame of it.

I became aware of this a couple of months back when I was de-subbed and said it was a bad decision on EN24 and it was not that long ago that this decision seems to have been made. It was not evident early when I participated on the forums in regards to citadels, because I was only ever aiming to build a medium one for market reasons.

This decision will not help create a new dynamic hisec, and they should rethink it. That being said I will look to support any hisec indy entity that wants to set up a large, I guess its time to try to form a hisec coalition...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#11 - 2016-04-24 08:52:26 UTC
No, this decision is the right one imo. This isnt about mom and pop vs the big box stores as really in todays day and age a single person can get the Large citadel isk actually quite easily even if they are casual. Yup you will have to be smarter than the average bear but not by much imo. Yes this does price out the lil guys, but frankly no little guy should be looking at that sort of thing. Kinda like how not everyone that wants to set up a market in RL will or should.

And yes a lil late to the party. But thats okay too.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#12 - 2016-04-24 09:00:43 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
There is a lot of shops in my town and only sometimes someone is shopping there. Also, I could not find the item I wanted. That is why we have Jita.


But hey! If you are a trader in a Citadel, your market wares can be almost-destroyed until you pay a 10% tax and retrieve them from a random lowsec NPC station! (or may just wait until, and if, the owner of the Citadel builds another one in the same system). Surely that's an incentive enough to set up your shop in a Citadel rather than Jita!
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#13 - 2016-04-24 09:07:59 UTC
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
Daerrol wrote:
No o9fenmse but if you cannot afford a 10bn citadel you can't afford to stock a market at all.


That is completely wrong, I used to stock both a null market and a lowsec market with only 10bn. The lowsec one I covered all basic items and some ships, and the nullsec ones I filled gaps like rigs and such. It's quite easy to stock a lowsec market from the ground up with even 4bn as long as you don't go above cruiser size and don't bring in uselessly expensive stuff that won't sell.


I agree that you don't need huge capital to stock a market.

However, will other people want to invest in a citadel not owned/defended by a large entity? With good planning and dedication small corps can certainly find a niche with Citadels I'm sure, but to develop into anytjing like even a minor regional hub you'd need to earn public's 'perception' of stability/worthiness. This could be a challenge. Maybe not a financial challenge in terms of capitals required, but a small entity with such ambitions will have to play very good political/diplomatic game. I think it will be do-able, but not by a corp who's very casual about the game.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-04-24 09:13:32 UTC
Medium Citadels are replacing POSes. Large citadels are replacing outposts. If you cannot afford to plant an outpost, you cannot afford a large citadel.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#15 - 2016-04-24 09:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Pookoko wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
Daerrol wrote:
No o9fenmse but if you cannot afford a 10bn citadel you can't afford to stock a market at all.


That is completely wrong, I used to stock both a null market and a lowsec market with only 10bn. The lowsec one I covered all basic items and some ships, and the nullsec ones I filled gaps like rigs and such. It's quite easy to stock a lowsec market from the ground up with even 4bn as long as you don't go above cruiser size and don't bring in uselessly expensive stuff that won't sell.


I agree that you don't need huge capital to stock a market.

However, will other people want to invest in a citadel not owned/defended by a large entity? With good planning and dedication small corps can certainly find a niche with Citadels I'm sure, but to develop into anytjing like even a minor regional hub you'd need to earn public's 'perception' of stability/worthiness. This could be a challenge. Maybe not a financial challenge in terms of capitals required, but a small entity with such ambitions will have to play very good political/diplomatic game. I think it will be do-able, but not by a corp who's very casual about the game.



The problem is exactly that: CCP is gifting a few large alliances with a cash cow and several permanent wars in high sec.
All the other players will be gifted with higher prices, higher isk sinks (taxes will increase everywhere and the broker fee in NPC stations will increase) and higher risk.
It is a move that will befit the usual group of players. The others will adapt, but I doubbt they will enjoy it much.
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2016-04-24 10:03:04 UTC
large citadel isnt for " for a smaller corp or group that causally plays"...

People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back -  EvE
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#17 - 2016-04-24 10:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Garnoo wrote:
large citadel isnt for " for a smaller corp or group that causally plays"...

Medium citadel could have had a market module, but CCP want you to use large, because its like they designed it. There was nothing holding them. They just wanted to have progression in function for some unknown reason.
I would gladly set up a hot dog stand on the asteroid nearby, just for few ISK more, and to break the natural scenery with homely feeling of a human built structure.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#18 - 2016-04-24 13:36:49 UTC
Jhon Kirk wrote:
Well this morning i watched the Stream from Fanfest 2016, and it was shared that Medium Citadels will no be able to fit the market Module. I agree with majority of this but for a smaller corp or group that causally plays to come up with 7 - 10 billion isk to afford the Large Citadel is to me a bit rough. To do this i would say maybe make a module that allows a limited Market in the Medium so we can actuall make a cash flow to be able to upgrade to a large. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


A medium citadel is the equivalent of a POS. Who'd put their goods up for sale and leave them in a destructible structure owned by a group that can't even afford a large?

Especially when there are plenty of groups that can afford bigger citadels and will also be competing for those sweet, sweet transaction taxes?

tl;dr: your expectations were extremely unrealistic.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#19 - 2016-04-24 15:36:52 UTC
Yea this is true, from sisi logs:

15:36:24 Notify You can't fit Standup Market Hub I to Astrahus
Hound Halfhand
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#20 - 2016-04-24 21:55:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hound Halfhand
Is the OP trolling us?

First of all who doesn't have 10 bil lying around at this point. Large alliances really?

Second, you really want the large to have all the functionality of the medium for the 10th of the price? Then why would someone pay the larger amount?

I bet the OP will be back on this forums the minute someone hires the Marmites to burn it down, claiming his medium needs more tank and gank. About the same amount as the large citadel, just at a tenth of the cost.
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