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[IGS] Passive Aggression Pact

Author
Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2016-04-21 18:17:56 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
By the way, if someone has ideas for a better standard reply by all means share. My OP may be too provocative, and I'm willing to consider and promote an alternative phrasing.


Every capsuleer has a choice.

Interact or not.

Answer or not.

Discuss or not.

If someone(s) spent months trying to change YOU from who you were to who they wanted you to be, you .. well.

The Empire has gotten quite bit of flack for this sort of thing.


"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."

John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#22 - 2016-04-21 18:23:41 UTC
Arista Shahni wrote:

Interact or not.

Answer or not.

Discuss or not.



That is obviously to hard.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#23 - 2016-04-21 18:26:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rinai Vero
Nobody has to force me to change. I make it a point to grow and adapt as the world changes around me.

Y'know, since I'm a creature of pure consciousness unbound by mortal flesh and everything...
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#24 - 2016-04-21 18:27:36 UTC
John Revenent wrote:
Arista Shahni wrote:

Interact or not.

Answer or not.

Discuss or not.



That is obviously to hard.


Exactly. Hence this thread.
Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2016-04-21 18:42:24 UTC
As impossible as it may seem. I am friendly with many Capsuleers others find unbearable. Having a psychological view of it makes many things much clearer.

However, I am oathbound to speak nothing else.

"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."

Karina Ivanovich
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2016-04-21 18:51:12 UTC
Words are spoken by many.
Yet voices often make no sound.
The ears of the witness can be closed.
But you cannot shut the mouth of the stubborn.

Is is best to stifle others thoughts?
Is it worth the effort to dismember the outcast?
Do we make a pariah of ourselves?

I know not.
I shall wait and see.

Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.

Yarosara Ruil
#27 - 2016-04-21 19:19:12 UTC
I'm just a sock puppet, so what do I know, right?

Might as well block every criminal, pirate and scum!
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#28 - 2016-04-21 19:44:45 UTC
Or, y'know... chill out?
Yarosara Ruil
#29 - 2016-04-21 19:45:58 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Or, y'know... chill out?


Nonsense! We must go to the extreme! All or nothing!
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#30 - 2016-04-21 22:05:08 UTC
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Isn't that some Acurian noodle or something?

It is, I had some for lunch so that's where the word came from.

Would you say it was a... Freudian slurp?

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#31 - 2016-04-21 22:16:21 UTC
John Revenent wrote:
Well don't expect to garner any respect from others outside this little agreement.


Oh my, have I put my until now pristine reputation at risk? /swoons
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#32 - 2016-04-22 00:01:55 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
John Revenent wrote:
Well don't expect to garner any respect from others outside this little agreement.


Oh my, have I put my until now pristine reputation at risk? /swoons


I can see this type behavior is a normality for you. Noted.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2016-04-22 00:16:33 UTC
I find it interesting Ms. Vero that you and Mr. Bete and Mr. Ixiris, paragons of Gallente concepts of "freedom," are so quick to censor Ms. Kim.

Yes, she is contrary. Yes, she is argumentative. Yes she is almost delusional at times, especially in her devotion to what she sees as "loyalty to the State." Yes she is free from the burden of facts.

But if we censor or remove her today, who will be censored or removed tomorrow? Nauplius? His words are unpopular. Mizhara Del'thul or Utari Onzo? They're pretty unmovable in their viewpoints. Me? You?

This isn't a popularity contest. This is a forum for the free exchange of ideas. If Amarr loyalists can sit here and tolerate Sanist heretics, you can sit here and stomach Diana Kim.

The IGS has seen far worse personalities and abuses of rhetoric over the years. If you want to ignore her, that's fine. But for this place to have any meaning, even the most vapid of pilots must be able to express themselves here.

There is nothing passive in your aggression.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Karina Ivanovich
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2016-04-22 00:46:06 UTC
Do we not all love and hate? Why is it that we love to hate one another and hate to love the things that matter? It is because man is a race ruled by lust, fear and violence. To show compassion is to become disassociated from the majority of humanity. To show a hint of kindness is to show weakness. And weakness, in a dog eat dog world, is to become the proverbial bone to be chewed upon. Ask not and ye shall receive, take and it shall be yours, lie and the door shall be opened to you.

