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Recurring Opportunities coming soon

First post
Author
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1981 - 2016-04-22 01:13:43 UTC
ACESsiggy wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
this is the thing people keep comparing this to isk, its not even a comparable variable. isk can be made with any activity in eve, extra sp can only be made by shooting a rat, therefore it penalises every other activity.

ccp maybe you should have stuck this idea on the back burner till you actually had a solution for the pvp side of things and the rest of the characters who choose not to shoot rats instead of just throwing something into the game and hoping for the best and giving us a "well the pvp rewards is a little tricky so we will think about that another time, till then shoot some rats so we can get some numbers together and just deal with it"



SKill points or isk - it is a sandbox so go gather your toys and do as you wish. If you feel that your toys are being taken away by CCP I totally agree you should be upset. But this notion that you're being penalized is absurd and holds no basis for an argument because nothing is forcing you to take part in Opportunities. And As a veteran player such as yourself you know 10k skill points is very helpful for a new player but Being butt hurt for roughly 4million sp during the entire year (that is of course you do them each and every day) is extremely sophomoric.

Cheers!

Rise answered that.

A not insignificant number of SP was the only "carrot" they thought they could dangle in front of us which we would actually go after.

A signature :o

Worf McGregor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1982 - 2016-04-22 03:06:26 UTC
Wow, 100 pages and counting, it is really interesting that there has been this much to be said about this topic of "Daily Opportunities coming soon". As stated, it is coming whether you want it or not. I am impressed if CCP even reads all of this. It looks like there were only a few that liked it or was ok with it. But, I was impressed that about a third of the comments had the facts wrong that CCP put out on the very first message.

CCP said, "The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). "

So just the first character (of possibly 3) on a account that does the required action (Which, so far, is to kill a NPC) gets 10,000SP. Even if that action was done in the course of doing that character's normal routine.

I.E. As a mining character, I go out to a belt and start mining. A rat (NPC) comes along, I deploy Drones, Blap, the rat is killed. I get 10,000SP {AND} the bounty on the rat in ISK. If I close the character down and start up the 2nd and later the 3rd character on that same account, in that same 22 hour period. Even if they kill a rat (NPC), they get nothing, but the bounty.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with this idea. I'll take the skill points. And because the 2nd and 3rd characters don't have anything being trained, I would start one of them up first, go kill the rat (or whatever other option CCP gives us) for the SP to assist that character's skill training. So that the first character that is utilizing the skill que can keep on training, but both characters can advance.

So yes, I would then log on with one of my other character(s) each and every day, a character that I would probably not even play (and have not even thought about). Then re-log back on with my main character and do my normal routine for the day.

So I say to all the negative commenting people, if you don't want to, then don't. You don't loose anything by not doing it, like the original 24 hour Skill Que. You just don't get the benefit if you don't.

Does anyone really need to say more?
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#1983 - 2016-04-22 03:55:14 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks



A slight amount of polish on a turd still leaves you with a turd.

Get rid of this idea. It's a big 'f you' to people that cannot log in regularly .

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1984 - 2016-04-22 06:30:40 UTC
Ivan Stoner wrote:
Its not relavent anymore how you dicuss about the Daily Opportunities. They are live on SISI. They will probably come with the Citadel Expansion.

A big thank you to CCP Rise to change Eve slowly to a Casual Game.



Not sure you can call it casual with forced login every 22 hours. More like welcome to grindsvile and prepare for yet another MMO dying.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1985 - 2016-04-22 06:36:13 UTC
Worf McGregor wrote:
Wow, 100 pages and counting, it is really interesting that there has been this much to be said about this topic of "Daily Opportunities coming soon". As stated, it is coming whether you want it or not. I am impressed if CCP even reads all of this. It looks like there were only a few that liked it or was ok with it. But, I was impressed that about a third of the comments had the facts wrong that CCP put out on the very first message.

CCP said, "The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). "

So just the first character (of possibly 3) on a account that does the required action (Which, so far, is to kill a NPC) gets 10,000SP. Even if that action was done in the course of doing that character's normal routine.

I.E. As a mining character, I go out to a belt and start mining. A rat (NPC) comes along, I deploy Drones, Blap, the rat is killed. I get 10,000SP {AND} the bounty on the rat in ISK. If I close the character down and start up the 2nd and later the 3rd character on that same account, in that same 22 hour period. Even if they kill a rat (NPC), they get nothing, but the bounty.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with this idea. I'll take the skill points. And because the 2nd and 3rd characters don't have anything being trained, I would start one of them up first, go kill the rat (or whatever other option CCP gives us) for the SP to assist that character's skill training. So that the first character that is utilizing the skill que can keep on training, but both characters can advance.

