EVE General Discussion

No, what's sad is that you feel you can completely fabricate my points of view then call me a hypocrite. You don;t actually want to bother reading posts so I'm not going to bother writing them, I'll just switch to your tactic.

That's a fair point except for one thing, IWI have no reason to wardec anyone unless they specifically go out of their way to **** IWI off just like SMA did. Lenny only went ahead with the merc program because Eep and Ironbank said they would back him and why would they do that if he decided to dec someone who has done nothing to affect IWI in any way.

It's a game. Noone really has any reason to declare war against anyone, yet wars get declared. You're happy not fighting against having a third party application allowing someone to have an untouchable income stream, that's fine and I respect that opinion, but I can't agree with it.

I doubt any single group contains a big enough portion of their customer base to be worth not attacking, not to mention that attacking their alliance doesn't necessarily mean the individual members stop using IWI. As they've stated about this war though, their activity has doubled by funding this war, meaning more income. That seems like a pretty good reason to me to do it again.

Ed: and with the citadels release there's nothing stopping IWI pushing to hold the new Jita too. They have enough income from their third party application to pay mercs against half of eve if they have to until it's self sustaining, something not many other alliances would be capable of doing, as everyone else earns isk with in-game mechanics.

Let's get back to the basics here. Low/null space is supposedly defended by PvP oriented podsuleers. Diplomacy can aid in rallying more troops, money can buy mercenariers. But at the end of the day, you need PvPers.

Groups without them belong in highsec.

It is quite normal for PvPers to disdain carebears reaping fat rewards in vast swaths of rich space they can't defend.

I read your arguments, but I still don't believe ISK is the problem here. Solely focusing on PvE activities for years, ISK is pretty much the only thing you had (and still have) in spades. It was manned guns that lost the war, not empty wallets.

Bottom line: the area of space designed for your playstyle is Highsec.


Ironbank may hire mercs for another war at some point. ISK will change hands, and shortly afterwards ammunition shall be traded. This is healthy for the game and its economy. Stagnation serves no one. You too can use your stack of cash to hire mercs to do Your bidding!

As has been pointed out before, however ..... it wasn't Ironbank who started the war. It was the Goon's viceroyalty program. You basically declared war on the rest of EvE, and lost. Shadow Carted did a good number on y'all without funding, as did Gevlon with money out of his own back pocket.


What grrr goons are going to do now? Given the fact they're still in possession of most of their rolling assets, minus the fertile grounds, I expect the carebears to jump ship and the die-hards to reform into a military force once more. The carebears may end up renting their old space from new overlords; the more obnoxious ones nobody wants will likely end up running missions in highsec.

Given the amount of salt radiating from one person in particular here, I suggest you reassess your reasons for playing this game: what are your goals, and how do you want to achieve them? Is fun still in the package somewhere? War is fun - and we thank you for starting it! Now be a good sport, admit defeat and live to fight another day. Or don't fight and carebear it up in high -- all up to you. But please, for the love of BoB, don't be a sour loser.

Please remember your posts reflect poorly on the Spacemonkey Alliance as a whole - whether you like it or not. Do you really need to display more weakness, more tears, more salt? Is it wise to invite more response from those who would farm you for lulz?

In my humble opinion - and I may be off the mark here - but in my opinion, SMA needs time to regroup, recover from the blow and craft new plans. It is a time to lay low and bide your time to at some point later on emerge from the ashes and step into the spotlight of relevance. You are not doing your alliance a favour.

Dearest Lucas, if CCP had a problem with IWI they would deal with it, as this does not appear to be the case thus far, then IWI are perfectly entitled to fund anything they want to for any reason.

CCP set the rules of the play-box, stop crying and deal with it.

Actually, we are. You're posting in the wrong thread.