What do we truly know of our fellow man? We know hair and skin color, the way they walk and carry themselves and the style of clothing they like to wear. For those that we are closer to, such as work colleges or casual acquaintances, we know certain mannerisms and speech patterns and musical preferences. From our close friends and family members we know of hobbies and foods they enjoy, and personal feelings. But, beyond the superficial details, do we ever truly know someone?

Is the smile genuine on his face? Does she truly enjoy reading fantasy novels? Does she really believe in a higher power? Does he actually feel alright? Do they mean it when they say that they "are fine"? We only know what people choose to tell us. Yet eyes can lie to us, as do people.

And what do we really know of ourselves? If I ask who you really are; will you have an answer? I know that I do not. That fact is troubling. If our fellow man cannot identify himself than what do we know of the world around us?


To end is permanent.
To begin is indefinite.
To tolerate is eternal.

I rue the day I talk of dithers,
Wandering from souls without.
But now I speak unto the listeners.
Telling them about my lies.
I tell them not to trust my speaking.
A riddle left unto their eyes.
The liar speaks but spouts out answers.
Can we trust the self made prize?

Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2016-04-22 01:11:41 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Isn't that some Acurian noodle or something?

It is, I had some for lunch so that's where the word came from.

Would you say it was a... Freudian slurp?


What is a 'Freudian'? Is it named after a person?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#36 - 2016-04-22 01:20:14 UTC
It's a sub conscience thought you say out loud without thinking about it. Dunno where the name came from....
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2016-04-22 01:22:47 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
It's a sub conscience thought you say out loud without thinking about it. Dunno where the name came from....


Huh. So, it's a pre-Dark Age word then.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#38 - 2016-04-22 02:45:52 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
I find it interesting Ms. Vero that you and Mr. Bete and Mr. Ixiris, paragons of Gallente concepts of "freedom," are so quick to censor Ms. Kim.


Mssr. Mokk, let me be the first to thank you for bringing up the freedom of speech and censorship ramifications of the Pact. What you've brought up may be the only thing worth discussing in this thread, my OP included!

The fact is that this isn't a "censorship" issue at all. We don't have any authority over anyone. We can't force them to think or speak any particular way.

It has been tradition as old as the concept of freedom of speech that for there to be any room for productive dialogue there must be moderation. No society can function if every time its members attempt to discuss an issue of importance they allow one extreme individual to stand in the middle screaming over a personal grudge. If the IGS were any Gallente local assembly, or a Caldari corporate meeting, or an Amarr congregation, or a Matari tribal council... any person acting as our troll acts would have been kindly (or not, depending) escorted out long ago.

But, the IGS can't practically enforce such standards of common decency through its authorities.

What we rely on in this community more than anything else is self moderation. When an individual steps out of line from the extremely broad and generally permissive mainstream of the IGS, the rest of the community respond by expressing their disapproval. Individuals at that point either choose to moderate themselves, or not. We have all experienced this process, and most of us have enough respect for each other to keep ourselves in check most of the time.

One person in particular has decided to cast themselves in almost total opposition to that process, and utterly refuses to moderate herself. Almost everyone has pleaded that this person participate in a manner in which she expresses her views without constantly injecting her personal vendettas into unrelated discussions.

Why should such behavior not be responded to as bluntly and dismissively as possible after all this time?
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2016-04-22 03:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
Mr. Mokk, if you believe that proponents of freedom believe in absolute freedom, or are opposed to tthe rule of law, you'd be committing the same error as the individual in question. Freedom, in fact, cannot exist without structures to support and protect it. Societies without such protections inevitably fall prey to people who abuse the lack of consequences, which is why anarchy is inherently unstable and untenable. Meaningful human interaction requires a specific amount of structure. Too much and you stifle the creative process, but too little and you are inevitably stifled yourself by whoever can shout the loudest.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Karina Ivanovich
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2016-04-22 03:49:13 UTC
Despite our factions disagreements, I cannot find fault with anything Mr Ixiris has stated. Structure does lead to freedom. And while too much freedom can be detrimental, within the confines of a well structured society, it can lead to a myriad of societal boons.

Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.

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