So yes, I would then log on with one of my other character(s) each and every day, a character that I would probably not even play (and have not even thought about). Then re-log back on with my main character and do my normal routine for the day.

So I say to all the negative commenting people, if you don't want to, then don't. You don't loose anything by not doing it, like the original 24 hour Skill Que. You just don't get the benefit if you don't.

Does anyone really need to say more?


Wow. Try to read the negative comments instead of drinking CCP koolaid. It's a well known psychological trick that works well on majority of humans and is a reason why it's implemented by failing MMOs trying to artificially boost their numbers (probably to defend those 30 mil $ they took in debt to faf around with 6v6 F2P FPS...). This is like saying that people can ignore gravity, they can't because this is how our brains work. If you are aware of the trick you can fight it but it still leaves a negative feeling. So either you get negative feeling from being forced to do **** every 22 hours or you get negative feeling for missing out.
There is a reason that every single game that implemented dailies has been dropping players faster and faster. EVE was unique in that it respected players time and that most of them (at least ones with actual money) have lives outside the game. No more. Grindsvile is here and numbers will drop even more as it's clear that the whole management is on some very bad shrooms.
Lance a'Lot
Socially Challenged
#1986 - 2016-04-22 06:47:22 UTC
I like it.

I see a lot of doomsday prophets complaining about the token reward of 10k SP.
I really don't see a problem with this, any more than with implants or boosters.
Isn't that basically the same thing, SP out of "nowhere"?

If the recurring opportunity isn't for you, just don't do it.
Just like any other game content.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1987 - 2016-04-22 07:15:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Axhind
Lance a'Lot wrote:
I like it.

I see a lot of doomsday prophets complaining about the token reward of 10k SP.
I really don't see a problem with this, any more than with implants or boosters.
Isn't that basically the same thing, SP out of "nowhere"?

If the recurring opportunity isn't for you, just don't do it.
Just like any other game content.


Boosters are just bad and main feature of them is that they are a money grab by CCP.

Implants and remaps reward you for long term thinking and planning which is the whole point of eve. Daily grind is exactly the opposite of that. It rewards robotic behaviour which is not appreciated by the people with more than zero brain cells. There are plenty of grindy games out there and barely any of them are making real money. EVE can't afford to get rid of everyone that has a job and/or family. Changing the game to fit 13y.o. kids is hardly going to bring in the money that CCP is hoping for. That crowd plays F2P games for free as disposable income of kids is pretty terrible compared to adults. However, adults usually don't have time to game every day for extended periods of time and being forced to do so will drive them away.
Lavayar
ANGELGARD.
The Initiative.
#1988 - 2016-04-22 07:31:05 UTC
Lance a'Lot wrote:

Just like any other game content.


No, it's not "like any other game content". There were two meta in EVE. Gain SP and gain ISK. Gaining SP was declared constant mechanics. All other mechanics provided ISK gain based on your activity. So, players appreciated EVE for this. And now CCP screwed this meta by implementing skill injectors. Next step dailies. And with each step its getting worse. I assume that many players will adapt to this new meta. But that will not be the same EVE as we know it.
Raging Bull Unchained
Signal Lost
#1989 - 2016-04-22 07:56:09 UTC
I feel like i just upgraded my account from trial to full at the right time.
This 10k skillpoints will come in very helpfully right now (@ ~900k skillpoints).

I wouldnt feel bad if there´s an limit like 5 or 10m skillpoints. Higher then that and you don´t get the "log in gift" would be totaly fine with me.
Lan Wang
Pandemic Alpha
#1990 - 2016-04-22 08:00:44 UTC
Raging Bull Unchained wrote:
I feel like i just upgraded my account from trial to full at the right time.
This 10k skillpoints will come in very helpfully right now (@ ~900k skillpoints).

I wouldnt feel bad if there´s an limit like 5 or 10m skillpoints. Higher then that and you don´t get the "log in gift" would be totaly fine with me.


thats sorta giving the middle finger to your loyal players

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Raging Bull Unchained
Signal Lost
#1991 - 2016-04-22 08:05:00 UTC
Why that? giving me 10k sp wont affect you.

