Market Discussions

EDIT: Offer has been taken up.

Introduction:

I've found a way to double all my liquid isk on patch-day. I want to get as much liquid isk as I can so that I can multiply it all. The thing I found is not patch speculation, it is just simple patch mechanics. It does not rely on demand, it does not rely on supply, it does not rely on the market at all. The only thing that can interfere is competition, and even then, all it can do is delay my cashing out. Competition is easy to spot, and there are no signs of competition right now (though that is probably just people being smart and not showing their cards 7 days ahead of time).

Simply, it pretty much is just every bit of liquid isk I have before patch-night will be multiplied post-patch. Complicated, every bit of liquid isk I have before patch-night will be multiplied post-patch, and out of it I will be able to withdraw 50bil per post-patch day that I log on. Again, independent of market forces.

Yes, this sounds ridiculous. Yes, I have checked it, both in theory, and in-game. No, I'm not going to talk about the method any more than I just did.




Meat of the post:

I would like more isk. I am liquidating everything that is not characters. That leaves me with nothing, other than characters, to use as collateral.
I use all the characters that I have, and I would resume using them after the patch happens. Hence, instead of just melting them down, selling them at 5.5mil sp, and then re-making them, I would like to simply pawn/collateral them, and buy them back post-patch.
I am looking for something of the kind where I transfer all these alts pre-patch for some figure (say, 250bil), I do my patch magic, and post-patch I buy them all back for some much larger figure (say, 450bil).

List of alts that I want to turn liquid. I will naturally provide further details if there is interest. Note that they all have Cyber V and +5s:

1. 9 x 5.6mil sp
2. 3 x 8.5mil sp
3. 9 x 10.1mil sp
4. 2 x 17.7mil sp
5. 1 x 25.4mil sp (JF)
6. 1 x 63.2mil sp (sub-cap PvP)
7. 1x 14.6mil sp (BR / DST alt ; doesn't have +5s, but has emotional attachment due to KB)

I've been informed that 5.5mil sp Cyber V, +5s, characters are going for ~4bil on the bazaar. With that in mind, base price of the characters:

1. 9 x 3.1bil
2. 3 x 7.1bil
3. 9 x 8.8bil
4. 2 x 16.7bil
5. 1 x 24.7bil
6. 1 x 64bil
7. 1 x 13.5bil

And price I'd have to pay to re-inject them:

1. 9 x 7.2bil
2. 3 x 11.8bil
3. 9 x 14.3bil
4. 2 x 26.3bil
5. 1 x 38.4bil
6. 1 x 104.9bil
7. 1 x 21.4bil

Having quickly calculated that, the minimum I'd be looking at is actually the exact example I used earlier. I get 250bil pre-patch, and I pay 450bil post-patch to get them back. I would obviously love to get more than 250bil, but that would be asking for an undercollateralized loan.
I can buy all these characters back for the high value as early as May 4th. Likely earlier, but I don't want to take any risks.

Methods of carrying this out? Well, there's two I've come up with:

• I pawn these characters. Someone buys them for 250bil, then sells them back to me for 450bil.
• I use these characters as collateral for a loan. Someone loans me 250bil, I transfer these characters to a 3rd party, pay the 3rd party 1 month of PLEX costs, I return the loan post-patch with 200bil interest, I get the characters back from the 3rd party.

As far as I can tell, both methods are equivalent for me. I like the word "collateralized loan" more than "pawn", but I don't care either way.



Personal background:

What I'm probably best-known for right now is crashing the T3 sub Jita market for about 2 months now. I've had 2-3 days worth of daily bought value of every T3 sub up as buy orders in Jita for quite a while now, shutting most other producers out of Jita. Many people can attest to this. Before I found this patch-trick, I was getting ready to start doing the same thing for T3 destroyers. I'm the guy that, every time someone asks "Who's dumping T3 sub prices like this?", links to a terrible altervista.org website.
This is why I actually need all those characters (minus the PvP one), and this is why I dare hint that giving me an undercollateralized loan would be okay.

I stopped producing yesterday, and as of this morning I'm starting to relist my existing stock at lower and lower prices, to get it all to sell before the patch hits.

I've actually been around for much longer than 2 months. It's just that in the past, whenever I'd flood some part of the market like this, eventually someone would message me in game and we'd come to some sort of deal where they'd 0.01isk for me. If anyone remembers RUSROG from Hard Knocks (note, I never actually saw his forum thread, only his full API key), I was the thing he was investing in.