FTFY

******LEAKS******
Lukas Kell Diary
*****LEAKS*****

Day 21:
Posts #842
Still one voice screaming it's not fair. They'll break soon

Day 22:
Posts #871
Today I used a strawman argument I based from cherry-picked quotes. Jokes on them I accused them of doing that though

Day 23:
Posts #921
today I screamed into the void that my unique personal opinion is somehow a fact

Day 24:
Posts #1057
no one is liking my rambling posts must mean i have support on this subject and im not a crazy
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Guys I have a good source on these, more to come.

On topic: when exactly does the enemy stop being the enemy?

Example. Guys or corps who recently dropped out of The Imperium, applying to Your alliance. We don't want them to stop playing, obviously; but we also don't want fair weather friends, F1 monkeys or carebears. We can take some newbros under our wings but at this point, there's a massive influx of non-PvP crowd scattering to the four winds.

I'd like to hear some perspectives on how the "refugees" are dealt with. Where do they go? Who takes them in? Are they looking to learn to PvP, or are they looking for green pastures to let the Mackinaws graze?

Luckily I'm not in a leadership position; because personally, ex-wartarget or affiliated is still wartarget in my book. Will remain so until things quiet down. It probably takes a better person than me to harbour those who would burn the universe but then suddenly had second thoughts about it - at gunpoint.

Then again I never said I was a nice person.

What's your take on it, gentlemen?

My take on this is, I don't envy your position.

Considering how the ranks of CFC swelled by "selling" nullbearing opportunities to noobs, and only requiring them to be an F1 monkey in the old N+1 fleet doctrines (now smashed by what is called "Fozzie SOV"), I can understand the issue you face.

On the other hand, there is an issue of old that might resurface.

Before goons, it was hard for noobs and players whose game play was not PVP at the core if it (builders, farmers, etc.) to get out of highsec. Back around 2009 - 2011 a very common trope was for players to "grind for 2 years amassing ISK and SP so I can finally go to nullsec". The real end result was players being "broken" into highsec grindbears (incursions didn't help the matter) or just plain getting bored out of the game. One day those same farmers/mission grinders you see every day don't show up, and you never see them again.
(Maybe they died of boredom at their keyboard? )
And the old perceptions around SP accumulation were incorrect, horribly so, but "stuck". I think CCP has worked hard to combat this, starting with Mastery Tabs, and adding re-spec, and now SP injection (love it or hate it, it would have solved this "play for 2 years then die of boredom in highsec" problem if they did it in 2008). The genius of the SP system was grossly overlooked and the foolishness of those adhering to it would be their demise.

This perception had a reason: back then a lot of recruitment adds were "20 Million SP at least or GTFO!". It was goons who actually had the reputation of being newbro friendly and this helped them significantly. The "XX amount of 10s of millions of SP or don't apply" corporations found themselves outnumbered. And newbros in good fleet doctrines is nothing to laugh at. It don't matter how great your PWNmobile is, if you are outnumbered you're going down.

And let is not forget, SRP. It seems foolish after a while to end up in fleets where you get tossed into a ship grinder by bad tactics and you still have to find time to earn the ISK yourself to even have a ship at all.

Hopefully the new mechanics means we don't go back to "20M SP or GTFO" and the ways of olde: getting bored out of the game and having to grind for your own destruction. While I was always "Grrr goons", even I had to submit that they gave noobs a much friendlier path in this game than the "U'R NOT LEET GTFO" attitude that was the norm in the past. But now I think everybody from CCP to the players who care about this game have seen how these past attitudes mean doom for the game and have sought to combat it.

12 people in IWI were accused of RMT, the entire site must not be legit.

So if 12 people in SMA were accused of botting or RMT-ing, all of SMA should be called cheaters and banned, right Luke?

People making ISK legitimately (like IWI) but then using it to RMT has always been ban-able. How is that news to you?

So basically what we have now is you couldn't prove to anyone that IWI has an 'unfair advantage' in making isk, and knowing you lost that fight you've turned to trying to pin RMT on an entire organization by the actions of a few line members?

Do you ever give up on the spin and rhetoric? Your level of stubbornness indicates my father must be running your account.