And maybe it´s done to have more people logging in daily - if some stay online to play the game then it´s a good thing for everyone (i read an article about it (cant find it again right now :S)). Eve had once like almost 60k players logged in on the daily peek. now its like half of that.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1992 - 2016-04-22 08:11:31 UTC
Raging Bull Unchained wrote:
Why that? giving me 10k sp wont affect you.

And maybe it´s done to have more people logging in daily - if some stay online to play the game then it´s a good thing for everyone (i read an article about it (cant find it again right now :S)). Eve had once like almost 60k players logged in on the daily peek. now its like half of that.


At best. What they could implement is SP rewards for doing different parts of the New Player Experience (NPE). That would still be bad design as it trains the new players to expect huge rewards for every little step but it would be infinitely better than the every 22 hours grind that they are putting in now.

Sadly this is probably just a sign that CCP is in financial trouble and needs to inflate their numbers while leadership is stuck in the small gang pvp (or rather ganks) is what eve should be about. Effect is that they are doing their best to ruin everything that is unique about this game and turn it into yet another failed MMO by copying all the worst practices from the industry full of bad practices and very low on successful games that are actually making money.
Raging Bull Unchained
Signal Lost
#1993 - 2016-04-22 08:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Raging Bull Unchained
EvE is what... about 13 Years old? Another failed MMO feels not realy fitting well.

Also it´s not quite showing trouble. People could still be sending Money to CCP while not logging in for longer periods.
(not saying it's not true... just must be (doesnt have to be? *gnah, foreign languages*) no link between those 2).
Lance a'Lot
Socially Challenged
#1994 - 2016-04-22 08:57:35 UTC
Axhind wrote:
Lance a'Lot wrote:
I like it.

I see a lot of doomsday prophets complaining about the token reward of 10k SP.
I really don't see a problem with this, any more than with implants or boosters.
Isn't that basically the same thing, SP out of "nowhere"?

If the recurring opportunity isn't for you, just don't do it.
Just like any other game content.


Boosters are just bad and main feature of them is that they are a money grab by CCP.

So we hate CCP for wanting to make money. Check.

Axhind wrote:

Implants and remaps reward you for long term thinking and planning which is the whole point of eve. Daily grind is exactly the opposite of that. It rewards robotic behaviour which is not appreciated by the people with more than zero brain cells. There are plenty of grindy games out there and barely any of them are making real money.

So maybe the daily opportunity isn't about making money? We still hate CCP for even suggesting it. Check.
The "grind" you are describing consists of logging on once a day, undocking and killing a rat. It is also completely optional.

Axhind wrote:
EVE can't afford to get rid of everyone that has a job and/or family. Changing the game to fit 13y.o. kids is hardly going to bring in the money that CCP is hoping for. That crowd plays F2P games for free as disposable income of kids is pretty terrible compared to adults.

Are you going to stop playing the game over this? Really?

Axhind wrote:
However, adults usually don't have time to game every day for extended periods of time and being forced to do so will drive them away.

Extended periods of time? Again: Really?
Either way, who is holding the gun to your head and forcing you to do it?

Ria Nieyli
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#1995 - 2016-04-22 09:00:46 UTC
It's not an optional grind. Having that extra 10k sp every day will become the new norm. If you can't log in on any given day, you're missing out.
S3M
DAKKA DAKKA Inc
#1996 - 2016-04-22 11:08:36 UTC
I feel like I have to put my word in here as well.
Dailies are horrible. I've seen them in many games and people hated it. It's always like you don't have to do them but the whole point of implementing them in game (which CCP confirmed in their posts here) is to force players to login every period of time (in this case 22h).
The whole SP system in this game is one of the best thing that was implemented in EVE. A lot of people including me had a long break from this game yet their still kept subscription up to no fall behind their friends. It wouldn't happen now when you will put daily opportunities because I would feel that I still miss a big chunk of SP so why bother.
On top of that if you want to boost your logins make sure that people have something to do in game. I quite often "play eve" without going online. I sit with my corp on ts but I don't feel like grinding isk or don't have enough time/people to go PVP. Player housing, mini events, mini games etc. Those are the things that keep players in game. You can reward them with interesting skins to give them reason to play.
There is really no good way to implement dailies. They are the worst type of content designed to force people to play the game against their will. We are still paying for it upfront for every month so you get your share. If EVE is not entertaining enough for me to login more the way to fix it is not to whip me to play it more rather give me other reason to sit in game than spinning my ship on station.