I like walks by the beach, watching the sun set, and shitposting. You can trace back my shitposting at least two years on /r/eve, and people on Slack can attest that I've also started shitposting there this year.
I am never, ever, giving up this character name, not in a million years. Same with my PvP alt I'm wanting to pawn. If someone steals that alt, I'll have a new long-term goal in Eve.

I feel like you have overvalued your toons.

I can lend you 30bil for your subcap pvp toon.

Maybe. I valued them at extraction profit + 4bil once they reached 5.5mil sp. I was advised that that was an approximately fair evaluation. If that's wrong, that's wrong, and I'll get less isk out of it.

Though that particular toon... I'm going to need a 3rd party :).

Confirming a private discussion on slack with OP regarding this proposal.

I valued stripped alts at 3.5-4b @ 5m SP based upon current bazaar prices (utility alts with +5s and optimised mapping tend to get closer to 4b). See examples: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5. Prices have settled around this level since Injector/Extractors were introduced and the market remains reasonably strong as people are investing in faming alts.

Can't speak as to the investment proposal itself, but if anyone has some ISK to invest and is willing to accept characters as collateral this might be worth a look.

Value of collateral
In total you have 26 characters.
Combined, they have a total of 305.1 million SP. Considering you are unable to extract up until the 5.5m SP limit, that would be a reduction of 143m SP. Seeing as you can only extract in batches of 500k, I am going to roughly estimate the SP you will have left to extract is about 160million.

The current prices of extractors are 240m
The current prices of injectors are 640m

Assuming you are extracting - you will be paying 240m to get 640m so a profit of 400m per 500k
To compensate for changes in the market and fees, I will be using 0.85* of the ISK gained extracting as value, this leaves us with 340m per 500k or 680m per 1M sp.
To be generous, I'll round that to 700m.
With 160m of SP to extract we are going to be obtaining an amount of 112B isk. This means that after liquidating your characters, I will have 112b and 29 characters with 5.5m SP. This leaves me with an amount of 138B to still be collaterized (250-112), I'll confirm to see I haven't miscalculated anything.

The base price of your 5.5m characters is quite irrelevant to me as an investor that wants their money back ASAP, but I'm going to assume that I can pawn them off for 1b profit each taking into account the 2 plex transfer cost. I am now out 109billion ISK.

Obviously, extracting characters is not the best way to recoup my losses, but as a potential investor - I do not want to have to individually sell 29 characters. Even if I was to do so, I'm pretty sure I would not be able to close the 109b difference that remains to be filled by selling.


Initial investment
Holding 29 characters as collateral requires me to pay an amount of 9.5 billion in plex fees per month.
Transferring 29 characters will cost you roughly 30b and another 30b to get them back. Although, the seller is required to pay the fee as per the CCP rules so you'd have to work around that. I'm just going to assume you'll be paying all the fees the investor has to deal with.
Having said that, you will be paying an initial amount of 30b and then an additional 9b per month. At the end, you'll pay another 30b. This leaves us with 69b of any profits you make to simply "disappear"


Third party
To secure both you and the investor, you wil have to find a third party you're both willing to work with. Additionally, this third party must agree with holding this kind of collateral. You would obviously have to do so before the patch, which is quite a short time-frame. Especially seeing as you would have a lot to explain and confirm - not to take into account the 30 hour delay to transfer all your characters to different accounts.



All in all, I can't judge the legitimacy of your loan, although - hopefully this post has made you understand how complex it is to do this. You are offering great returns, which makes me wonder how you'll be able to pay off everything taking into account the above costs. Your profit margins would need to be extremely, which makes me wonder about what kind of "thing" you found capable of netting such returns without it being classified as an exploit. Not to mention that IF anything falls through in your investment, you will be down at least 70b in plex fees that cannot be recouped.


If I miscalculated or am wrong regarding something, please point it out to me and I'll go over it again.

I can and will halve the valuation then. I don't like risk. Give me some time to find time, and to seek opinions.

I'd fill this for around extraction price, plus a bit more for the husks, give me a shout.

30bil still stands for that pvp toon. I'm fine with using a third party.

Details regarding transfer and subscription fees are still a bit murky to me. If you are happy to accept 30bil, mail me regarding details

I can't comment on the OP's business plans, as I don't know what it is. But I can confirm from transaction records that he has indeed been dumping T3 subs of many varieties in Jita, which I'm personally very happy with.

10/10