BTW Remove those stupid adverts that I can hear even on desktop from captains quarters.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1997 - 2016-04-22 11:12:07 UTC
Worf McGregor wrote:
Wow, 100 pages and counting, it is really interesting that there has been this much to be said about this topic of "Daily Opportunities coming soon". As stated, it is coming whether you want it or not. I am impressed if CCP even reads all of this. It looks like there were only a few that liked it or was ok with it. But, I was impressed that about a third of the comments had the facts wrong that CCP put out on the very first message.

CCP said, "The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). "

So just the first character (of possibly 3) on a account that does the required action (Which, so far, is to kill a NPC) gets 10,000SP. Even if that action was done in the course of doing that character's normal routine.

I.E. As a mining character, I go out to a belt and start mining. A rat (NPC) comes along, I deploy Drones, Blap, the rat is killed. I get 10,000SP {AND} the bounty on the rat in ISK. If I close the character down and start up the 2nd and later the 3rd character on that same account, in that same 22 hour period. Even if they kill a rat (NPC), they get nothing, but the bounty.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with this idea. I'll take the skill points. And because the 2nd and 3rd characters don't have anything being trained, I would start one of them up first, go kill the rat (or whatever other option CCP gives us) for the SP to assist that character's skill training. So that the first character that is utilizing the skill que can keep on training, but both characters can advance.

So yes, I would then log on with one of my other character(s) each and every day, a character that I would probably not even play (and have not even thought about). Then re-log back on with my main character and do my normal routine for the day.

So I say to all the negative commenting people, if you don't want to, then don't. You don't loose anything by not doing it, like the original 24 hour Skill Que. You just don't get the benefit if you don't.

Does anyone really need to say more?


They changed their original proposal about thirty pages in...

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Shakira Akira
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1998 - 2016-04-22 13:19:31 UTC
Someone above mentioned something about skins.


What if instead of SP, the dailies rewarded Skins?

Set it so that depending on the size of rat that you kill, you get that sized skin.. Heck, they could even set it up so that you get the skin of the type of rat that you kill. Kill a Serpentis frigate, get a serpentis skin.


SInce people enjoy having skins, they will log in. But a the same time you're not causing the feel of a grind in people.


As mentioned many times before, thinking and planning ahead is what made Eve a great game. Adding in more ways to get instant SP (injectors are sadly here to stay) is just a bad idea that takes away that very important aspect that drew people to the game.

Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1999 - 2016-04-22 15:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Axhind
Lance a'Lot wrote:


Boosters are just bad and main feature of them is that they are a money grab by CCP.


So maybe the daily opportunity isn't about making money? We still hate CCP for even suggesting it. Check.
The "grind" you are describing consists of logging on once a day, undocking and killing a rat. It is also completely optional.

Are you going to stop playing the game over this? Really?


Extended periods of time? Again: Really?
Either way, who is holding the gun to your head and forcing you to do it?


No, we might hate CCP for wasting money we give them each month for each account on F2P disasters, phone apps that don't do anything useful and so on. Issue here is that we are already paying each month and that means they have a steady income and don't need to nickel and dime us to death as is common in F2P games.

The rest has been answered many times. In short, it's a psychological trick and is used because it misuses the way human brains work. That means that even people who are aware of it and have tons of SP will be bothered by it somewhere in the back of their mind. If it wasn't like that CCP would not implement it.

Considering that there are copious amounts of evidence that dailies are seen as forced and that they burn out players it's amazing that CCP insist on it but hey, it's their game and they are free to ruin it even if I would prefer for EVE to stick around another few decades.

Finally, when you grow up you will realise that there are things like jobs, business trips, vacations and so on that take away time from playing. Part of growing up is that you get to juggle your time and prioritise. Strangely enough nobody seems to prioritise non-essential forced grind of the dailies type.
Mister Ripley
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2000 - 2016-04-22 18:58:00 UTC
Axhind wrote:
No, we might hate CCP for wasting money we give them each month for each account on F2P disasters, phone apps that don't do anything useful and so on. Issue here is that we are already paying each month and that means they have a steady income and don't need to nickel and dime us to death as is common in F2P games.

I think you missed the part where we - paying customers - are also obliged to provide content to the sandbox. Big smileBig smile

We pay to have the daily opportunity to generate content! We wouldn't have that if we unsub, so be glad they give us this unique feature.